AMD announces Ryzen 7000 series.

Colstan

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Team Red has just released details about their next gen CPUs, based upon the Zen 4 architecture.

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It's notable that AMD have decreased prices slightly, while Intel plans an increase. Also, the two bottom processors now have a TDP of 105w compared to 65w of its predecessor. (Comparatively, the entire Mac Studio with an M1 Max has a maximum power consumption of 115w.)

AMD is claiming an average 13% IPC increase over the 6000-series, with the 7950X delivering a 16% increase in clock speed boost over the 5950X. At Computex, AMD claimed the IPC increase would be 11%, and the 7950X boosted 200Mhz slower, leading some PC fans to amusingly claim that the company has been sandbagging about real performance.

AMD also claims that the 7600X beats the 12900K in gaming, which should make for interesting comparisons with Raptor Lake later this year. Also, rumors claim that V-Cache models of Zen 4 should be released as early as Q1 of next year, perhaps with a spoiler announcement by AMD when Intel announces 13th gen.

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The 7000 series requires DDR5 with the new AM5 platform. Seeing how both AMD and Apple are currently using a similar TSMC process (N5 vs N5P), it will be interesting to see comparisons, and whether the PC crowd is right that Apple's advantage is "just process, it's not magic", which is the excuse they have been claiming for some time.
 

Renzatic

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...and whether the PC crowd is right that Apple's advantage is "just process, it's not magic", which is the excuse they have been claiming for some time.

Apple's biggest advantage is that every component is married to the CPU, rather than being separate components. A PC can brute force it's way past it, but it'll never match Apple's architecture on raw performance per watt.
 

Nycturne

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The 7000 series requires DDR5 with the new AM5 platform. Seeing how both AMD and Apple are currently using a similar TSMC process (N5 vs N5P), it will be interesting to see comparisons, and whether the PC crowd is right that Apple's advantage is "just process, it's not magic", which is the excuse they have been claiming for some time.

It’s going to be a complicated comparison, IMO. The claim is 13% better IPC over the 5000 series, but it also adds clock speed increases to really pull out more single-core performance. AMD is going for a more Intel like approach here of more power, more performance, but seemingly still keeping things under some semblance of control. The loss of a SKU at 65W TDP is not great news on that front.

It is interesting that the TDP of the 7600X and 7700X is a little higher than the M1 Max CPU + GPU complexes. So I wouldn’t be too surprised if AMD does beat Apple here, but when you can draw nearly triple the power, it’s not so clear cut to me that it’s evidence that the engineering would be better, but rather they picked different priorities in their designs.
 

Colstan

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Apple's biggest advantage is that every component is married to the CPU, rather than being separate components. A PC can brute force it's way past it, but it'll never match Apple's architecture on raw performance per watt.
I completely agree. Having control of the entire stack, from the chips that power the I/O, all the way up to the OS and primary applications, is a huge advantage. I think it's clear that Apple is going to maintain the performance/watt advantage, not just for their SoCs, but Macs as well. I just want to see the PC fans explain that without the excuse of process advantage. I'm sure they'll find something else to blame, then go back to "but it can't play Crysis!" when nothing else works.
AMD is going for a more Intel like approach here of more power, more performance, but seemingly still keeping things under some semblance of control.
This reminds me of when Intel thought NetBurst would eventually hit 10Ghz, then they learned a hard lesson, physics is a bitch. At some point, Intel/AMD/Nvidia are going to have to deal with power consumption. With high-end Raptor Lake having an "unlimited power mode" reaching 350w, and Nvidia's top-end 4000-series rumored to reach up to 600w or more, AMD looks downright restrained. Still, this is a bad trend, one which Apple is way ahead of with the M-series.
 

Yoused

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ST: 2217 MT: 24396 CPU: 7950X

Its beats the M1 Ultra …
"Beats" may not be the right word to use here. The Ultra has a CPU clock of 3.2GHz, compared to the Ryzen 9, which clocks 4.5~5.7GHz, yet the difference in ST is about +17%, MT +5%. If we assume a middling clock speed of 5GHz, that would be 56% higher than the Ultra, which looks a lot like not actually beating it.
 

throAU

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"Beats" may not be the right word to use here. The Ultra has a CPU clock of 3.2GHz, compared to the Ryzen 9, which clocks 4.5~5.7GHz, yet the difference in ST is about +17%, MT +5%. If we assume a middling clock speed of 5GHz, that would be 56% higher than the Ultra, which looks a lot like not actually beating it.

Also, M1 ultra has been out for several months now, and Ryzen 7000 is yet to ship.
 

Cmaier

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"Beats" may not be the right word to use here. The Ultra has a CPU clock of 3.2GHz, compared to the Ryzen 9, which clocks 4.5~5.7GHz, yet the difference in ST is about +17%, MT +5%. If we assume a middling clock speed of 5GHz, that would be 56% higher than the Ultra, which looks a lot like not actually beating it.
You can always bolt a rocket engine onto the back of a Camry and beat a Ferrari in a straight drag race. Doesn’t mean its a good product.
 

KingOfPain

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You can always bolt a rocket engine onto the back of a Camry and beat a Ferrari in a straight drag race. Doesn’t mean its a good product.
Somewhat reminds of a really old joke...
Question: How fast can a Trabbi get? (Trabbi = Trabant, a really crappy car from the old GDR.)
Answer: It depends on how long the fall is. (I know it's not technically correct; the limit is always terminal velocity.)
 

theorist9

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Review of Ryzen 7000 on Anandtech:


And a cautionary comment about possible overweighting of the crypto score in Geekbench, since that score significantly benefits from the 7000's AVX-512-capability, yet most apps don't (can't?) currrenly use AVX-512.


More details on this from Anandtech:

"For our 3DPM v2.1 testing, we added in the Intel Core i9-11900K (Rocket Lake) to show performance across AVX workloads. Although Intel officially fused off the AVX2/512 extensions on Alder Lake which did cause a little controversy and gave the impression that AVX-512 on consumer platforms was dead. AMD clearly believes the opposite, as it has implemented it so that AVX-512 runs two cycles over a 256-bit wide instruction. The performance of the Ryzen 9 7950X here is phenomenal, although the Core i9-11900K which did indeed feature AVX instruction sets in the silicon, is still better than the Ryzen 5 7600X with AVX workloads."
 
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exoticspice1

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The 7950X at 65Watts in Eco mode gets a 31,000 points in Cinebench which is outstanding. Beats the M1 Ultra. Apple has catching up to do.
 

theorist9

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Using Cinebench R23 to benchmark Apple Silicon is problematic:
 

Colstan

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Do people buy macs to run cinebench?
I ran it on my Mac Pro because I was bored and had nothing better to do. I know the argument is that Cinebench is more or less based upon a real productivity application, Cinema 4D, but it's not the same. The actual problem is that there are few useful cross-platform benchmarks to compare Apple Silicon Macs to PCs, and all of the reviewers who did deep dives into the subject have left tech journalism. That leaves us with a handful of potentially flawed benchmarks and data provided by the companies, which is highly suspect by nature.

To me the horse race is mainly a curiosity, because I'm always going to have a Mac, and a lot of this is just a "my dad can beat up your dad" contest. For people who are trying to make a judgement call on making a product purchase based purely upon performance and not other aspects, if such a user actually exists in the real world, then there's not much to go on without doing their own testing on the applications they use. For everyone else, we purchase a computer, not a processor.
 

exoticspice1

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Come on guys we all love it if The 7950X ran macOS and came in a desktop Mac.

It's a killer CPU at 65 watts too.
 
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