Biden's weekly Approval Polls

[Chew Toy McCoy]

Good post, and admittedly this is OT, but I thought you were a good bit younger than that (not for any particular reason, just my "in head" forum reality ...)

I'm 49...which might be considered on the younger side on this forum.

I think younger people are too busy not paying attention unless it's a single issue that chaps their hide. Then they might go on a march and consider it mission accomplished. It's as if people don't expect protests to actually accomplish anything. Just being part of a protest is the goal.

The left is far behind in reaching the homicidal rage of the right, but they probably have just as many reasons to get there.

 

[SuperMatt]

Heard an interesting bit of history that Biden was instrumental to getting Jimmy Carter elected president. On so many levels you could say Biden’s presidency is Carter 2.0. I was too young to know what was going on when Carter was president but I do know he was one of our most unpopular presidents which included a gas crisis and the economy being in shambles. At the time the establishment felt the country just needed a middle of the road moderate after Nixon. Sound familiar?

Also of note, the stated goal of the fed currently is to raise unemployment and decrease wages. Biden supports whatever action the fed decides to take 100%. So we’ve gone from getting nothing done to just giving most people the middle finger.

America was in the midst of far worse inflation than today when Carter was elected. Nixon actually made inflation worse during his time in office, pressuring the Fed to keep loaning out cheap money despite the inflation, and giving out more Social Security because he thought it would help him win re-election… of course he never got that chance as we all know now.

Carter picked Paul Volcker, who warned him ahead of time his fix to inflation would be quite painful. Carter said yes anyway, because unlike Nixon, he actually cared about the good of the country. Raising interest rates to near 20% sent the economy into free fall, but it did fix the inflation problem.

So yeah, everybody loves to dump on Carter, but his chosen Fed chairman’s policies eventually ended the multi-year >10% inflation crisis.

Some people are upset at Biden for over-spending for pandemic relief… but the vast majority of that spending was under Trump… and his PPP loans turned out to be just free money for rich people who mostly didn’t need it.

I do think the Fed screwed up when they dropped interest rates at the beginning of the pandemic. Banks didn’t need help. Businesses didn’t need loans… what were they gonna spend it on anyway with everything shut down? Direct money to the unemployed was the best way to help. And that should have been the extent of it. Keep rates the same, give out money to the unemployed.

And look what happened: despite the shutdown, the economy just had a temporary dip and quickly recovered. The problem was, it didn’t actually recover. The cheap/free money and the huge PPP loans created a mirage. Once the economy REALLY started to recover, the Fed and the PPP program money created a huge bubble.

Now, the Fed is independent, but I do think Biden should have pressured them to raise rates sooner. That being said, who wants to be the one to tell them to do something that might lead to a recession? Carter cared more about fixing it than about getting re-elected, and he fixed it and didn’t get re-elected.

PS - I am about your age and was also too young to remember Carter too well, but I have done quite a bit of reading about it over the years, as well as discussions with family members.

 

[Herdfan]

Heard an interesting bit of history that Biden was instrumental to getting Jimmy Carter elected president. On so many levels you could say Biden’s presidency is Carter 2.0. I was too young to know what was going on when Carter was president but I do know he was one of our most unpopular presidents which included a gas crisis and the economy being in shambles. At the time the establishment felt the country just needed a middle of the road moderate after Nixon. Sound familiar?

Also of note, the stated goal of the fed currently is to raise unemployment and decrease wages. Biden supports whatever action the fed decides to take 100%. So we’ve gone from getting nothing done to just giving most people the middle finger.

Actually the gas crisis pre-dated Carter by a couple of years. I do remember only being able to fill up one car on even days and the other on odd based on license plate number. This was in response to long lines.

Carter was a good man, just not a good President.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

America was in the midst of far worse inflation than today when Carter was elected. Nixon actually made inflation worse during his time in office, pressuring the Fed to keep loaning out cheap money despite the inflation, and giving out more Social Security because he thought it would help him win re-election… of course he never got that chance as we all know now.

Carter picked Paul Volcker, who warned him ahead of time his fix to inflation would be quite painful. Carter said yes anyway, because unlike Nixon, he actually cared about the good of the country. Raising interest rates to near 20% sent the economy into free fall, but it did fix the inflation problem.

So yeah, everybody loves to dump on Carter, but his chosen Fed chairman’s policies eventually ended the multi-year >10% inflation crisis.

Some people are upset at Biden for over-spending for pandemic relief… but the vast majority of that spending was under Trump… and his PPP loans turned out to be just free money for rich people who mostly didn’t need it.

I do think the Fed screwed up when they dropped interest rates at the beginning of the pandemic. Banks didn’t need help. Businesses didn’t need loans… what were they gonna spend it on anyway with everything shut down? Direct money to the unemployed was the best way to help. And that should have been the extent of it. Keep rates the same, give out money to the unemployed.

And look what happened: despite the shutdown, the economy just had a temporary dip and quickly recovered. The problem was, it didn’t actually recover. The cheap/free money and the huge PPP loans created a mirage. Once the economy REALLY started to recover, the Fed and the PPP program money created a huge bubble.

Now, the Fed is independent, but I do think Biden should have pressured them to raise rates sooner. That being said, who wants to be the one to tell them to do something that might lead to a recession? Carter cared more about fixing it than about getting re-elected, and he fixed it and didn’t get re-elected.

PS - I am about your age and was also too young to remember Carter too well, but I have done quite a bit of reading about it over the years, as well as discussions with family members.

The difference is this time around by the time the fed fixes it (as if the fed and interest rates is the only tool available in the shed) we’ll probably be living in an authoritarian dictatorship. This is far worse than just Biden not getting a second term and the Democrats have no “electable” plan B. They’re way too obsessed with white swing voters and won’t even mention diversity strengths just so they don’t potentially piss off white swing voters. By going down this path they are handing over minority rule. In some kind of sick irony Republicans are perfectly free to openly court minority groups but when Democrats do it here comes the “radical left!” and replacement theory cannons.

 

[Yoused]

By contrast, I remember Carter quite well. In HS, we had a statewide mock D convention in '76, and Jimmy even made an appearance to speak before us. It was kind of a hostile crowd, though (but we were polite enough to him). We mostly felt that he was too conservative and, IIRC, chose Edward M instead.

Carter arrived in the WH with a stated agenda of paring the cruft in the government. To accomplish that, he hired the wrong people and his great goal went plouff. By '78, no one remembered any of that. He seemed like a decent guy (with a really goofy brother) but there were few positives to his term. Biden seems like a decent guy too.

Elsewhere, some person spoke of the Lincoln Savings and Loan scandal of the early '90s: Carter (you Libs love him, amiright) apparent put in the policy (deregulation) that allowed that to happen. In many ways, the practical ones, he was a whisker to the left of Reagan. And that is what we can expect for as long as this-here "system" remains in place. The Rs will provide us with people who are nominally capable of wiping their nethers when they need to while the Ds will give us ciphers who praisethe Rs for being able to do that.

 

[SuperMatt]

Carter was a good man, just not a good President.

A lot of people say this, but I think they’ve got it partially wrong.

He was a good man and a decent President. He wasn’t a good politician. He didn’t really care about getting re-elected. If he did, he never would have agreed to the Paul Volcker fix to inflation that ended up fixing the problem.

 

[GermanSuplex]

Trump had god-awful poll numbers and still got well over 70 million votes. And that was with a chunk of people who worship him and can never admit to him doing any wrong. Democrats are far more likely to call out their own side or show dissatisfaction with another dem, so I'm not entirely surprised to see Biden's numbers where they are. First term, coming out of two years of COVID hell... he had a really good first year and his momentum was stalled. He's not even halfway through his term, so we'll see what ultimately happens. I'm just thankful there's a normal adult in the room, not an egotistical criminal windbag.

 

[SuperMatt]

Trump had god-awful poll numbers and still got well over 70 million votes. And that was with a chunk of people who worship him and can never admit to him doing any wrong. Democrats are far more likely to call out their own side or show dissatisfaction with another dem, so I'm not entirely surprised to see Biden's numbers where they are. First term, coming out of two years of COVID hell... he had a really good first year and his momentum was stalled. He's not even halfway through his term, so we'll see what ultimately happens. I'm just thankful there's a normal adult in the room, not an egotistical criminal windbag.

I wonder if the Republicans will learn from Trump’s defeat in the 2024 primaries. We’ve seen that their primary voters went for the biggest, most offensive windbag in the race in 2016. If Trump doesn’t run, that would most likely be DeSantis. The thing is, if they pick another person who is basically Trump 2.0, I think it will push Democrats to turn out, even if they’re not overwhelmingly happy with Biden. If Republicans pick some non-offensive, middle-of-the-road candidate, and Democrats are unhappy with Biden, they might just stay home, and independents might vote “R” in 2024.

I hope they DO try to run the craziest candidate possible, so they can lose “bigly” in 2024 and maybe start to realize that appealing to the nuttiest members of their base isn’t a winning strategy. 2016 appears to have been an anomaly - backlash to 8 years of a black president, and a decade-long campaign against Clinton.

 

[Yoused]

I hope they DO try to run the craziest candidate possible, so they can lose “bigly” in 2024

This is most certainly not a thing you should hope for. You see, the voters, in aggregate, do not look at mental balance, they look at account balance (their own). If things look shitty and likely to get shittier, the voters tend to move away from the status quo and toward the other guys. WJB Clinton had a sign in his campaign HQ that said "It's the Economy, Stupid" – the people do not vote on the candidate, other than that their own prospects are great or sucky (there are those as do, but those are not most voters).

We got Reagan in '80 because the economy sucked. Then it sort of recovered, and because of that, the Rs have cultivated the idea that they are better on economic issues. Too many people actually believe that. Worse yet is that the media is a business, that relies on other business for their revenue, and when a cornerstone of R policy is deregulation, which businesses love, the media will downplay Rinsanity because their sponsors want the R goodies.

So please fail to hope for the worst possible R candidate, because that PoS might not actually lose – especially with the way the Rs have been wrenching on the ballot box.

 

[ronntaylor]

I hope they DO try to run the craziest candidate possible, so they can lose “bigly” in 2024

That's how we got Mango! And probably how Herschel "Baby Daddy" Walker may win a Senate seat in Georgia. Dems need to put forth their best candidates and fight till the last damn second. Take nothing for granted like Clinton+Obama did in 2016. Like too many Dems did in the most recent off-year elections. We can't forget that The Big Lie led to many election rule shenanigans that will have the GQP certifying or not certifying elections this year.

 

[lizkat]

I know exactly why he got elected. The wall. Calling Mexicans rapists. Calling white power terrorists very fine people. Banning Muslims. Stealing non-white children from their parents.

Fear and hate are big winners with old white people, who overwhelmingly voted for him.

Don't forget misogyny in that laundry list of 2016 "reasons" to have voted for Trump.

 

[JayMysteri0]

After having sit thru two justices cry about everyone being mean to them because everyone knows the court has embraced politics, only to turn around prove everyone was right, I'm in a "who gives a fuck?" mode.

The furthest on the right have always wanted this imaginary glorious civil war, where I am sure they don't factor that THEY themselves may die in, but ( the obedient "trailer park" crowd maybe? ) others die for them.

There's also the old bit about "a dog chasing a car".

Finally, we all know what happens when a bully pushes their victim too far, sometimes it isn't pretty.

Take those three things together.

Conservatives hopped up on the joy of achieving their ultimate goal, some feeling they are backed by their god, will go after more & more. They may get to be completely in charge again, thinking if it wasn't for that unfortunate ( why do people who so believe in their god, somehow don't take a pandemic as a sign from a god that maybe they fucked up while in charge? Really? More than a million lost, and it's "let's move on then" That same crowd wanted to know every last bit of detail for responsibility of Benghazi, but don't bat an eye over the failures in a pandemic ) bit of covid things may have ended differently. It may have, perhaps enough would have been sways to leave the last guy in. My question was always "what then?" He sucked handling a pandemic, cozied up to dictators, let royalty ( think about how abhorrent that should be to the U.S. that left royalty behind ) kill a U.S. citizen, and thinks the run up to Ukraine was a smart move. What happens during the next crisis? An important element of far right republic governing is to not govern but run on causes, and blame others for any governmental or their own failures. Remove those crutches & the administration fucks up again, then what?

Do they get that revolution that their far right have sought so long for? A revolution that happens on their watch, when everything is supposed to be great again. Does the same crowd still go all in on their citizenry having unfettered access to firearms, if they aren't the citizens aligned with them? Or do we repeat California, Reagan, and the Black Panthers all over again with no sense of irony or shame?

I honestly don't believe conservatives going too far, is going to cost them in the mid terms or the next presidential election. Like the abortion issue, this is a long term play. A war of attrition. Chipping at any rights they find distasteful in the name of integrity or whatever other bullshit. This will wear down the majority, making the centrists fall in line, leaving the most progressive out in the wind to fight for everyone else in a losing battle. When the far conservatives finally get their way, shut down the progressives, it will leave only new set of radicals. That supposed "far left" that they are crying about that truly acts like so many "far" organizations does on the right. That reawakens an ANTIFA that becomes the boogeyman the far right conjured up to scare their base. Just think about it, what if a "far left" group acted like anti abortionists? Bill Barr's bussed in secret police would be on duty 24/7, not giving two shits about rights scooping people off the streets again. If we go down that drain I don't think those far of anything will be glad they finally caught that car, because besides the car it's who inside tired of being chased that can be just as dangerous.

It just seems like the sane are fighting a battle with the more popular insane, and it isn't going to end well for anyone not wealthy.

 

[SuperMatt]

I’m not sure the best way to fight back against Roe v Wade.

When it comes to this religious nonsense, the solution is to find the least popular religion. Get that crap on every football field. A lot of teenagers would love to have a crazy Satanist ceremony on the 50-yard line after football games, sticking it to the teachers, parents, etc.

The “free exercise” of religion and “may not establish” are linked absolutely. If you abandon the “establishment clause” then free exercise becomes meaningless. IF the government can fund a religion, then they can write laws in such a way to make sure only SOME religions get that money. That’s why no government money should go to religious groups, period.

We can ban all government money from going to fund abortions and stem cell research, but NOT prevent it from funding extreme fundamentalist churches? WTF!

I’m sick of these fundamentalists running the country.

 

[lizkat]

After having sit thru two justices cry about everyone being mean to them because everyone knows the court has embraced politics, only to turn around prove everyone was right, I'm in a "who gives a fuck?" mode.

The furthest on the right have always wanted this imaginary glorious civil war, where I am sure they don't factor that THEY themselves may die in, but ( the obedient "trailer park" crowd maybe? ) others die for them.

There's also the old bit about "a dog chasing a car".

Finally, we all know what happens when a bully pushes their victim too far, sometimes it isn't pretty.

Take those three things together.

Conservatives hopped up on the joy of achieving their ultimate goal, some feeling they are backed by their god, will go after more & more. They may get to be completely in charge again, thinking if it wasn't for that unfortunate ( why do people who so believe in their god, somehow don't take a pandemic as a sign from a god that maybe they fucked up while in charge? Really? More than a million lost, and it's "let's move on then" That same crowd wanted to know every last bit of detail for responsibility of Benghazi, but don't bat an eye over the failures in a pandemic ) bit of covid things may have ended differently. It may have, perhaps enough would have been sways to leave the last guy in. My question was always "what then?" He sucked handling a pandemic, cozied up to dictators, let royalty ( think about how abhorrent that should be to the U.S. that left royalty behind ) kill a U.S. citizen, and thinks the run up to Ukraine was a smart move. What happens during the next crisis? An important element of far right republic governing is to not govern but run on causes, and blame others for any governmental or their own failures. Remove those crutches & the administration fucks up again, then what?

Do they get that revolution that their far right have sought so long for? A revolution that happens on their watch, when everything is supposed to be great again. Does the same crowd still go all in on their citizenry having unfettered access to firearms, if they aren't the citizens aligned with them? Or do we repeat California, Reagan, and the Black Panthers all over again with no sense of irony or shame?

I honestly don't believe conservatives going too far, is going to cost them in the mid terms or the next presidential election. Like the abortion issue, this is a long term play. A war of attrition. Chipping at any rights they find distasteful in the name of integrity or whatever other bullshit. This will wear down the majority, making the centrists fall in line, leaving the most progressive out in the wind to fight for everyone else in a losing battle. When the far conservatives finally get their way, shut down the progressives, it will leave only new set of radicals. That supposed "far left" that they are crying about that truly acts like so many "far" organizations does on the right. That reawakens an ANTIFA that becomes the boogeyman the far right conjured up to scare their base. Just think about it, what if a "far left" group acted like anti abortionists? Bill Barr's bussed in secret police would be on duty 24/7, not giving two shits about rights scooping people off the streets again. If we go down that drain I don't think those far of anything will be glad they finally caught that car, because besides the car it's who inside tired of being chased that can be just as dangerous.

It just seems like the sane are fighting a battle with the more popular insane, and it isn't going to end well for anyone not wealthy.

The sane Republicans are (belatedly) concerned about this. They leaned on taking down Roe v Wade for decades in hopes that it would keep their base energized enough to re-elect at least the red state Senators. Once they got Trump in there and the manipulated "luck" of getting to pick three SCOTUS justices, they've probably bit off more than they can chew.

The country is to the left of the courts now by a wide margin on a number of issues, not just on guns and abortion. Yet there is pressure from the elected right wing GOP to keep the base lined up... hence now pressure to keep going, turn back the clock on more of the civil rights acknowledged by the legislature and judiciary in the last 60 years.

Sure, Kavanaugh in particular was careful to say the Roe overturn won't spill over to rolling back other rights essentially linked to the Fourteenth Amendment by Roe and further building out of our understandings of human rights. But then Kavanaugh lied to Collins and the nation in his confirmation hearings anyway, so what's another lie in the era of Big Lies made acceptable by our acceptance of 20k+ lies uttered by Trump during his presidency.

I really don't know how this country will manage to stuff Big Lie acceptance back into Pandora's box. I scoffed years ago when Time Magazine ran some issue with a cover that spoke to "Everybody Does it" w/ respect to lying. And they were only talking about people cheating on income taxes and touching up little gaps in their resumés when job hunting. I also scoffed at the idea that this country would elect a schmuck like Donald Trump. So I feel like I'm batting zero on understanding my countrymen, and I would no more predict how 2022 and 2024 elections might turn out than I'd predict next week's weather even WITH the world's improved ability to make pinpoint weather forecasts with great accuracy nowadays. I have a huge blind spot, and I think it has to do with an assumption that people essentially have a moral compass based in the Golden Rule. Pretty sure that's gone now.... too many people now figure they can say and do whatever they want, and if it doesn't work out, just buy another gun.

 

[SuperMatt]

The sane Republicans are (belatedly) concerned about this. They leaned on taking down Roe v Wade for decades in hopes that it would keep their base energized enough to re-elect at least the red state Senators. Once they got Trump in there and the manipulated "luck" of getting to pick three SCOTUS justices, they've probably bit off more than they can chew.

The country is to the left of the courts now by a wide margin on a number of issues, not just on guns and abortion. Yet there is pressure from the elected right wing GOP to keep the base lined up... hence now pressure to keep going, turn back the clock on more of the civil rights acknowledged by the legislature and judiciary in the last 60 years.

Sure, Kavanaugh in particular was careful to say the Roe overturn won't spill over to rolling back other rights essentially linked to the Fourteenth Amendment by Roe and further building out of our understandings of human rights. But then Kavanaugh lied to Collins and the nation in his confirmation hearings anyway, so what's another lie in the era of Big Lies made acceptable by our acceptance of 20k+ lies uttered by Trump during his presidency.

I really don't know how this country will manage to stuff Big Lie acceptance back into Pandora's box. I scoffed years ago when Time Magazine ran some issue with a cover that spoke to "Everybody Does it" w/ respect to lying. And they were only talking about people cheating on income taxes and touching up little gaps in their resumés when job hunting. I also scoffed at the idea that this country would elect a schmuck like Donald Trump. So I feel like I'm batting zero on understanding my countrymen, and I would no more predict how 2022 and 2024 elections might turn out than I'd predict next week's weather even WITH the world's improved ability to make pinpoint weather forecasts with great accuracy nowadays. I have a huge blind spot, and I think it has to do with an assumption that people essentially have a moral compass based in the Golden Rule. Pretty sure that's gone now.... too many people now figure they can say and do whatever they want, and if it doesn't work out, just buy another gun.

The court’s approval was recently above 50%. It’s now at the lowest level in the history of polling (starting in 1973) - 25%.

Most people want the right to an abortion. The number of religious people is shrinking. People are tired of more and more mass shootings with the government doing the opposite of what should be done.

This court is doing the exact opposite of what most people want. This is untenable. If elections cannot solve this, it will get solved one way or another. I certainly hope it gets solved by elections, because the alternatives are not pretty.

 

[GermanSuplex]

Don't know how much it will help his approval rating, but getting a gun control bill signed into law is a huge victory. Yes, its not everything that needs to be done, but this "all or nothing" approach to politics is yet another thing that's killing us. I mean, its great that a bipartisan group of senators worked together to get something done.... but that's their fucking job. Should be happening all the time. The way the gun bill was passed is supposed to be how things work, not the exception.

But that's a different subject. Bottom line, its another notch in Biden's belt.

He needs another Supreme Court pick. Maybe old Clarence will kick the bucket. Maybe by then he'll have successfully overturned all the laws, effectively banning himself from being able to lie in state at the Capitol, since that will probably go back to being a whites-only privilege. Maybe they'll grant him an exception, or Trump can let him lie in state at Moron-Lardo. For a fee, of course.

 

[lizkat]

The court’s approval was recently above 50%. It’s now at the lowest level in the history of polling (starting in 1973) - 25%.

Most people want the right to an abortion. The number of religious people is shrinking. People are tired of more and more mass shootings with the government doing the opposite of what should be done.

This court is doing the exact opposite of what most people want. This is untenable. If elections cannot solve this, it will get solved one way or another. I certainly hope it gets solved by elections, because the alternatives are not pretty.

Ol' Clarence does seem to be painting his party (never mind his family) into some interesting corners lately. A few cracks may be widening now though, and not just on the right side of the bench where Kavanaugh seems to be clearing his throat and suggesting that the Roe overturn is a one-off, not just a prelude to a bunch more rollbacks of previously acknowledged rights.

It's possible that Kavanaugh might only be doing another demo of "Don't believe a thing I say when I'm not actually casting a vote on a case" so who knows.

Meanwhile however on the legislative side, Republican pols in potential swing districts had long counted on Roe to hold, because it let them pitch to anti-choice voters without ever having to deal with what they face now, which is a bunch of really pissed off pro-choice constituents --Rs, Ds, indies-- never mind the companies they work for.

Larger corporations in particular have a lot of issues to sort out now, with respect to new state abortion bans versus their employee health insurance policies, and hence with respect to how attractive those companies will be going forward in the eyes of current and future employees.

It's a mess. It's everything Roberts had tried before now to avoid, in terms of a right-leaning court not going so far as to make decisions that would strike this hard against the grain of public opinion on a high profile issue.

None of this is going to help Biden if the Rs manage to make inflation and "Dems soft on crime" the issue for November 2022.

 

[SuperMatt]

It's possible that Kavanaugh might only be doing another demo of "Don't believe a thing I say when I'm not actually casting a vote on a case" so who knows.

100% this. Multiple friends and family members of mine saw his hearing and, at the time, felt his crying was an act and that nothing he says should ever be trusted. They have been proven correct in their assessment.

 

[Eric]

Wow

71 percent don’t want Biden to run for reelection: poll

Seven in 10 Americans say they do not want President Biden to run for a second term, according to a new poll that comes as Biden’s approval numbers remain low and his party braces for losses …

thehill.com

Seven in 10 Americans say they do not want President Biden to run for a second term, according to a new poll that comes as Biden’s approval numbers remain low and his party braces for losses this November.

A Harvard CAPS–Harris Poll survey shared exclusively with The Hill found that 71 percent of respondents polled do not think Biden should run for a second term, compared to 29 percent who say he should run.

Among the contingent of respondents who believe the president should not run, 45 percent said Biden should not make another bid because he is a bad president, while about one-third of respondents said he is too old and about one-quarter said because it is time for a change.

 

[JayMysteri0]

Wow

71 percent don’t want Biden to run for reelection: poll

Seven in 10 Americans say they do not want President Biden to run for a second term, according to a new poll that comes as Biden’s approval numbers remain low and his party braces for losses …

thehill.com

To me, I always ask the same question to anyone saying Biden shouldn't run.

Then who should?

Who is going to have a broad appeal? Because every time someone mentions a choice that will only appeal to a slice of the party, and offend the others. This focus on Biden shouldn't run, but not saying who should run instead, is just opening up to repeating the situation with Hilary. It becomes an out for those who sit on their hands because they didn't get their specific candidate, but bitch about the choice that was made available to all.