Biden administration to pay migrants separated at border millions of dollars

[Herdfan]

Honestly, I think the current losses have mostly to do with Covid ideology differences.

I also know not all things in the current bill being debated are popular, but you’d have a hard time convincing me that the average voter even on the right is alarmed by the looming threat of expanded Medicare, family leave, drug price negotiation, lowering drug prices, and taxing billionaires. And when people are struggling economically currently you can’t convince me their bigger concern is the national debt. “I’ll just eat ramon and wipe my ass with leaves so we can lower the national debt”.

Maybe the mask thing in NJ. I mean Murphy got caught on an open mic saying he would do CA style mandates if he won. WTF? You are already Governor, so if you think they are a good idea, then do them. Don't wait based on a political calculation.

And if it were just those things, you might have a point. But the current bill has $555B for the Green New Deal. Now you may think that is important and that's fine. But it isn't going to help anyone now unlike many of the things you listed. Nor is taxing billionaires.

Plus, we have seen this show before. The ACA was supposed to lower premiums. It did not. So why should I, or anyone else for that matter, believe that this bill will lower drug prices? The excuse was because the GOP monkeyed with it. Ok, so what makes you so sure they won't monkey with it again once they have control in 2022?

 

[SuperMatt]

The damage is already done. Too many voters will conflate doing this with failing to deliver economic relief to Americans, and as I mentioned already, in right leaning America just the left's interest in doing something is as bad/good as actually doing it. We’re all drowning in socialism right now.

A story released by the press which may turn out to be false and “the damage is already done” wut? The right is increasingly detached from reality.

If the right is going to try and burn down the Capitol again because of something “liberals” didn’t even do, then that furthers my argument:

Democrats: pass the progressive agenda, and do it today. The GOP will attack you as if you DID pass it even if you never even brought it up. If they’re gonna use it in attack ads, then actually do it and get us all the benefits.

 

[SuperMatt]

Which isn't really much different than the Dems telling seniors the GOP is coming for their Social Security.

In the case of G.W. Bush, that really was the case. Imagine if he was successful in getting the system switched so that seniors’ money went into the stock market like he wanted before the 2008/9 financial crisis. 2009 would have been 1000x worse. So yeah, he literally WAS coming for Social Security, and we saw in 2008/9 just how disastrous that would have been.

 

[SuperMatt]

Plus, we have seen this show before. The ACA was supposed to lower premiums. It did not. So why should I, or anyone else for that matter, believe that this bill will lower drug prices? The excuse was because the GOP monkeyed with it. Ok, so what makes you so sure they won't monkey with it again once they have control in 2022?

Maybe not for you, but it did slow the increase in prices. Want to know when the premiums skyrocketed? During Trump’s presidency, after he killed the individual mandate. After a couple years of dropping premiums or almost flat, they went up 15% or more for 2 straight years under his regime.

If your premiums tripled in 10 years, I don’t know what’s up. Premiums nationwide went up an average of 3.5% a year since 2005, so you might want to shop around for a better deal.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

Maybe the mask thing in NJ. I mean Murphy got caught on an open mic saying he would do CA style mandates if he won. WTF? You are already Governor, so if you think they are a good idea, then do them. Don't wait based on a political calculation.

And if it were just those things, you might have a point. But the current bill has $555B for the Green New Deal. Now you may think that is important and that's fine. But it isn't going to help anyone now unlike many of the things you listed. Nor is taxing billionaires.

Plus, we have seen this show before. The ACA was supposed to lower premiums. It did not. So why should I, or anyone else for that matter, believe that this bill will lower drug prices? The excuse was because the GOP monkeyed with it. Ok, so what makes you so sure they won't monkey with it again once they have control in 2022?

I haven’t really paid close attention to those races, but I heard at least one of the losers is a well-known corporate Democrat. Given that I think there is another possible way to look at things. If there was an election today that Manchin and Sinema were in and they lost I think absolutely nobody would be surprised by that and why. At minimum Democrats aren’t going to show up to support their blatant corruption-based obstruction. So there’s no reason to believe that, that same thing isn’t or won’t play out in races that don’t have the national spotlight on them.

I think leaving a large chunk of money for climate change initiatives is an interesting almost McConnell-like calculation. First off it’s probably nowhere near enough given the total bill is currently at 1/6th the original total. That will open the door for “the money we spent didn’t have much of an impact. I guess it was all a waste” type statements. Second, they can say “Hey Progressives we passed your bill and it wasn’t popular.” Well, dipshit, the passed bill wasn’t popular because you stripped out everything that was universally popular. Third, regardless of total amount, this type of general goal spending is ripe for corruption and money “missing”. So even if one donor group that doesn’t like it, another will and will benefit from it. Suddenly Haliburton and Raytheon are the national leaders in climate change innovation. Who knew.

 

[SuperMatt]

I haven’t really paid close attention to those races, but I heard at least one of the losers is a well-known corporate Democrat. Given that I think there is another possible way to look at things. If there was an election today that Manchin and Sinema were in and they lost I think absolutely nobody would be surprised by that and why. At minimum Democrats aren’t going to show up to support their blatant corruption-based obstruction. So there’s no reason to believe that, that same thing isn’t or won’t play out in races that don’t have the national spotlight on them.

I think leaving a large chunk of money for climate change initiatives is an interesting almost McConnell-like calculation. First off it’s probably nowhere near enough given the total bill is currently at 1/6th the original total. That will open the door for “the money we spent didn’t have much of an impact. I guess it was all a waste” type statements. Second, they can say “Hey Progressives we passed your bill and it wasn’t popular.” Well, dipshit, the passed bill wasn’t popular because you stripped out everything that was universally popular. Third, regardless of total amount, this type of general goal spending is ripe for corruption and money “missing”. So even if one donor group that doesn’t like it, another will and will benefit from it. Suddenly Haliburton and Raytheon are the national leaders in climate change innovation. Who knew.

The human race will probably be close to extinction in 100 years. Most countries won’t do anything until it’s way too late. People have been banging the climate change drum since the 1970s at least, and it’s still largely ignored.

 

[Herdfan]

Maybe not for you, but it did slow the increase in prices. Want to know when the premiums skyrocketed? During Trump’s presidency, after he killed the individual mandate. After a couple years of dropping premiums or almost flat, they went up 15% or more for 2 straight years under his regime.

If your premiums tripled in 10 years, I don’t know what’s up. Premiums nationwide went up an average of 3.5% a year since 2005, so you might want to shop around for a better deal.

I realize every location is different, but my 2012 Premium was $980/mo. 2021 premium is $2,940/mo. Same carrier, higher deductible. And that was after they played the game of renewing 2012 on December 31, 2011 making it a non-ACA compliant policy therefore cheaper. We have 2 choices, one is BCBS and the other is someone I never heard of and they get like 1-2 stars.

One thing they needed to do was have a public option that was the same price across all states. That would have helped.

 

[Herdfan]

The human race will probably be close to extinction in 100 years. Most countries won’t do anything until it’s way too late. People have been banging the climate change drum since the 1970s at least, and it’s still largely ignored.

Honestly, until China and India are on board, it is just rearranging the chairs on the Titanic. The reduction in emissions in the US and EU are more than offset by increases from those two countries.

 

[SuperMatt]

I realize every location is different, but my 2012 Premium was $980/mo. 2021 premium is $2,940/mo. Same carrier, higher deductible. And that was after they played the game of renewing 2012 on December 31, 2011 making it a non-ACA compliant policy therefore cheaper. We have 2 choices, one is BCBS and the other is someone I never heard of and they get like 1-2 stars.

One thing they needed to do was have a public option that was the same price across all states. That would have helped.

Since you (and many others) only have 2 options (and some people only have 1 option), I am amazed at how many people oppose universal health care.

If we had universal health care, I am certain your taxes would not go up $36,000 a year to cover healthcare. So it would definitely be cheaper.

For some folks that get full healthcare benefits from their employer already, paying the additional tax to fund healthcare might seem like less of a deal.. but then again if your employer didn’t have to pay healthcare from their budget, they could raise salaries.

 

[SuperMatt]

Honestly, until China and India are on board, it is just rearranging the chairs on the Titanic. The reduction in emissions in the US and EU are more than offset by increases from those two countries.

Americans will say "China’s not gonna do it, so why should we?" And other countries are playing the same game. Like I said, we will be near extinction in 100 years because the attitude you’re expressing is widespread. Countries around the world blaming each other instead of fixing it. As long as humans keep with that attitude, they’ll be gone soon.

 

[SuperMatt]

Did the WSJ jump the shark on their article?



The article from The NY Times did give additional info, such as this high dollar figure was theoretical and only would have applied to a very small number of immigrants... with many getting much less or nothing at all. But nobody bothered to read those details... leading to a “garbage” question from Doocy. Oh look, a right-wing-media circus that turned out to be a tempest in a teapot!

 

[Herdfan]

Since you (and many others) only have 2 options (and some people only have 1 option), I am amazed at how many people oppose universal health care.

If we had universal health care, I am certain your taxes would not go up $36,000 a year to cover healthcare. So it would definitely be cheaper.

For some folks that get full healthcare benefits from their employer already, paying the additional tax to fund healthcare might seem like less of a deal.. but then again if your employer didn’t have to pay healthcare from their budget, they could raise salaries.

You equate my opposition to price. That would be incorrect. I had to battle Medicare several times for my mom over them not wanting to pay for things that should have been covered all while watching them waste money on other stuff. Similar situation with my M-I-L. Ask @Eric about his experiences with his mom and Medicaid. Not fun.

I simply don't trust the government with my healthcare.

Unless there was some mechanism in the law that required them to raise salaries, most companies would not. The offset would have to be a company side only payroll tax per employee that is a credit to the employee's income tax.

 

[Herdfan]

Americans will say "China’s not gonna do it, so why should we?" And other countries are playing the same game. Like I said, we will be near extinction in 100 years because the attitude you’re expressing is widespread. Countries around the world blaming each other instead of fixing it. As long as humans keep with that attitude, they’ll be gone soon.

I get why you think it sucks, but it is kind of reality. We could become carbon neutral and it really won't change things.

Want to know how to get their attention? Stop buying Chinese products or find a President/Congress with the guts to slap high enough tariffs on their products until they comply. But no one wants to do that.

 

[SuperMatt]

You equate my opposition to price. That would be incorrect. I had to battle Medicare several times for my mom over them not wanting to pay for things that should have been covered all while watching them waste money on other stuff. Similar situation with my M-I-L. Ask @Eric about his experiences with his mom and Medicaid. Not fun.

I simply don't trust the government with my healthcare.

Unless there was some mechanism in the law that required them to raise salaries, most companies would not. The offset would have to be a company side only payroll tax per employee that is a credit to the employee's income tax.

Medicare has a much better track record than private insurance companies. The distrust is because you’re being tricked by the insurance companies, who lobby the GOP heavily to push that narrative.

The government is accountable to the people; we can vote in politicians to improve/change the health policies.

Private insurance is accountable to shareholders… who want one thing: profit.

Why people want a system where they KNOW massive profits are being made, and the costs are out of control, is completely beyond me. It is brainwashing on a massive scale. You’ve bought into the “government isn’t to be trusted” propaganda of the right. YOU are the government. I am the government. We vote. But sure, keep paying $36K a year because of some nebulous distrust of “those politicians in Washington” if you want.

 

[SuperMatt]

I get why you think it sucks, but it is kind of reality. We could become carbon neutral and it really won't change things.

Want to know how to get their attention? Stop buying Chinese products or find a President/Congress with the guts to slap high enough tariffs on their products until they comply. But no one wants to do that.

Um…. Trump put tons of tariffs on Chinese stuff. It didn’t fix anything. Bit of a short memory there…

Also, the nonsense about blaming climate problems on China is like a guy in the neighborhood whose house is falling apart, lawn unkempt, trash in the yard, broken truck leaking oil in the driveway… and when they get called out, they point down the street “well that guy’s house is worse!”

 

[Herdfan]

Medicare has a much better track record than private insurance companies. The distrust is because you’re being tricked by the insurance companies, who lobby the GOP heavily to push that narrative.

There was no trick. I lived it. My mom who was 81 at the time fell and broke her leg. Medicare refused to classify her as admitted to the hospital making her eligible to go to an inpatient rehab facility. She couldn't walk. She wouldn't have been able to go to the bathroom, get food or do any other daily life skills. Only because the hospital social worker knew how to trick the system and get her into a true rehab hospital and then to an inpatient rehab facility was she able to go. But that is in a large part due to my wife being able to work on it nonstop for a couple of days and if it didn't work, mom could have paid the $480/day. Some people don't have the luxury of being able to stay on it or pay it if it doesn't work.

@Eric has a similar story.

 

[Herdfan]

Um…. Trump put tons of tariffs on Chinese stuff. It didn’t fix anything. Bit of a short memory there…

Also, the nonsense about blaming climate problems on China is like a guy in the neighborhood whose house is falling apart, lawn unkempt, trash in the yard, broken truck leaking oil in the driveway… and when they get called out, they point down the street “well that guy’s house is worse!”

He did. But not enough to get their attention. Or maybe he got their attention too much and now we have COVID.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

The human race will probably be close to extinction in 100 years. Most countries won’t do anything until it’s way too late. People have been banging the climate change drum since the 1970s at least, and it’s still largely ignored.

I kind of picture it like covid restrictions and precautions getting dialed back because what we have done has gotten us over the hump and it is petering out, but the covid hoaxers and anti-vaxxers will instead claim it as some kind of victory due to their protests. Similarly when climate change starts causing even more destruction the deniers will start claiming it as proof we couldn’t have done anything about it instead of proof that we acted way too late.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

I realize every location is different, but my 2012 Premium was $980/mo. 2021 premium is $2,940/mo. Same carrier, higher deductible. And that was after they played the game of renewing 2012 on December 31, 2011 making it a non-ACA compliant policy therefore cheaper. We have 2 choices, one is BCBS and the other is someone I never heard of and they get like 1-2 stars.

One thing they needed to do was have a public option that was the same price across all states. That would have helped.

I have employer provided insurance. It boggles my mind that anybody needs to pay anywhere near those amounts, and I know those rates are “normal”. If I was forced to pay that I would be homeless. I don’t understand how you or anybody paying those amounts isn’t fuming….or is defending our current system.

 

[SuperMatt]

I have employer provided insurance. It boggles my mind that anybody needs to pay anywhere near those amounts, and I know those rates are “normal”. If I was forced to pay that I would be homeless. I don’t understand how you or anybody paying those amounts isn’t fuming….or is defending our current system.

Also note - for every Medicare complaint there are just as many complaints about private insurers. And you’re paying over $30K a year for the private insurance, and Medicare is paid by everybody’s taxes and costs far less.

The data show clearly that a universal healthcare system provides better outcomes at a far lower price. People clinging to the American system are out of their minds… but most people that want to keep that system also voted Trump… oh yeah, like I said: they’re out of their minds.