Black on Asian Crime in the Bay Area

Eric

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Choose one, any, or all. All from the Bay Area.

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1389804358406180871/

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1554482335827066880/

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1511139896437587968/

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1508882658448740358/

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1385680329596293120/

Enough? I can provide (many) more if you think you need it. I'm saddened I have to look at these again just to make this point, Matt. The issue is real whether you choose to believe it or not.
 
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Eric

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Going to split this up so the rest show up inline. BTW for the sake of transparency I did a simple search on Twitter for "san francisco asian attack" to get all of these results, to which there are many more not listed in this post. If you want to go through them to see if any of the attackers are white then have at, these were just the top results and all are black people.

Additionally, if you make the same search on Google with news sources, you'll get full stories behind them as well.

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1529828503557767168/

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1243197240316960773/

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1416280687062048769/

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1360036336904724485/

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1374407175599136772/
 

Eric

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Others have provided sources showing that most anti-Asian hate crimes are committed by white people. You claim that anti-Asian crimes in SF are “almost exclusively” committed by black people.

Perhaps you could provide a source of data showing that anti-Asian crimes in the Bay Area are committed ”almost exclusively” by black people?
Done as requested, and your silence is here is deafening but I'll take it as your concession.
 

ronntaylor

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Done as requested, and your silence is here is deafening but I'll take it as your concession.
Where have you provided data? You posted videos. I'm familiar with at least 2/3 videos of white perps that you didn't include. And all of the videos you posted is a fraction of the anti-Asian crimes committed. So he's still waiting on you:

Perhaps you could provide a source of data showing that anti-Asian crimes in the Bay Area are committed ”almost exclusively” by black people?
 

Eric

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Where have you provided data? You posted videos. I'm familiar with at least 2/3 videos of white perps that you didn't include. And all of the videos you posted is a fraction of the anti-Asian crimes committed. So he's still waiting on you:
If you refuse to actually look at the videos I can't help you here, and you want MORE supporting data proving these poor Asian people are being viciously attacked? I've provided these as source, none of it's fake and the search returned exactly what you see, none of it is cherry picked.

If you want to provide some where white people are also doing it in the bay area then do it, nobody is stopping you, in fact I would welcome it. Let's see that 2/3.
 

ronntaylor

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If you refuse to actually look at the videos I can't help you here, and you want MORE supporting data proving these poor Asian people are being viciously attacked? I've provided these as source, none of it's fake and the search returned exactly what you see, none of it is cherry picked.

If you want to provide some where white people are also doing it in the bay area then do it, nobody is stopping you, in fact I would welcome it. Let's see that 2/3.
I'm not the one saying I've provided data, you are. @SuperMatt asked for data, not videos. You could've moved the goalposts as you've already done in this thread and said you'll provide videos instead of data.

On this very forum I remember at least two videos of white assailants assaulting Asians that were posted:

1. The 70-something Asian San Fran grandmother that whooped her 30-something white assailant (and later donated most of her GoFundMe monies to charities) -- Okay, the attack wasn't filmed, but the immediate aftermath was with the elderly woman's bruised face and the assailant on a gurney. An off-duty reporter witnessed the end of the attack and counter attack.

2. An Asian woman exercising on park stairs was pushed and told to "leave the state," "leave this world" by an elderly white woman that bragged her police affiliated relative (daughter?) would be sicced on the victim;

2a. Eight months earlier that same white assailant assaulted an Asian woman who was admonishing her for verbally accosting a mall janitor. Despite filing a report, this victim only had prosecutorial and police action commence after the park attack. I can't remember if the video was posted here, but at the very least stills were in the post and the link to the article and video was included

*3. A Japanese man and his son had their car blocked and backed into by the same deranged elderly white woman while she spewed anti-white hate.

* this last one may not be posted here, but at the other place around the same time as incidents 2 & 2a were posted here. Can't remember if it was mentioned here.
 

Eric

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I'm not the one saying I've provided data, you are. @SuperMatt asked for data, not videos. You could've moved the goalposts as you've already done in this thread and said you'll provide videos instead of data.
If videos of the crimes in action aren't "data" then you'll never be convinced. It's like asking if the sky is blue on a clear day and instead of simply looking up you're demanding some other proof.

On this very forum I remember at least two videos of white assailants assaulting Asians that were posted:

1. The 70-something Asian San Fran grandmother that whooped her 30-something white assailant (and later donated most of her GoFundMe monies to charities) -- Okay, the attack wasn't filmed, but the immediate aftermath was with the elderly woman's bruised face and the assailant on a gurney. An off-duty reporter witnessed the end of the attack and counter attack.

2. An Asian woman exercising on park stairs was pushed and told to "leave the state," "leave this world" by an elderly white woman that bragged her police affiliated relative (daughter?) would be sicced on the victim;

2a. Eight months earlier that same white assailant assaulted an Asian woman who was admonishing her for verbally accosting a mall janitor. Despite filing a report, this victim only had prosecutorial and police action commence after the park attack. I can't remember if the video was posted here, but at the very least stills were in the post and the link to the article and video was included

*3. A Japanese man and his son had their car blocked and backed into by the same deranged elderly white woman while she spewed anti-white hate.

* this last one may not be posted here, but at the other place around the same time as incidents 2 & 2a were posted here. Can't remember if it was mentioned here.
Hardly 2/3 and this is all anecdotal. However, I'll concede that I'm sure it's not exclusively black, but it's the only actual evidence we see here in the bay area and it occurs on a regular basis. We always say things like "why doesn't the good cop stand up" or "why doesn't the good Republican stand up" but we're totally dismissing what are clearly senseless racist attacks on these people.
 

ronntaylor

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Hardly 2/3 and this is all anecdotal.

2/3 denotes 2 or 3, not two-thirds; afterall, I included "at least two videos" in my response. So those 2 or 3 videos posted here immediately came to my mind. That's not anecdotal, that's actual videos posted here on your forum. You stated that "in every single one of these cases it's black boys or men attacking" based on your anecdotal evidence. It was refuted and/or challenged by others (including me) with data, some of which you even posted even when it contradicted the point that you were trying to make. Which leads to

If videos of the crimes in action aren't "data" then you'll never be convinced.
DATA : factual information (such as measurements or statistics) used as a basis for reasoning, discussion, or calculation

Someone asked for a source of data backing up your claim "that anti-Asian crimes in the Bay Area are committed ”almost exclusively” by black people?" so it's you answering "Is the sky blue?" by shouting "Look over there instead!"
 

Eric

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2/3 denotes 2 or 3, not two-thirds; afterall, I included "at least two videos" in my response. So those 2 or 3 videos posted here immediately came to my mind. That's not anecdotal, that's actual videos posted here on your forum. You stated that "in every single one of these cases it's black boys or men attacking" based on your anecdotal evidence. It was refuted and/or challenged by others (including me) with data, some of which you even posted even when it contradicted the point that you were trying to make. Which leads to


DATA : factual information (such as measurements or statistics) used as a basis for reasoning, discussion, or calculation

Someone asked for a source of data backing up your claim "that anti-Asian crimes in the Bay Area are committed ”almost exclusively” by black people?" so it's you answering "Is the sky blue?" by shouting "Look over there instead!"
JFC, there's just no having a rational conversation when you guys get hellbent on defending the indefensible. If you don't get it by watching the actual crime you never will. I've clearly made my point here and neither of you have even come close to successfully refuting it.

Meanwhile, this is a very real problem that needs to be addressed. You all may be okay with giving these criminals a free pass because of the color of their skin but most are not. No matter who they are they need to be prosecuted.
 

ronntaylor

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JFC, there's just no having a rational conversation when you guys get hellbent on defending the indefensible. If you don't get it by watching the actual crime you never will. I've clearly made my point here and neither of you have even come close to successfully refuting it.

Meanwhile, this is a very real problem that needs to be addressed. You all may be okay with giving these criminals a free pass because of the color of their skin but most are not. No matter who they are they need to be prosecuted.
I see you're resorting to your SOP. You are illogical and can't back up what you're posting. So you lash out. Make accusations made out of whole cloth against posters. The "You're all racists" tirade coming from an alleged "BLM supporter" is brilliant. Guess we should be happy you didn't toss out Nigger. Well, at least publicly. I guess your next step is to close the thread like you've done in the past. Whatever Arn! 🤷‍♂️
 

Eric

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I see you're resorting to your SOP. You are illogical and can't back up what you're posting. So you lash out. Make accusations made out of whole cloth against posters. The "You're all racists" tirade coming from an alleged "BLM supporter" is brilliant. Guess we should be happy you didn't toss out Nigger. Well, at least publicly. I guess your next step is to close the thread like you've done in the past. Whatever Arn! 🤷‍♂️
Your POV and you're entitled to it but I will just ask that you please stop using the N word here, which you've done several times now, we should all agree it's never acceptable.
 

Nycturne

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If videos of the crimes in action aren't "data" then you'll never be convinced. It's like asking if the sky is blue on a clear day and instead of simply looking up you're demanding some other proof.

The problem is that a video of a crime is an anecdote. It is evidence in the sense that particular event happened, but it isn’t data. And the plural of anecdote isn’t data either. The reason why it isn’t sufficient evidence is because individual events can be cherry-picked to present a picture that doesn’t match the underlying reality. It doesn’t even necessarily happen intentionally, but it could be the effect of forms of selection bias that social media helps create (the folks you follow, who they follow, etc). So if you are drawing a generalization out of the anecdotal evidence on display, that amounts to a logical fallacy in the argument.

It also happens to be the very tactic that’s been used to smear many minorities: drawing generalizations from incomplete or intentionally cherry-picked evidence to paint a group as a source of a problem, inherently dangerous, etc.

we're totally dismissing what are clearly senseless racist attacks on these people.

I don’t think anyone is. That’s not the part that people have a problem with.
 

Eric

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The problem is that a video of a crime is an anecdote. It is evidence in the sense that particular event happened, but it isn’t data. And the plural of anecdote isn’t data either. The reason why it isn’t sufficient evidence is because individual events can be cherry-picked to present a picture that doesn’t match the underlying reality. It doesn’t even necessarily happen intentionally, but it could be the effect of forms of selection bias that social media helps create (the folks you follow, who they follow, etc). So if you are drawing a generalization out of the anecdotal evidence on display, that amounts to a logical fallacy in the argument.

It also happens to be the very tactic that’s been used to smear many minorities: drawing generalizations from incomplete or intentionally cherry-picked evidence to paint a group as a source of a problem, inherently dangerous, etc.



I don’t think anyone is. That’s not the part that people have a problem with.
I was clear about how I obtained the videos, I searched for "San Francisco Asian attack", nothing was cherry picked and I deliberately left out the word black. Anyone who wants to refute this is welcome to if you are able, again I welcome it. But to point to a statistical document that doesn't even touch what we are actually seeing in the streets is hardly a real comparison.

You guys can point fingers at me and try to nitpick what is "data" and what is not but this is the reality in the bay area no matter how you slice it and I've showed that here. This is not a generalization, it's an onslaught of black on Asian crime and nobody in this thread has been able to prove otherwise.

Additionally, when you see a person beating the shit out of an elderly person who is just walking down the street or sitting at a bus stop it's hardly "anecdotal" it doesn't get any more real than that.
 

Citysnaps

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It also happens to be the very tactic that’s been used to smear many minorities: drawing generalizations from incomplete or intentionally cherry-picked evidence to paint a group as a source of a problem, inherently dangerous, etc.

Truth.

I have yet to EVER see an upside where one group of *people* has been pitted against another group of people. That's right out of the trump playbook; his outrageous lie that thousands and thousands of Muslims were cheering from New Jersey rooftops during 911, comes to mind.

That's all I've got to say. I'm taking a time out.
 

Eric

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Truth.

I have yet to EVER see an upside where one group of *people* has been pitted against another group of people. That's right out of the trump playbook; his outrageous lie that thousands and thousands of Muslims were cheering from New Jersey rooftops during 911, comes to mind.

That's all I've got to say. I'm taking a time out.
Conversely, I don't see an upside to a group being assaulted to the point of being afraid to simply walk to the store, but it's the hand they're dealt on the streets right now.
 

Nycturne

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I was clear about how I obtained the videos, I searched for "San Francisco Asian attack", nothing was cherry picked and I deliberately left out the word black. Anyone who wants to refute this is welcome to if you are able, again I welcome it. But to point to a statistical document that doesn't even touch what we are actually seeing in the streets is hardly a real comparison.

There’s a reason why people point to statistical documents rather than individual events. Ironically, when talking about trends and the behaviors of large groups of people (and clearly, SF counts as a very large group of people), statistical analysis is precisely the tool you want to use.

I wasn’t even claiming you cherry-picked anything, but rather collecting videos like this and presenting them doesn’t properly account for the biases present in how the search algorithm works (which tends to mix engagement as a variable when deciding what to push to the top, and not just bubble up a true random sample), or the biases present in this sort of reporting, or the potential malfeasance of individuals reporting videos with misleading information (i.e. inaccurately stating where it happened). At best you’ve provided a random sample of events without controlling for the variables, and taken it at face value.

It’s enough for me to say “Yes these happened”, but not enough to say “This is representative of SF”. And the latter is the whole crux of the claim you are making.

You guys can point fingers at me and try to nitpick what is "data" and what is not but this is the reality in the bay area no matter how you slice it and I've showed that here. This is not a generalization, it's an onslaught of black on Asian crime and nobody in this thread has been able to prove otherwise.

It isn’t a nitpick if the source of your claim hinges on accepting that these videos represent the whole and are statistically valid (which is what you are saying, even if you claim it isn’t about statistics). And it’s a logical fallacy to do so.

But this also represents a clear burden of proof issue. You are making a positive claim, and asking that people refute it based on anecdotal evidence you have provided. People even provided some contradictory evidence that suggests on larger scales (being the total of hate crimes reported to authorities in SF), the claim doesn’t have merit. But you simply refuse it and refer back to your anecdotal evidence.

Your arguments also represent an appeal to emotion. Yes, what Asian Americans are facing in the wake of the pandemic is tragic, but your claim isn’t limited to that, you are making a claim that a specific group of people are primarily responsible. We can very much empathize with the victims without agreeing with the generalization being made.

Additionally, when you see a person beating the shit out of an elderly person who is just walking down the street or sitting at a bus stop it's hardly "anecdotal" it doesn't get any more real than that.

An anecdote is an interesting story about a real event or person (for differing meanings of “interesting”). It’s not a statement of the validity of the video or the events in it, or if it is real. But it isn’t the same level of evidence when talking about activities happening at scale.

The difference here is that something like this is absolutely useful in a court of law to use against the perpetrator(s). But it’s not enough to tell us much about the trend of the rise in hate crime on its own. It doesn‘t meet the required burden for me.

At this point, I don’t think there’s much more to say.
 

Citysnaps

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Conversely, I don't see an upside to a group being assaulted to the point of being afraid to simply walk to the store, but it's the hand they're dealt on the streets right now.

So much for my time out...

Of course, there's no upside to that. Never claimed there was. But that doesn't logically dovetail with the point I was trying to make.

It *sounds like* you're trying to broad brush a large segment of the US population as majority perpetrators of Asian-American hate crime in San Francisco.

Tell me precisely what the upside, or point, is in publicly making that assertion? Is it a public service announcement to be wary of Black people when out and about in San Francisco?

If I have that wrong (I'm grasping at straws), please tell me what the reason is (the upside) and how it benefits others in making that public assertion.

I can see loads of downsides, and for sure adverse consequences, in making such assertions.
 
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Eric

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So much for my time out...

Of course, there's no upside to that. Never claimed there was. But that doesn't logically dovetail with the point I was trying to make.

It *sounds like* you're trying to broad brush a large segment of the US population as majority perpetrators of Asian-American hate crime in San Francisco.

Tell me precisely what the upside, or point, is in publicly making that assertion? Is it a public service announcement to be wary of Black people when out and about in San Francisco?

If I have that wrong (I'm grasping at straws), please tell me what the reason is (the upside) and how it benefits others in making that public assertion.

I can see loads of downsides, and for sure adverse consequences, in making such assertions.
If you've read through my posts in this thread you would know that is absolutely NOT the case, in fact when it was first pointed out to me by Jay that it appeared that way I conceded the point and clarified the bay area only, even going back and changing the title of this post.

The point is, again in the bay area, every case they show either on social media or the local news of Asian abuse is perpetrated by black people. It is a systemic problem that needs to be called out in order to be addressed, I get it's not a popular view but it is a fact. It would be nice to see those with clout in the black community come out and say something about it, but clearly we can't even get others to admit to what they're physically seeing with their own eyes.

Asian people are being attacked, nobody ever says "stop saying it's just Asian people" even when it is indeed Asian people. So why should the perpetrators get a free pass on this? It's not a blanket statement, nobody in this thread has been able to prove otherwise after I provide the requested proof.
 

Citysnaps

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The point is, again in the bay area, every case they show either on social media or the local news of Asian abuse is perpetrated by black people.

And white people as well. Why are you giving them a pass?

but clearly we can't even get others to admit to what they're physically seeing with their own eyes.

It's not about admitting. What I saw when Asian hate crime were frequently occurring awhile back were white and black perpetrators, as I noted way up above. That was from watching local SF-based newscasts *every* *single* *day*, as I have been doing for decades. Obviously I'm offering my observations anecdotally, rather than looking for specific videos in order to make a case or to "prove" a point.

Asian people are being attacked, nobody ever says "stop saying it's just Asian people" even when it is indeed Asian people.

Of course not, as it's a particular group of people under racially motivated attack in violation of laws and social norms. There's no equivalency in your assertion.

So why should the perpetrators get a free pass on this? It's not a blanket statement, nobody in this thread has been able to prove otherwise after I provide the requested proof.

It is a blanket statement as you are calling out black people in general, and demanding their "community" do something about it. How about making similar demands on the white "community" as whites are also committing attacks (of course I'm being silly as there are no monolithic communities representing all whites or all blacks). If you believe black people are getting a "free pass," then white people are as well, as they too are committing attacks.
 
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Citysnaps

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Turning this into problem targeting a single group of people is a mistake. One that will spawn adverse consequences. And will only further divide rather than unite.
 
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