Another mass shooting, this time in San Jose

Stephen.R

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That seemed to be the complaint of one poster at MR.

If ONLY that area hadn't been a "gun free" zone.

As if they have a frickin clue that would have made a difference.

To many of these gun over enthusiasts imagine shit does down like in a movie. They will ALWAYS see an active shooter coming, will be able to out draw someone with a gun already drawn, NOT miss, the shooter will miss, and they will actually NOT shot the wrong person who may have also been trying to "help".

FFS

More guns are the answer like more cancer is.
Wait wait wait.


You're suggesting all gun owners are not highly trained marksmen (is markswoman a word?) who can shoot a moving target amongst innocents using a hand gun with the accuracy of an Army Ranger and a mounted rifle with a scope?
 

MissNomer

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Wait wait wait.


You're suggesting all gun owners are not highly trained marksmen (is markswoman a word?) who can shoot a moving target amongst innocents using a hand gun with the accuracy of an Army Ranger and a mounted rifle with a scope?
I know, crazy innit?

What's even more scary is that even the police are required to go through annual gun training but your average gun owner has no such obligation.

And now, with the various "Stand your ground" laws, all they have to do is say "Well, I was scared" and then blast a random stranger away.
 

Stephen.R

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And now, with the various "Stand your ground" laws, all they have to do is say "Well, I was scared" and then blast a random stranger away.
Obligatory:
he's coming right for us.jpg
 

DT

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These are some great exchanges from an article about John Oliver's response to "Stand your ground" laws (original link at the bottom, some of the terrific replies posted directly below):


Guns are for paranoid pathetic scared idiots. It’s their insecurities worn on their hip for all to see. Having grown up in the woods and now the city not once have I ever thought a gun would help me out. Those morons make this country more unsafe.

In the late 90's early 00's I lived in a terrible neighborhood in Brooklyn, even then never thought a gun would help. I don’t fucking get it. I don’t know maybe if bears regularly try to break in? Although you could probably just use the spray in a safe way.

Everyone sees themselves as a quick draw master when they’d be shot down running to get the gun in the first place if anyone was really coming after them...that is, if they don’t freeze in terror. Beyond that, how often do you read a news story where someone successfully protects their family with a gun?? Maybe one for every 150 where a guy accidentally shoots himself or so someone else? Or a kid finds it and shoots his sister? But we’re valiantly protecting our families with them. The whole thing is fucking delusional, but it might as well say that on our flag at this point.

Hahaha, and this one:

I’ve lived smack in the middle of New York City for 31 years, and have never, ever thought to myself, “Jesus Christ, I really need a gun right now!” But I grew up in a town of 6,500 people in north Alabama where 70% of the population has an arsenal under their bed or on the wall in their living room or in the back window of their fucking pickup truck. That, and the fact that what they’re really “protecting” themselves against is the imagined threat of all Black people is why I left. And I’m not going back. They sure like to stick their chests and bellies out down there, but they’re actually a bunch of terrified little pussies. I’m a committed agnostic, but I often hope the afterlife unfolds the way these idiots believe it will, because I’ll be waving to them while they trundle off to an eternal damnation where the Crimson Tide repeatedly fumbles the ball on the one yard line with no time left on the clock. And a Black guy is on the couch, making out with their daughter.


Original article:

 

JayMysteri0

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Wait wait wait.


You're suggesting all gun owners are not highly trained marksmen (is markswoman a word?) who can shoot a moving target amongst innocents using a hand gun with the accuracy of an Army Ranger and a mounted rifle with a scope?

For bonus editorializing. -You'll know why the moment the police show
 

Pumbaa

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There was a fascinating documentary I watched a while ago (I think it may have been on HBO) where they put a group of gun owners in a classroom setting and were given sidearms to wear during the session, with the idea being that it was to be an educational exercise for them.

Midway through the session a couple of gunmen break into the room and all hell broke loose. Naturally the owners pulled out their guns and started firing back.

IIRC neither invading shooter was injured but plenty of 'students' were hit by other 'students' and others failed to even get a shot out.

Obviously this was all faked and none of the guns were live.

What it did show though that when all hell breaks loose, the vast majority of owners are totally unable to respond accordingly and are just as dangerous as the shooters.

Go figure...
Similar to this?


 

P_X

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There was a fascinating documentary I watched a while ago (I think it may have been on HBO) where they put a group of gun owners in a classroom setting and were given sidearms to wear during the session, with the idea being that it was to be an educational exercise for them.

Midway through the session a couple of gunmen break into the room and all hell broke loose. Naturally the owners pulled out their guns and started firing back.

IIRC neither invading shooter was injured but plenty of 'students' were hit by other 'students' and others failed to even get a shot out.

Obviously this was all faked and none of the guns were live.

What it did show though that when all hell breaks loose, the vast majority of owners are totally unable to respond accordingly and are just as dangerous as the shooters.

Go figure...
What would happen in real life is everybody would shoot the black guy with the gun. If not the "good guys", then the cops. Then we'd learn that the black guy was just another "good guy".

These pro gun advocates are the modern day tobacco advocates. It's clear that it's bad for you. It's clear that it's bad for others. They however are run by financial interests (if they are smart), or illusions of self-empowerment (if they are crazy).
 

MissNomer

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What would happen in real life is everybody would shoot the black guy with the gun. If not the "good guys", then the cops. Then we'd learn that the black guy was just another "good guy".

These pro gun advocates are the modern day tobacco advocates. It's clear that it's bad for you. It's clear that it's bad for others. They however are run by financial interests (if they are smart), or illusions of self-empowerment (if they are crazy).
We all know that the good guys with guns are Hetrosexual Christian Right WIng Caucasians.

Everyone else is a potential bad guy (or gal) who needs to be executed before they do something dangerous (like ban the "good guys" from owning so many pseudo - military guns)
 

Pumbaa

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I think that's the one!
I can see how untrained unexperienced people would underestimate how difficult it is to draw and fire a gun accurately without any advance warning. I can even somewhat understand that the same people can have a hard time believing other people telling them that, and rather keep believing that they are proficient with guns in all situations after having fired shots at a range or in the woods.

What I can’t understand is how they ignore the problem with other people than the bad guy with a gun likely getting shot.

Let’s say I see someone draw a gun and point it at someone, finger on the trigger and all. Must be a bad guy with a gun. I draw my gun and fire! Hero of the day!

Except that someone else sees me drawing a gun, believing me to be a bad guy with a gun. And then a third person, yeah, guess what?

But noooo. It’s gonna be like in the Wild West movies! Everyone in a crowd knows who the bad guy is! And armed bystanders never interfere.
 

P_X

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I can see how untrained unexperienced people would underestimate how difficult it is to draw and fire a gun accurately without any advance warning. I can even somewhat understand that the same people can have a hard time believing other people telling them that, and rather keep believing that they are proficient with guns in all situations after having fired shots at a range or in the woods.

What I can’t understand is how they ignore the problem with other people than the bad guy with a gun likely getting shot.

Let’s say I see someone draw a gun and point it at someone, finger on the trigger and all. Must be a bad guy with a gun. I draw my gun and fire! Hero of the day!

Except that someone else sees me drawing a gun, believing me to be a bad guy with a gun. And then a third person, yeah, guess what?

But noooo. It’s gonna be like in the Wild West movies! Everyone in a crowd knows who the bad guy is! And armed bystanders never interfere.

Like this:
1622130321472.png


Many Americans are simply insanely misinformed. Per Pew, 53% of Americans think guns increase public safety. The same people grew up watching TV shows where cops arrive on the scene and know right away who the good guy is. Reality looks like this (from wiki)

On November 11, 2018, Jemel Roberson, a 26-year-old African American security guard for Manny's Blue Room Bar in Robbins, Illinois, was fatally shot by Ian Covey, a Midlothian police officer responding to a call of shots fired at the bar.[1] Roberson was working for the bar as a security guard when four people were non-fatally shot by a gunman. After Roberson subdued and pinned the shooter to the ground, he was shot by a Midlothian police officer arriving at the scene.

PDs are amazing at following protocols when it comes to the aftermaths of these shootings:
The Illinois State Police are handling the investigation into the fatal shooting of Roberson. The officer was placed on a paid administrative leave in the meantime. The officer has been with the Midlothian police department for almost seven years, assigned to the patrol division, and is also a SWAT team leader.[6][14]

The police department initially argued that Roberson had ignored "verbal commands" before the shooting, but later released a second statement claiming that the shooting had been a case of "friendly fire," and that Roberson’s death was a tragic accident.

And this was a SWAT team leader.
 

Stephen.R

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Then we'd learn that the black guy was just another "good guy".
I doubt this part would ever be acknowledged by some. I'm sure they'd find something he'd done wrong to justify it. Breathing while black is still a crime right?
 

MissNomer

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I can see how untrained unexperienced people would underestimate how difficult it is to draw and fire a gun accurately without any advance warning. I can even somewhat understand that the same people can have a hard time believing other people telling them that, and rather keep believing that they are proficient with guns in all situations after having fired shots at a range or in the woods.

What I can’t understand is how they ignore the problem with other people than the bad guy with a gun likely getting shot.

Let’s say I see someone draw a gun and point it at someone, finger on the trigger and all. Must be a bad guy with a gun. I draw my gun and fire! Hero of the day!

Except that someone else sees me drawing a gun, believing me to be a bad guy with a gun. And then a third person, yeah, guess what?

But noooo. It’s gonna be like in the Wild West movies! Everyone in a crowd knows who the bad guy is! And armed bystanders never interfere.
Oh, you mean like Emantic Fitzgerald, a black veteran who, upon hearing gunshots in the Riverchase Galleria Mall (Atlanta, GA) in 2018 ran in with his gun to protect the shoppers and was subsequently killed by the police?
 

Chew Toy McCoy

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If ONLY that area hadn't been a "gun free" zone.
Checked out the coverage on Fox just to see how far they buried the story. To my surprise it was only buried under about 20 opinion driven "news" stories instead of the usual 50.

The comments section is loaded with comments like what you posted, along with the usual "Oh great, here comes more misguided gun control laws", despite A). that didn't happen with the other 231 mass shootings this year and B). Have they picked a threshold number of mass shootings where they feel maybe something should be done about it? To me 232 seems high enough to pass a reasonable threshold, but maybe I don't know what I'm talking about. You'd think saying "Oh great, here comes more misguided gun control laws" 232 times, just this year, would be enough to make them rethink their stance, but again, I probably don't know what I'm talking about.
 
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Stephen.R

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Checked out the coverage on Fox just to see how far they buried the story. To my surprise it was only buried under about 20 opinion driven "news" stories instead of the usual 50.

The comments section is loaded with comments like what you posted, along with the usual "Oh great, here comes more misguided gun control laws", despite A). that not didn't happen with the other 231 mass shootings this year and B). Have they picked a threshold number of mass shootings where they feel maybe something should be done about it? To me 232 seems high enough to pass a reasonable threshold, but maybe I don't know what I'm talking about. You'd think saying "Oh great, here comes more misguided gun control laws" 232 times, just this year, would be enough to make them rethink their stance, but again, I probably don't know what I'm talking about.
There is no number thats too high, because for them the solution is obvious: just more guns. Any kind of gun control is "misguided" for them.
 

P_X

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Checked out the coverage on Fox just to see how far they buried the story. To my surprise it was only buried under about 20 opinion driven "news" stories instead of the usual 50.

The comments section is loaded with comments like what you posted, along with the usual "Oh great, here comes more misguided gun control laws", despite A). that not didn't happen with the other 231 mass shootings this year and B). Have they picked a threshold number of mass shootings where they feel maybe something should be done about it? To me 232 seems high enough to pass a reasonable threshold, but maybe I don't know what I'm talking about. You'd think saying "Oh great, here comes more misguided gun control laws" 232 times, just this year, would be enough to make them rethink their stance, but again, I probably don't know what I'm talking about.
This is the issue with this whole thinking.
"COVID isn't a big deal" - Checks excess mortality and it's >100K (somewhere last year)
"Gun control doesn't work" - Checks gun homicide rates in Canada and UK and it's >8-200x lower than the USA.

Some people only grasp processes that are fatal when they are fetal.
 

Stephen.R

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This is the issue with this whole thinking.
"COVID isn't a big deal" - Checks excess mortality and it's >100K (somewhere last year)
"Gun control doesn't work" - Checks gun homicide rates in Canada and UK and it's >8-200x lower than the USA.

Some people only grasp processes that are fatal when they are fetal.
You just need to start reporting COVID and gun deaths specifically of pregnant women. Sorry. Pregnant, white, married, christian women.
 

MissNomer

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Some people only grasp processes that are fatal when they are fetal.
Not sure how true that is - there's been enough stories out there about Covid patients who are in the process of dying from Covid and are bitching as to why they're being treated for Covid.
 

Stephen.R

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Not sure how true that is - there's been enough stories out there about Covid patients who are in the process of dying from Covid and are bitching as to why they're being treated for Covid.
I think he he meant relating to a foetus. not when they're in the fetal position hacking up a lung.
 
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