Apple’s ML chief leaving (for dumb reason)

[Cmaier]

“Ian Goodfellow, Apple’s director of machine learning, is leaving the company due to its return to work policy. In a note to staff, he said “I believe strongly that more flexibility would have been the best policy for my team.” He was likely the company’s most cited ML expert.”

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1523017143939309568/

One time an intern where I worked demanded a desk with a treadmill.

This guy is entitled to take work any place that will have him, and if he values work-from-home more than other things, that’s fine. But mouthing off about it is pretty obnoxious, IMO.

 

[Eric]

The decision is now in the hands of the employees for a change because there is so much work available. One strategy recruiters are using is to watch for those forcing workers back into the office and then approaching them with remote opportunities which has been highly successful from the sound of it.

I don't know the specifics of this particular incident outside of this post but even companies the size of Apple will have to take notice of the shifting tides. In the end the question is whether or not a person can perform the same duties at home as they can in the office, and they have a choice.

 

[Citysnaps]

This guy is entitled to take work any place that will have him, and if he values work-from-home more than other things, that’s fine. But mouthing off about it is pretty obnoxious, IMO.

And unprofessional. That might bite him someday.

 

[Eric]

I personally don't think this was out of line, in fact I think most would agree.

“I believe strongly that more flexibility would have been the best policy for my team.”

Was there more said on top of this?

 

[Citysnaps]

It's up to 760 posts at the other place. What a shit-show.

 

[Runs For Fun]

I disagree. This is a perfectly good reason to leave. There are a lot of jobs that do not require being in an office. They should be able to be done remotely if that is the case. This whole butts in seats office culture is on its way out and good riddance to that. The team I work with is mostly located in another state and some are completely remote. Me going into the office would be absolutely pointless because it would basically be just me. It would make no sense. Luckily I've been able to work from home since even before the pandemic started. I'm glad there's a lot of push back on the whole office culture attitude lately. It's really giving a lot of power back to employees and forcing employers to treat employees better and forcing out old style thinking.

 

[Herdfan]

A classmate from HS works for Apple in Dallas. He went back to the office a couple of weeks ago for the first time in 2 years. He noticed that 1) the plants were a lot bigger and 2) he wondered who came in and watered them.

 

[Citysnaps]

It's really giving a lot of power back to employees and forcing employers to treat employees better and forcing out old style thinking.

But Apple, with a much wider view and perspective with respect to the dynamics and the needs of the company, and the manner in how labor is allocated and handled, is in a much better position to make those decisions. Yes, it might make sense for some people to work from home, which I understand Apple already permitted pre-pandemic when it made sense. But that likely doesn't make sense for other Apple employees. With Apple being the employer that's a determination Apple gets to make.

Yes, Karl Marx would nod in approval in giving a lot of power back to employees. But that's likely not an Apple corporate objective.

 

[Eric]

I disagree. This is a perfectly good reason to leave. There are a lot of jobs that do not require being in an office. They should be able to be done remotely if that is the case. This whole butts in seats office culture is on its way out and good riddance to that. The team I work with is mostly located in another state and some are completely remote. Me going into the office would be absolutely pointless because it would basically be just me. It would make no sense. Luckily I've been able to work from home since even before the pandemic started. I'm glad there's a lot of push back on the whole office culture attitude lately. It's really giving a lot of power back to employees and forcing employers to treat employees better and forcing out old style thinking.

Yes, it's about time the workers finally have a say and it's nice to see that even Apple isn't spared here. If all one is doing is sitting at their computer all day and having meetings there's no reason it can't be done remotely on both counts, Teams and Zoom is all anyone needs here.

I would ask what the actual benefit of going back into the office has for the employee, commutes can be anywhere from 1 to 4 hours just to be strapped to a cubical and have management watch over you. You can get so much more done in this time and I would argue you may spend more time during off hours doing your job as well as you can just pop open your laptop whenever it's convenient for you during off hours.

Management and coworkers can still see your presence online and anyone taking advantage of it are quickly fleshed out. You can also hire people from all over the country without all the hassle of relocation, not only does it make the process faster, it also gets you more qualified candidates with such a massive pool.

Power to the people here, if you're a good worker it will show, just as if you were in the office. I get that corporations have billions invested into properties but I don't see how that's the worker's problem, they need to step up and adapt, for most of them it's a minor ding to their bottom line.

 

[throAU]

*shrug*

Apple espouse being able to work from anywhere for their customers, so not negotiating the same for their employees is somewhat hypocritical. And that's the story here.

Most people working in tech (including myself) spend most of their day sitting in front of a screen dealing with data/apps/problems hosted on remote systems; driving 1-2 hours per day each way to do that is stupid. If i am working from home i save 2hrs per day (and several hundred dollars per month in commute costs) to either get better work/life balance, more sleep, etc. and am genuinely on balance probably more productive in less time. And I've got more time.

I get it, occasionally face to face meetings are a good thing, but go into the office or even meet up somewhere else for those as and when required. The whole "meeting people in the hallway" thing contributing to work is of limited benefit imho.

 

[Runs For Fun]

But Apple, with a much wider view and perspective with respect to the dynamics and the needs of the company, and the manner in how labor is allocated and handled, is in a much better position to make those decisions. Yes, it might make sense for some people to work from home, which I understand Apple already permitted pre-pandemic when it made sense. But that likely doesn't make sense for other Apple employees. With Apple being the employer that's a determination Apple gets to make.

Yes, Karl Marx would nod in approval in giving a lot of power back to employees. But that's likely not an Apple corporate objective.

Like I said there are some jobs that do not need to be in-person. I never said all jobs.

 

[Citysnaps]

Like I said there are some jobs that do not need to be in-person. I never said all jobs.

Yup, and I never said all jobs either. Still, Apple being the employer (with the wider perspective), gets to decide which jobs would be appropriate for working from home. As I previously mentioned, it's my understanding many Apple employees already worked from home pre-pandemic.

 

[Joe]

There are a lot of people in that thread that care way too much about the life choice someone made for themselves lol

 

[DT]

Yup, and I never said all jobs either. Still, Apple being the employer (with the wider perspective), gets to decide which jobs would be appropriate for working from home. As I previously mentioned, it's my understanding many Apple employees already worked from home pre-pandemic.

Having been on both sides of this, I'd agree, it's bit tricky to assume anything about the logistics of his role.

 

[Eric]

Having been on both sides of this, I'd agree, it's bit tricky to assume anything about the logistics of his role.

In my job I consult with IT managers every day and most (granted not all but I would say 95% of my clients) have given into having their staff work remotely, the only exceptions are those who have a physical need to be in the office, setting up conference room phones, moving inventory, etc. and even then they're only asked to come in when it's necessary.

COVID has boosted it but it's also shown how much more productive you can be as a result. From a recent study on Forbes

Without using spyware or capturing keystrokes, a California-based company has tracked a 47% increase in worker productivity. Based on non-invasive technology that doesn’t grab user passwords, credit card info or other sensitive data, an eye-opening survey shows that smart companies are gaining ground by having workers work from home.

I do agree that it really depends on the industry and companies need to make what they feel are the right decisions for themselves, at the same time they have to deal with a workforce who now has a voice and a choice. Right now there is so much work available in the tech sector and it's extremely hard to find qualified candidates, so that all has to be factored in when you're going to force them to come into an office for a job they can otherwise do remotely.

 

[DT]

Oh yeah, I definitely get it, as someone who has worked from home for ~20 years, with minimal travel.

Though I also had a several month gig in Mountain View, working on the interfacing layer/SDK in the CV team, where I'd do 4-5 days on site, and 4-5 days back on the east coast, and for this specific engagement, that involved specialized hardware (that I did not have at home), being "in the office" was almost a necessity (the home time was mostly documentation and code cleanup vs. any real proactive / new dev effort).

I'd take a SWAG that this particular individual has a unique situation that's probably not like 95% of the coder population. Or not. And that was really my point (and I think @citypix's as well), that this may very well not be a simple "coders can easily work from home" scenario.

Meant to add: I'm so into the "not leaving my home office" mode, I regularly dismiss some reasonably tasty opportunities (though they're not really my direction at this stage of my life), and I recently picked up a little gig from an existing client, did it as a project based engagement, pretty easy stuff, but there was a training component to it, which required, well, training and travel, and I basically said, "Yeah, I'm not doing that"

 

[rdrr]

The work remote options will create two types of pay structures at the same company, like shift differentials. Those that work onsite vs. remote and that will be the next pay equity issue. As well as paying someone who lives in Arkansas a NYC salary because the company is based in NYC. People who work remote, don't have to pay for auto expenses (gas, tolls, maintenance, and parking), commuting time, child care, etc.

 

[ronntaylor]

Goodfellow began his third stint with Google/Alphabet

Apple exec who departed over office return policy joins up with Google | AppleInsider

After his split, Apple's former director of machine learning has already moved on and has found employment with Google's DeepMind.

appleinsider.com

This isn't Goodfellow's first time working for Google, either. He worked as a research scientist at Google from 2014 through 2015 and then again from 2017 to 2019. He also interned for Google in 2013.

 

[Cmaier]

Goodfellow began his third stint with Google/Alphabet

Apple exec who departed over office return policy joins up with Google | AppleInsider

After his split, Apple's former director of machine learning has already moved on and has found employment with Google's DeepMind.

appleinsider.com

And I still say the work at home nonsense had nothing to do with it.

 

[Clix Pix]

Probably Google gave him a more enticing offer....packed with goodies he just could not refuse.