Anyone hanging their American flag?

ericgtr12

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Don Jr. is calling you out. Personally, I've never been more ashamed of my country and there's no way I'm hanging one with this anti-American maniac in charge. Just the fact that we're not out there burning and pissing all over it in the middle of street is a testament of the restraint people have shown.

 

Scepticalscribe

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You know, I am a big American Civil War buff, and have been since childhood.

As a child, my father and I bonded over that, - he was fascinated by the American Civil War, and by American history and politics - and my childhood hero was Lincoln.

Indeed, we always had a vague plan, - never fulfilled, alas, because he died when I was still working as a teacher, well before I worked in the sort of positions which paid well, - that we would take a trip to the US, (a place I have never visited despite having worked in three continents), and tour some Civil War battlefields together, while also taking in some other cultural stuff (jazz, - for, he loved Ella and he loved jazz - restaurants, maybe museums and take in a few concerts).

But now, I am coming around to the view that the Confederate flag ought to be banned outright, completely prohibited, as a symbol representing a state that was the very expression of hatred, institutional racism, oppression on racist grounds, and a truly troglodyte view of the world, based on legally buttressed and harshly reinforced inequalities, of race, gender, and social class.
 
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Arkitect

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You know, I am a big American Civi War buff, and have been since childhood.
There is an excellent series of lectures by Open Yale Courses — Professor David Blight.
Link
You can also find it on YouTube.

27 lectures in all and around 50 minutes each.
This is no rose tinted view of aw shucks the poor South.
Bonus, he really does not like Shelby Foote. :p

Phenomenal.
 
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Renzatic

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Indeed, we always had a vague plan, - never fulfilled, alas, because he died when I was still working as a teacher, well before I worked in the sort of positions which paid well, - that we would take a trip to the US, (a place I have never visited despite having worked in three continents), and tour some Civil War battlefields together, while also taking in some other cultural stuff (jazz, restaurants, maybe museums and a few concerts).

I could provide you with a virtual tour, since I live less than 10 minutes away from Chickamauga Battlefield.

At the very least, I could take shots of where I've hunted for Green Eyes, the ghost that supposedly haunts the park. I never managed to find him, though I did see a deer once.
 

Thomas Veil

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I understand what Eric's saying. With every right wing yokel out there putting up the US flag alongside their Trump and Gadsden flags, they've made it just seem wrong. Fly the colors and it's almost like declaring that I am one with the antediluvian primitives that grunt their approval every time Trump sends a tweet.

It's a damn shame that the right has in many ways taken ownership of the flag as a symbol. I'd love to see the Democrats reclaim it. After Trump, that should be easy. Make it a part of a "Be Proud of America Again" campaign, because if Biden wins, we can be proud of our country again.
 

ericgtr12

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I understand what Eric's saying. With every right wing yokel out there putting up the US flag alongside their Trump and Gadsden flags, they've made it just seem wrong. Fly the colors and it's almost like declaring that I am one with the antediluvian primitives that grunt their approval every time Trump sends a tweet.

It's a damn shame that the right has in many ways taken ownership of the flag as a symbol. I'd love to see the Democrats reclaim it. After Trump, that should be easy. Make it a part of a "Be Proud of America Again" campaign, because if Biden wins, we can be proud of our country again.
I've always hung one, even during the Bush years but it took Trump to make me feel the type of shame and embarrassment for this country to prevent me from doing it. It's still in the garage ready to go if we vote this monster out.
 

lizkat

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I've always hung one, even during the Bush years but it took Trump to make me feel the type of shame and embarrassment for this country to prevent me from doing it. It's still in the garage ready to go if we vote this monster out.

I wasn't used to having the flag waving off the front porch except from Memorial Day to Veteran's Day, was always afraid the winter winds would take the hemp or cotton rigging rope and put that flag in the next county. But I cop to not having put it out any more after Trump was elected. I'll fetch it back down out of a cupboard next year, I can hope, and put that flag out there on some more weather-resistant rigging.
 

JBaby

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My family has never been enamored with the flag. Chris Rock said how we feel best. America is like that uncle who paid for your college education, but also molested you as a child. Don’t get me wrong I don’t hate America, but I can’t say I love America either. But make no mistake I’m always rooting for America even when she lets me down. I know saying this is controversial. We only put up flag stuff for Memorial Day, a holiday started by the formally enslaved, and July 4th.
 

Alli

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Frankly, almost every person who hangs a flag at home is doing it wrong, and against 4 U.S. Code § 8.Respect for flag. You can’t just hang it from your porch and leave it there. It has to come in every evening. It must be hung in a particular direction, and cannot touch the ground. And so on and so on.

Flying the American flag is a commitment not to be taken lightly. It’s a lot of work.
 

Yoused

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I have a flag. They gave it to me off my dad's pine box. It is a damn nice one. Real duck, not that paper thin nylon. It is folded in the neat triangle that they put it in fifteen years ago, tucked away in a plastic bag. When I feel proper pride in my nation, when I feel optimism for the promise of America, it will come out. I am skeptical that I will live that long.
 

Alli

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I have a flag. They gave it to me off my dad's pine box. It is a damn nice one. Real duck, not that paper thin nylon. It is folded in the neat triangle that they put it in fifteen years ago, tucked away in a plastic bag. When I feel proper pride in my nation, when I feel optimism for the promise of America, it will come out. I am skeptical that I will live that long.
My father is buried at Arlington National Cemetery. (Another reason we don’t want Trump interred there.) At his funeral, they handed my mother a flag after folding it. It went straight into the flag container next to his service medals. It would never occur to me to actually use that one. I don’t know why.
 

lizkat

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I asked that the folded flag be given to my younger sister at the funeral of my youngest brother. She had two young kids of her own at the time she and her husband welcomed the bro into their home during his turbulent high school years, after it became clear he wasn't getting enough constructive supervision from my dad and stepmom. Working on a dairy farm, being expected to get good grades, being a "big bro" to his niece and nephew, and entering the Air Force after high school saved him from the worst of a road of trouble he had been exploring without guidance in his early teens. We were sad and angry that the VA couldn't seem to help him well in his later years as a Vietnam Vet, but that American flag was still special to us, because he had come to believe in trying to serve the country it stood for.
 

Arkitect

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Regular as clockwork your over the pond correspondent chimes in. :)

This hanging a flag out is a curious thing.

Reading the comments above are quite revealing and moving. It obviously means a heck of a lot to Americans and cuts across the political divide.

Over here… *sigh* how else, but things are different.
In the United Kingdom the Union flag is usually only seen flying from government (local or national) buildings or at events sponsored by the government.

When you do see a flag fluttering (usually quite tattered and seen better days) in front of a private house chances are a certain type of person lives there… and they are usually not the most progressive.
They would almost certainly be conservative voters, and further right if they could.

Then there are the country flags. Though most people use England as shorthand for the UK, it consists of 4 nations.
St George's for England, St Andrews for Scotland, the "Red Dragon" for Wales and the St Patrick's Saltire for (Northern) Ireland.

Flying one of those indicates a fiercely nationalistic household or individual. Certainly in 2016 the St George's flag went hand in hand with posters for UKIP and LEAVE.

I have great unease with these overt displays of nationalism… in one of the LeCarré novels he writes: "Nationalism needs enemies."
 

Huntn

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There is an excellent series of lectures by Open Yale Courses — Professor David Blight.
Link
You can also find it on YouTube.

27 lectures in all and around 50 minutes each.
This is no rose tinted view of aw shucks the poor South.
Bonus, he really does not like Shelby Foote. :p

Phenomenal.
My favorite is the PBS The Civil War documentary:

Followed closely by the book Killer Angels which covers primarily the Battle of Gettysburg. After this two more books were written (by the authors son who had passed) to cover the beginning and middle of the war. Despite having a huge industrial base, things did not go well for the Union at the start, up to the middle of the war. The first half of the war was a resounding Southern success until Lincoln got Grant into the action.

s-l500.jpg
 

Renzatic

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I asked that the folded flag be given to my younger sister at the funeral of my youngest brother. She had two young kids of her own at the time she and her husband welcomed the bro into their home during his turbulent high school years, after it became clear he wasn't getting enough constructive supervision from my dad and stepmom. Working on a dairy farm, being expected to get good grades, being a "big bro" to his niece and nephew, and entering the Air Force after high school saved him from the worst of a road of trouble he had been exploring without guidance in his early teens. We were sad and angry that the VA couldn't seem to help him well in his later years as a Vietnam Vet, but that American flag was still special to us, because he had come to believe in trying to serve the country it stood for.

You should really consider writing a book one of these days.
 

Huntn

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Regular as clockwork your over the pond correspondent chimes in. :)

This hanging a flag out is a curious thing.

Reading the comments above are quite revealing and moving. It obviously means a heck of a lot to Americans and cuts across the political divide.

Over here… *sigh* how else, but things are different.
In the United Kingdom the Union flag is usually only seen flying from government (local or national) buildings or at events sponsored by the government.

When you do see a flag fluttering (usually quite tattered and seen better days) in front of a private house chances are a certain type of person lives there… and they are usually not the most progressive.
They would almost certainly be conservative voters, and further right if they could.

Then there are the country flags. Though most people use England as shorthand for the UK, it consists of 4 nations.
St George's for England, St Andrews for Scotland, the "Red Dragon" for Wales and the St Patrick's Saltire for (Northern) Ireland.

Flying one of those indicates a fiercely nationalistic household or individual. Certainly in 2016 the St George's flag went hand in hand with posters for UKIP and LEAVE.

I have great unease with these overt displays of nationalism… in one of the LeCarré novels he writes: "Nationalism needs enemies."
My feeling as a kid was that the flag was hung to show respect and gratitude towards your country. A lot of people did it.

I first started questioning this during the W years when we got into a shitty Middle East War thanks to lies from the top, and my feeling is that the flag became a political statement, I support this war and this President who got us into it.

With Trump once again someone is trying to associate the flag to him, patriotism, the Office of the President as something we should be bound to, and god forbid proud of. :cautious: You hear "respect the office" but the sad fact is that the office is only as good at the occupant. A loser can't hide behind patriotism, especially when he has not one patriotic bone in his body.

The answer to this thread, no I am not hanging a flag. Usually on the 4th a local real estate person comes around and plants a teeny US flag (made in China) in the front yard of every house.
 
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lizkat

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My feeling as a kid was that the flag was hung to show respect and gratitude towards your country. A lot of people did it.

I first started questioning this during the W years when we got into a shitty Middle East War thanks to lies from the top, and my feeling is that the flag became a political statement, I support this war and this President who got us into it.

With Trump once again someone is trying to associate the flag to him, patriotism, the Office of the President as something we should be bound to, and god forbid proud of. :cautious: You hear "respect the office" but the sad fact is that the office is only as good at the occupant. A loser can't hide behind patriotism, especially when he has not one patriotic bone in his body.

I felt like the Rs were trying to own the flag ever since Bill Clinton won the Presidency, depriving Bush 41 of a second term... and the GOP were like 'Wait, what? he may be from the south but say what now?" -- and Newt Gingrich then coming out with his "Contract for [heh, on] America" as if the Dems hadn't a clue how to legislate on behalf of the nation. Suddenly all the Rs were sporting little flag pins...

Anyway that midterm in 1994 was when I started hanging the flag out up here in the sticks, but with yard signs for Democrats in state and local elections. Then the next summer I put the flag out on Memorial Day and put it out most days until mid November. The country's flag doesn't belong to a single party unless the people let it happen, same with those little flag decals or pins people wear on their jackets and totebags. I stuck a flag decal on my Bernie water bottle in 2016... Let 'em all wonder.

You should really consider writing a book one of these days.
Some might be pretty sure I already have done, right here in these threads. But nah, the book I want to read is @Scepticalscribe's.
 

niji

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the other day, AOC was wearing a USA flag broach.
my instant personal level reaction was that she wears it as a defence - a way of shortcutting people who badmouth her - a reverse twist PCism against the very people who would criticise her for not wearing one if she wasn't.

i have never sided with the ilk who wave flags.
i have sided with the folk who burn flags.
 
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lizkat

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this thread could only have been started by a non-American. thanks @Arkitect .

the other day, AOC was wearing a USA flag broach.
my instant personal level reaction was that she wears it as a defence - a way of shortcutting people who badmouth her - a reverse twist PCism against the very people who would criticise her for not wearing one if she wasn't.

i have never sided with folk who wave flags.
i have sided with folk who burn flags.

I regard the flag as a symbol.... and as it happens, a flexible one.
 

Yoused

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I perceive flags as martial symbology. Their main purpose in the pasthas been the standard under which the soldiers fight. It is no accident that vexillology uses the nomenclature and syntax of heraldry which is primarily of battlefield significance. And just look at the national anthem: a poem about war set to the tune of a song about getting randy drunk.

I am not a warrior, and not a supporter of the kind of adventurism in which the US military has been employed in my lifetime, so the flag means meh to me.
 
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