A case for Trump supporters

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ericgtr12

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I get that Trump's supporters are people we disagree with on almost every level and the last four years with him as president have been painful to say the least but it's also an opportunity for us to turn the page.

When I think back to Obama and how much so many of us in the country loved him, if he had lost after his first term it would've been a serious blow for many and to have those who opposed him pouring salt into the wounds would've made it so much harder. What separates us from Trumpism is empathy, IMO lacking it is one of their worst attributes.

We are better than that and as a result can rise above the gutter tactics. I would love to go back through every PRSI thread where the said "Trump landslide!!" and rub it in their faces, the temptation is palpable but have made a personal decision to just let that go. Their guy lost and it sucks but more than 70 million Americans still voted for him and if we really want to end the division it seems like we should try to look for areas where we agree to really move forward.

Just my .02
 
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lizkat

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I get that Trump's supporters are people we disagree with on almost every level and the last four years with him as president have been painful to say the least but it's also an opportunity for us to turn the page.

When I think back to Obama and how much so many of us in the country loved him, if he had lost after his first term it would've been a serious blow for many and to have those who opposed him pouring salt into the wounds would've made it so much harder. What separates us from Trumpism is empathy, IMO lacking it is one of their worst attributes.

We are better than that and as a result can rise above the gutter tactics. I would love to go back through every PRSI thread where the said "Trump landslide!!" and rub it in their faces, the temptation is palpable but have made a personal decision to just let that go. Their guy lost and it sucks but more than 70 million Americans still voted for him and if we really want to end the division it seems like we should try to look for areas where we agree to really move forward.

Just my .02

Politico has run a series following the House re-election campaign of former CIA analysit Elissa Slotkin who represents the 8th district of Michigan. In the last piece in the series she talks about divisions within the Democrats, and about how Dems might need to rethink their attitude towards Americans who have voted for Trump, simply because of the evidence that four years of his presidency did not alter their view of "the other side" and that the Dems may seem too patronizing, condescending, which will never raise the count of never-Trumpers or boost the appeal of the Democratic Party to people who are Trump fans today.


Slotkin admits it's problematic that Trump fans don't care that Trump speaks more than harshly of his perceived enemies, but her point is that Democrats keep forgetting a critical point, that Trump does not talk down to his fans:

“It’s not just that he eats cheeseburgers at a big celebratory dinner. It’s not just that he does things that the common man can kind of appreciate. And it’s not even because he uses kind of simplistic language—he doesn’t use complicated, wonky language, the way a lot of Democrats do,” Slotkin said. “We sometimes make people feel like they aren’t conscientious enough. They aren’t thoughtful enough. They aren’t ‘woke’ enough. They aren’t smart enough or educated enough to just understand what’s good for them. … It’s talking down to people. It’s alienating them. And there’s just certain voters who feel so distant from the political process—it’s not their life, it’s not their world. They hate it. They don’t like all that politics stuff. Trump speaks to them, because he includes them.”​
Of course it's hard to remember that when someone just called you a moron on Twitter bc you posted a link to a piece about climate change and its threats to the whole planet. It's also hard to see where just not talking down to a bunch of white supremacists is going to bring them on board the idea that we're all in the same boat vis a vis oligarchic capitalism, which is what Trump practices with his advisors and most of the Congress when he's not having a rally and slurring the free press.

But yeah it could be time to leave the extreme polarization behind in the Biden era. I'm sure the righties will say "you go first!"
 

Chew Toy McCoy

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Trumps supposed wins for his supporters came in the form of short term band-aides. I believe even Trump has said he really doesn't care about what happens 5 years from now or 10 or more. Democrats need to pass polices that help everyone and just as importantly stop responding to "Socialists!" with "No we're not". Stay focused on the specific policies and how they will help most Americans and avoid demonizing the rich in the explanation.

I think the hardest thing of trying mentally mend things with Trump supporters is they are a cult and only care about themselves, period. I don't even consider them Republicans because Trump isn't. They are the least patriotic group of people I've ever seen while claiming they are the most. They've destroyed the Republican party and what the real definition of a patriot is. For me personally, it's going to take a long time to see them as just any American with problems.

I'm fine with leaving out the gutter politics as long as Democrats actually get things done. If it's just about being compassionate while still yielding to blind obstruction walls I'm not interested.
 

lizkat

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Then there's always the chance that Trump fans actually understand they have a problem.

OK then.jpg
 

Alli

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I’m actually waiting to see what the never-Trump Republicans do next. Their party is a mess, and unless they start working hard to win it back, they will need to create a new Party of Lincoln.
 

Chew Toy McCoy

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I’m actually waiting to see what the never-Trump Republicans do next. Their party is a mess, and unless they start working hard to win it back, they will need to create a new Party of Lincoln.
When most people thought Hillary was going to win they also thought that meant the Republican Party was in shambles and they lost their appeal. They would have to figure out how they could win people back. Then Trump came along and unfortunately they decided Trump’s vile decisiveness and lies is their new appeal. I think he is a cancer that’s going to way outlast his presidency and possibly be a fatal blow to the party. He’s not too far off from what the party was already degenerating to. He just took it to a much higher level.

I think one of the main differences between the left and the right is they both know the main problem is our 2 party system that does very little for the common citizen who isn’t rich, but the right is way to easy to persuade back to it’s entirely democrats’ fault and believe every hyperbole said about them. People on the left know it’s also the democrat politicians who lack the will and courage to get their agenda passed. It’s not all the republicans fault.
 

JayMysteri0

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I rest my case

☝️ That right there epitomizes why 45 has supporters. They are just like him. If they aren't the only ones winning, the contest was unfair. It's always the fault of others if they aren't winning, so it's time to go out, blame others, and accuse them of the very things they do. They will whine if others succeed where they don't & create any number of fictions why, after screaming others want "participation awards" for pointing out the basic imbalances intentionally built into our society.

Remember, it took until just recently for the news media to finally acknowledge what some of these nutjobs are, NOT the patriotic romantic sounding 'militia' for their violent acts, but finally the well earned "domestic terrorist". The same label that was quickly tried & trotted out for groups that only came into being with this administration ANTIFA & BLM.

This group hates hearing about their proximity & ties to racism, but then there's always racist crap eventually involved. Pretending there isn't is just as galling, as the racism embraced by many.


For me, that sums it up best. I don't want to hear "I'm not a racist", if you don't have an issue with the racism happily displayed & embraced by the group's core & very subject. If you don't have an issue with & want more of it, F- you!

“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.” -John Stuart Mill
 
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Scepticalscribe

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I get that Trump's supporters are people we disagree with on almost every level and the last four years with him as president have been painful to say the least but it's also an opportunity for us to turn the page.

When I think back to Obama and how much so many of us in the country loved him, if he had lost after his first term it would've been a serious blow for many and to have those who opposed him pouring salt into the wounds would've made it so much harder. What separates us from Trumpism is empathy, IMO lacking it is one of their worst attributes.

We are better than that and as a result can rise above the gutter tactics. I would love to go back through every PRSI thread where the said "Trump landslide!!" and rub it in their faces, the temptation is palpable but have made a personal decision to just let that go. Their guy lost and it sucks but more than 70 million Americans still voted for him and if we really want to end the division it seems like we should try to look for areas where we agree to really move forward.

Just my .02

But, but, but,

The US has never been whole, because of the existential fault line of race on which the country - while claiming to treat "all men equally" - has been constructed.

And it cannot be whole, not just until those fundamental founding contradictions - that all men are created equal but some aren't created equal, because some are created more equal than others - are acknowledged, recognised and resolved, but also until the defining raison d'être of one of the two main parties, which is to maintain and sustain these structured inequalities, is addressed.

And it is not possible to turn such a page, because of the deeply entrenched desire of those on the right to continue to deny basic civil and human rights - and to deprive them of what rights (electoral, economic, reproductive, legal) they do have - to the poor, people of colour, and women.

This is not about standard political stuff such as "opening up to China", or "stopping Russia", or projecting power somewhere, or, even climate change.

Instead, this is existential stuff, which means that there is a huge difference between how the two main political parties view the basics, the fundamental stuff that determines how and why one's life is different from the opportunity, autonomy, possibility, accorded to the "default desirable standard setting" (i.e. middle class, white, male), and whether those differences are further entrenched or whether attempts are made to ameliorate - if not actually address and change - them: Do people of colour have the right to vote without being frustrated, hobbled, obstructed, in their attempts to do so? Do women have reproductive autonomy and economic independence? Can the poor dare to hope that their lives can improve? Is biology (re ethnicity and gender) and socio-economic circumstance destiny, or can politics be a means to being about progressive social and political change?
 

ericgtr12

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I rest my case

☝️ That right there epitomizes why 45 has supporters. They are just like him. If they aren't the only ones winning, the contest was unfair. It's always the fault of others if they aren't winning, so it's time to go out, blame others, and accuse them of the very things they do. They will whine if others succeed where they don't & create any number of fictions why, after screaming others want "participation awards" for pointing out the basic imbalances intentionally built into our society.

Remember, it took until just recently for the news media to finally acknowledge what some of these nutjobs are, NOT the patriotic romantic sounding 'militia' for their violent acts, but finally the well earned "domestic terrorist". The same label that was quickly tried & trotted out for groups that only came into being with this administration ANTIFA & BLM.

This group hates hearing about their proximity & ties to racism, but then there's always racist crap eventually involved. Pretending there isn't is just as galling, as the racism embraced by many.


For me, that sums it up best. I don't want to hear "I'm not a racist", if you don't have an issue with the racism happily displayed & embraced by the group's core & very subject. If you don't have an issue with & want more of it, F- you!
If we look at the BLM protest (which almost all were peaceful) but with a focus on the looting, as the media would turn their camera to them, would we say that's a fair representation of the 76+ million people who voted for Biden?

In the same way it's not fair is it to peg Trump's 70+ million votes to these extremists either. In the bigger picture a lot of moderates voted on both sides and there were many former Obama supporters that made the switch to Trump in 2016 as well. To completely dismiss all of them as racists would be unwise, Biden got this and it's likely the reason he won by reaching out to everyone on both sides.
 

SuperMatt

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I saw they were in my neighborhood so I didn’t venture out, but I found some livestreams on Twitch to monitor things. Something said by a random white guy (no mask) with a megaphone who appeared to be a leader: “When they finish counting ALL the votes, Trump will have 80 million and win 4 more years!” And the crowd of white men wearing red hats (and no masks) cheered. They harassed basically anybody that wandered by, shouted anti-gay slurs, etc,etc. It was sad and pathetic really.
 

SuperMatt

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If we look at the BLM protest (which almost all were peaceful) but with a focus on the looting, as the media would turn their camera to them, would we say that's a fair representation of the 76+ million people who voted for Biden?

In the same way it's not fair is it to peg Trump's 70+ million votes to these extremists either. In the bigger picture a lot of moderates voted on both sides and there were many former Obama supporters that made the switch to Trump in 2016 as well. To completely dismiss all of them as racists would be unwise, Biden got this and it's likely the reason he won by reaching out to everyone on both sides.
I don’t want to give his voters too many excuses. I mean, people who supported Hitler... could they say “I have nothing against Jews, but I just like his mustache!” This man ripped babies from their mothers. But that’s ok because they were from Mexico or Guatemala?

There is no question about who Trump is in 2020. If you voted for him, then you are OK with that. Sorry, that means I’m not ok with you.
 

JayMysteri0

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If we look at the BLM protest (which almost all were peaceful) but with a focus on the looting, as the media would turn their camera to them, would we say that's a fair representation of the 76+ million people who voted for Biden?

In the same way it's not fair is it to peg Trump's 70+ million votes to these extremists either. In the bigger picture a lot of moderates voted on both sides and there were many former Obama supporters that made the switch to Trump in 2016 as well. To completely dismiss all of them as racists would be unwise, Biden got this and it's likely the reason he won by reaching out to everyone on both sides.
It's still IGNORING a CORE issue though.

"Look I know you're racist or don't have an issue with racism, but can't we all get along?" 😡

Modern society for the most part isn't having that shit. Let them squirm from the public condemnation. Yes it emboldens the older set in their ways group, but they are shrinking in numbers. They are called out for being fringe, nut jobs, q fans, and such.

Yes for personal short term gain, some MIGHT. But when offered in 2016, those same Obama supporters went with the racists. That's the revelation of priorities. If racism isn't a dealbreaker for one, it's a dealbreaker for those like me. You can try for those who might stay with, and those who have stayed with you.

It isn't a matter of 'dismissing' them as racists, it's understanding that they are racists, and they will NEVER be the core support that dem party has literally built & relied on like they have with Black women.

It's a matter of accepting that, and realizing that group is NOT a focus. If it's in their best short term interests, they will ride along. Should they be ignored? I'm saying they should NEVER be coddled at the expense of those who brought you to the dance. You know that group of people are going to kick you to the curb at the first utterance of "Look at them over there, why do they have that?"
 

Edd

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My $ is on forcing the change with the altering demographics hopefully. AZ going blue was awesome. If TX does the same within 10 years that’ll be really nice to see. FLA is fucking hopeless.

Getting through to these guys with their heads full of OAN and Parler ain’t happening.
 

SuperMatt

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My $ is on forcing the change with the altering demographics hopefully. AZ going blue was awesome. If TX does the same within 10 years that’ll be really nice to see. FLA is fucking hopeless.

Getting through to these guys with their heads full of OAN and Parler ain’t happening.
There are a number of northern states that are mostly white but that formerly voted Democrat most of the time. With union jobs going away, and Trump appealing directly to racial animus, some of those states could flip red in 10 years too. That being said, I don’t think it will be enough to overcome a blue Texas.
 

Alli

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FLA is fucking hopeless.
I have hope for Florida. Especially as more of my family moves there. My mother, uncle and aunt live in the one county that voted blue. My brother and sister-in-law are in the next county over. My daughter is moving down (from NYC) in January. I think of it like packing the courts. Pack the state!
 

Huntn

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I get that Trump's supporters are people we disagree with on almost every level and the last four years with him as president have been painful to say the least but it's also an opportunity for us to turn the page.

When I think back to Obama and how much so many of us in the country loved him, if he had lost after his first term it would've been a serious blow for many and to have those who opposed him pouring salt into the wounds would've made it so much harder. What separates us from Trumpism is empathy, IMO lacking it is one of their worst attributes.

We are better than that and as a result can rise above the gutter tactics. I would love to go back through every PRSI thread where the said "Trump landslide!!" and rub it in their faces, the temptation is palpable but have made a personal decision to just let that go. Their guy lost and it sucks but more than 70 million Americans still voted for him and if we really want to end the division it seems like we should try to look for areas where we agree to really move forward.

Just my .02
Not to be a naysayer but how does that work exactly? Let’s say we have, I’ll be generous, we agree on 70%, what happens to the 30% we disagree on if that 30% represents intolerance for corruption, insistence on level playing fields, making it easy to vote, liberty and equal opportunity for all, a standard for POTUS that would never allow an immoral conman to assume the position, etc? That’s one hell of a 30%.

Keep in mind that Trump supporters are ludicrous so previous standards for what qualifies as presidential are in the trash if this psychology continues to prevail, we’ll all suffer for it. You don’t have to ask why I’m depressed, because I see stupid prevailing. I’ll give you odds that the USA will either fail or possibly destroy itself. That’s how bad I think it could be if this kind of vote tallies are indicative of our future. 😢

And no I don’t blame Trump, as I said in this forum, he is the symptom of a serious illness that has either infected millions in this country, or has always existed, and brought to the surface with the right triggers.

I’d liken it to difficulty dealing with reality, or a degree of gullibility where their prejudices and selfishness get the better of them, allowing an incompetent sociopath get in their head, scramble common sense, and appeal to their selfishness even if it’s nonsensical Koolaid they are drinking. That becomes the new reality to them. :oops:

This btw is the one area where Trump’s displays competence, sizing up suckers and playing to weaknesses and prejudices. For those who claim he is brilliant, his suckers might think that, but the rest of us see his transparency plain as day, and wonder what the fuck is wrong with the rest of you? A reason to be scared.

Because even if they are a minority, 70 million who vote for corruption is too much of a drag on a healthy prosperous civilization, I’ll call it the Thump Effect or the real TDS that effects Trump supporters, not Trump detractors, unless miraculously a lot of people wake up, regain their senses, or suddenly gain IQ. Don’t hold your breath. Hope for the best, brace for the worst.
 

ericgtr12

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It's still IGNORING a CORE issue though.

"Look I know you're racist or don't have an issue with racism, but can't we all get along?" 😡

Modern society for the most part isn't having that shit. Let them squirm from the public condemnation. Yes it emboldens the older set in their ways group, but they are shrinking in numbers. They are called out for being fringe, nut jobs, q fans, and such.

Yes for personal short term gain, some MIGHT. But when offered in 2016, those same Obama supporters went with the racists. That's the revelation of priorities. If racism isn't a dealbreaker for one, it's a dealbreaker for those like me. You can try for those who might stay with, and those who have stayed with you.

It isn't a matter of 'dismissing' them as racists, it's understanding that they are racists, and they will NEVER be the core support that dem party has literally built & relied on like they have with Black women.

It's a matter of accepting that, and realizing that group is NOT a focus. If it's in their best short term interests, they will ride along. Should they be ignored? I'm saying they should NEVER be coddled at the expense of those who brought you to the dance. You know that group of people are going to kick you to the curb at the first utterance of "Look at them over there, why do they have that?"
That's bullshit, to simply dismiss over 70 million people as "racists" is the same as them dismissing 76 million people as Antifa. Let's get real here. I'm not saying to call this out where we see it but If we don't take off our partisan hats there will be no middle ground.
 

JayMysteri0

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That's bullshit, to simply dismiss over 70 million people as "racists" is the same as them dismissing 76 million people as Antifa. Let's get real here. I'm not saying to call this out where we see it but If we don't take off our partisan hats there will be no middle ground.
Which is why I included the picture at the end. It's literally how the phrase begins...

"I'm not saying all 45 supporters are racist..."

It isn't saying ALL 45 supporters, it isn't saying ALL 70 million people are racists.

It's saying that for ALL 70 million people racism isn't an issue for them.

Despite it being an issue for an ever growing population of the United States.

That's NOT partisan. That's reality, and that's the fear being stoked by the party of 45.

The sooner that's recognized & acknowledged, the better.

To rephrase


That group that doesn't care about you, will turn on you at the first chance. We've even seen in this group they will support a man & his party that is actively working to throw them off of needed health insurance. Because that group has brought party rhetoric over their own survival, at the benefit of those who can easily afford their own insurance. At some point it has to be realized that some groups of people will NOT accept you. Sad as it maybe, but true.

You can't help everyone, especially if they don't want to be helped. You can work with those who do share your goals to make a world that does help everyone, even those that will actively seek to stymie your efforts so that only a few they prefer are helped.
 

Huntn

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It's still IGNORING a CORE issue though.

"Look I know you're racist or don't have an issue with racism, but can't we all get along?" 😡

Modern society for the most part isn't having that shit. Let them squirm from the public condemnation. Yes it emboldens the older set in their ways group, but they are shrinking in numbers. They are called out for being fringe, nut jobs, q fans, and such.

Yes for personal short term gain, some MIGHT. But when offered in 2016, those same Obama supporters went with the racists. That's the revelation of priorities. If racism isn't a dealbreaker for one, it's a dealbreaker for those like me. You can try for those who might stay with, and those who have stayed with you.

It isn't a matter of 'dismissing' them as racists, it's understanding that they are racists, and they will NEVER be the core support that dem party has literally built & relied on like they have with Black women.

It's a matter of accepting that, and realizing that group is NOT a focus. If it's in their best short term interests, they will ride along. Should they be ignored? I'm saying they should NEVER be coddled at the expense of those who brought you to the dance. You know that group of people are going to kick you to the curb at the first utterance of "Look at them over there, why do they have that?"

That's bullshit, to simply dismiss over 70 million people as "racists" is the same as them dismissing 76 million people as Antifa. Let's get real here. I'm not saying to call this out where we see it but If we don't take off our partisan hats there will be no middle ground.
I would not call *all* people who voted for Trump racists, but racists are definitely there. And if it’s possible to not be a racist, but chose a racist leader because of perceived advantage, this might by extension qualify the individual as racist, because they support someone who is a racist, and can tolerate racist policies and actions, when it supports perceived benefit?

And if they are not racists, how about other negative labels for them, primarily ”idiot”, but “ignorant” is a possibility, or “immorally selfish”, which is not much better as in having racial blinders, so selfish they can only focus on how they think anything effects them alone, when it is built on partisan fantasies.

Finally fear of Democrat/Liberalism has become a percieved demon so bad, that they will pick anything, even the Devil who is a lying corrupt POS sociopath as long as he supports guns and is against abortion, he’s golden! :oops: Hence there is a reality perception problem.

Just a philosophical comment, an interesting point regarding Trump: Could a Sociopath who has no moral rudder other than himself, identify supporting racist ideals as being advantageous to a political career, but still not be a racist per say? In other words he sees a path and chooses it only because of a desired end?

Now, to leave philosophical behind, based on Thump’s past documented dealing with minorities in his properties, he is a racist regardless of the motivations. 👀
 

Huntn

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Which is why I included the picture at the end. It's literally how the phrase begins...

"I'm not saying all 45 supporters are racist..."

It isn't saying ALL 45 supporters, it isn't saying ALL 70 million people are racists.

It's saying that for ALL 70 million people racism isn't an issue for them.

Despite it being an issue for an ever growing population of the United States.

That's NOT partisan. That's reality, and that's the fear being stoked by the party of 45.

The sooner that's recognized & acknowledged, the better.

To rephrase


That group that doesn't care about you, will turn on you at the first chance. We've even seen in this group they will support a man & his party that is actively working to throw them off of needed health insurance. Because that group has brought party rhetoric over their own survival, at the benefit of those who can easily afford their own insurance. At some point it has to be realized that some groups of people will NOT accept you. Sad as it maybe, but true.

You can't help everyone, especially if they don't want to be helped. You can work with those who do share your goals to make a world that does help everyone, even those that will actively seek to stymie your efforts so that only a few they prefer are helped.
It's saying that for ALL 70 million people racism isn't an issue for them.

In a spectrum from willfully racist to having racist blinders, I would agree with this. The only possible excuse would be ignorance which is unlikely. Great quote in that image, but that could also qualify by extension as racism when it can be tolerated as actions by others.
 
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