A Couple Is Charged In A Deadly Fire Sparked By Their Gender Reveal

thekev

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Speaking of parents of special snowflakes…


Why even wait until they are born.

I wonder if they see why it's weird calling it a gender reveal as well. Gender historically referred to sociological aspects. As much as there are ambiguous cases, the word "sex" should be used here. It has just fallen out of favor, even in cases the word gender is not entirely correct.
 

Chew Toy McCoy

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I wonder if they see why it's weird calling it a gender reveal as well. Gender historically referred to sociological aspects. As much as there are ambiguous cases, the word "sex" should be used here. It has just fallen out of favor, even in cases the word gender is not entirely correct.

That’s very true. I imagine an absurd Monte Python type sketch where the baby pops out at some overly elaborate gender reveal party and announces it wants to be identified as something else and as the the celebration and music quickly deflates the 4th wall is broken by a bunch of militant SJWs attacking them for the sketch being highly insensitive and offensive.
 

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I wonder if they see why it's weird calling it a gender reveal as well. Gender historically referred to sociological aspects. As much as there are ambiguous cases, the word "sex" should be used here. It has just fallen out of favor, even in cases the word gender is not entirely correct.

Me, watching the cis people making their Duplo blocks takes, and their having a beef with the word “gender” and not “sex” — even though everything about the language of gender gets imposed materially onto a person from the moment of their being born. Genitals at birth don’t confer anything else about the newborn other than the series of in utero events which preceded one’s birth. The syntax and grammar of gender is what imbues a social value (and consequential weight) to those genitals, and those values get imposed by others — constantly, relentlessly, with or without consent — beginning at the moment of birth.

Anyway, cis people doing “““gender reveals”””, paradoxically, reveals how cis people who partake in and enable that conduct are Not Okay. It further reveals the extent of their insecurity and lack of self-awareness around the language of gender in ways which trans people must figure out on their own pretty hecking early in life.

With cis people who enable this 21st century fad of “gender reveals”, it’s as if they’re trying to ward off even the smallest possibility that their future kid won’t turn out to be cis like themselves. Trans people see this for what it is.
 
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thekev

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Me, watching the cis people making their Duplo blocks takes, and their having a beef with the word “gender” and not “sex” — even though everything about the language of gender gets imposed materially onto a person from the moment of their being born. Genitals at birth don’t confer anything else about the newborn other than the series of in utero events which preceded one’s birth. The syntax and grammar of gender is what imbues a social value (and consequental weight) to those genitals.

I don't mind either word or language evolution in general. I dislike the use of some words for social signaling where they reduce language clarity. I imagine it's worse for people who aren't native English speakers when they come across this stuff.

Here they don't actually mean "gender". They mean "sex", but that word has fallen out of favor, so they use "gender" everywhere. I also find it annoying when people who use the word "woman" as an adjective.


With cis people who enable this 21st century fad of “gender reveals”, it’s as if they’re trying to ward off even the smallest possibility that their future kid won’t turn out to be cis like themselves. Trans people see this for what it is.

Maybe. I'm not going to speculate on that though.
 

B S Magnet

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Here they don't actually mean "gender". They mean "sex", but that word has fallen out of favor, so they use "gender" everywhere.
Except that, as I just said, the language of gender is what gets imposed upon a newborn body by other people who are complicit in giving weight to the language of gender, and the “gender reveal” serves as a conscious statement by the expectant parents that the sex (external genitals) to be designated at birth (for this forthcoming person) is going to direct how gender shall be done, or imposed, upon that person.

Maybe. I'm not going to speculate on that though.

You don’t have to. Trans people already have.

Even the accidental cis creator of the gender reveal concept (dating to 2008) now recognizes this.
 

Chew Toy McCoy

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I take issue with insisting you use the word “they”.

I read an article recently about Halsey releasing a new album soon. She They insists you refer to her them as they and the article wrote it as such. I don’t even believe she they is are all in and she they is are just virtue signaling. To make things more confusing the word they could also refer to a group of people as well as her them. That paragraph is both difficult to write and read. Fuck her them.
 

Chew Toy McCoy

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Your grievance toward the singular they is not supported by historical use.

Frankly I don't care.

As an example "Halsey worked on the new album with Trent Reznor. They said it's the best album they've done to date."

Who is "they" in that sentence? Halsey, Trent Reznor, or both? Given her their insistance on using they I guess we should assume they refers to Halsey? Maybe I should Tweet Trent and get him to confirm he feels the new Halsey album is the best he's done to date because he was quoted as saying it. Gee, if only there was a better way that could be clarified.
 

tobefirst

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Anyway, cis people doing “““gender reveals”””, paradoxically, reveals how cis people who partake in and enable that conduct are Not Okay. It further reveals the extent of their insecurity and lack of self-awareness around the language of gender in ways which trans people must figure out on their own pretty hecking early in life.

With cis people who enable this 21st century fad of “gender reveals”, it’s as if they’re trying to ward off even the smallest possibility that their future kid won’t turn out to be cis like themselves. Trans people see this for what it is.
I think gender reveal parties are just about the stupidest thing I've ever heard of, but I think you're being more than a bit harsh here.
 

B S Magnet

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Frankly I don't care.

As an example "Halsey worked on the new album with Trent Reznor. They said it's the best album they've done to date."

Who is "they" in that sentence? Halsey, Trent Reznor, or both? Given her their insistance on using they I guess we should assume they refers to Halsey? Maybe I should Tweet Trent and get him to confirm he feels the new Halsey album is the best he's done to date because he was quoted as saying it. Gee, if only there was a better way that could be clarified.

Who hurt you?

I think gender reveal parties are just about the stupidest thing I've ever heard of, but I think you're being more than a bit harsh here.

Nah. But then again, from your vantage, you’re not going to see this stuff for what it is.
 

Chew Toy McCoy

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Who hurt you?

What's the point of calling everybody they? Seriously. Is it some kind of belief that it's going to fast-track acceptance and equality?

And I don't want to play the "I have gay friends!" card, but I was raised by a lesbian couple who have been together my entire life and I have a good friend who is in a long term relationship with a transgender woman. So that world, history, and struggles aren't completely alien to me.
 

B S Magnet

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I think you'd be better off if you learned that this is a two way street.

Here’s the thing:

Every trans person, in their own unique way, has spent some fraction of their lives trying to fit in within a cisnormative world and be placed as cis because that’s what we were told by elders to do from birth forward. In some cases, a trans person might end up having to do this twice for necessity of survival ( :raises hand: ).

On this topic, our perspective, as trans and non-binary folks, is a two-way street — where for the cis person, it really isn’t. It’s an insight cis people can never really have. Sure, they can learn about it by reading what trans and non-binary people have written, but to actually grok it? To experience it? To bear witness to it? To know it on a visceral level? Cis people will never have that. It is what it is.

What's the point of calling everybody they? Seriously. Is it some kind of belief that it's going to fast-track acceptance and equality?

I don’t know. But as a default pronoun, I refer to everyone as “they/them/their” until they specify their pronouns. It’s a healthy starting point of civility and courtesy when meeting someone new.

And I don't want to play the "I have gay friends!" card, but I was raised by a lesbian couple who have been together my entire life and I have a good friend who is in a long term relationship with a transgender woman. So that world, history, and struggles aren't completely alien to me.

Dang, you did just play the “I have gay friends!” card before a queer trans woman. Uh, congratulations? :slow clap:
 

tobefirst

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Here’s the thing:

Every trans person, in their own unique way, has spent some fraction of their lives trying to fit in within a cisnormative world and be placed as cis because that’s what we were told by elders to do from birth forward. In some cases, a trans person might end up having to do this twice for necessity of survival ( :raises hand: ).

On this topic, our perspective, as trans and non-binary folks, is a two-way street — where for the cis person, it really isn’t. It’s an insight cis people can never really have. Sure, they can learn about it by reading what trans and non-binary people have written, but to actually grok it? To experience it? To bear witness to it? To know it on a visceral level? Cis people will never have that. It is what it is.
So, you get your experience which no one else can understand, and yet you're so positive you know what other's experiences and thoughts and motives are? How does that work?

I've been to a couple of gender reveal parties and, let me tell you, the people throwing the ones I've been to were not "revealing the extent of their insecurity," nor were they "trying to ward off even the smallest possibility that their future kid won't turn out to be cis." They were excited about having a baby and sharing a part of that experience with people they care about.
 

B S Magnet

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So, you get your experience which no one else can understand,

Other trans and non-binary folks understand just fine. Cis people? Not so much.

Again, yes, you as a cis person can read and consume what trans and non-binary people are writing and creating in their the experiences of being trans, and yes, you as a cis person can try to empathize with those narratives, but this cannot nor will it ever equate to the lived experience of being placed as trans and/or non-binary in a cisnormative world (where cis people, who are valued higher than a trans person as a default starting point, will never experience the interrogations, actions, and regulatory hoops taken against us… by cis people).


and yet you're so positive you know what other's experiences and thoughts and motives are? How does that work?

I and other trans people certainly know how the average cis person, broadly speaking, behaves, acts, and reactively adjusts their behaviour around someone they know is a trans person, yes. What this means is we see you, even when you don’t see us.


I've been to a couple of gender reveal parties and, let me tell you, the people throwing the ones I've been to were not "revealing the extent of their insecurity," nor were they "trying to ward off even the smallest possibility that their future kid won't turn out to be cis." They were excited about having a baby and sharing a part of that experience with people they care about.

OK, Kevin.
 
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