constitutional republic america. we are fools.

niji

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its now been made clear that the trump administration is talking with swing states that are controlled by republicans, to ignore the popular vote within the state to choose a slate of electors, and, if that is not sufficient, then to change any state rules that need to be changed in order to ensure that the republican controlled state legislature simply just puts forth a trump slate of electors. period.

yes, millions will march on Washington.
yes, hundreds of legal claims will be made.

and in an adjacent ruling, the supreme court decided an important matter linked to this strategy.
so called "faithless electors" have been decided, once and for all, as unconstitutional
whatever candidate the individual state says should get that state's electors, that's what happens.
no more thinking that an elector might be able to get away with voting her/his conscience.
its a supreme court precedent made just this last term.

constitutional republic america.

and we all thought that it was important to get out the vote.

we are fools.

the only thing left to decide is if a dictator really only is limited to 2 terms.
but that can wait for a few more years.
one coup at a time.
 
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Thomas Veil

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its now been made clear that the trump administration is talking with swing states that are controlled by republicans, to ignore the popular vote within the state to choose a slate of electors, and, if that is not sufficient, then to change any state rules that need to be changed in order to ensure that the republican controlled state legislature simply just puts forth a trump slate of electors. period.
If true this is full-on dictator state stuff. Do you have a link to this?
 

Scepticalscribe

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its now been made clear that the trump administration is talking with swing states that are controlled by republicans, to ignore the popular vote within the state to choose a slate of electors, and, if that is not sufficient, then to change any state rules that need to be changed in order to ensure that the republican controlled state legislature simply just puts forth a trump slate of electors. period.

yes, millions will march on Washington.
yes, hundreds of legal claims will be made.

and in an adjacent ruling, the supreme court decided an important matter linked to this strategy.
so called "faithless electors" have been decided, once and for all, as unconstitutional
whatever candidate the individual state says should get that state's electors, that's what happens.
no more thinking that an elector might be able to get away with voting her/his conscience.
its a supreme court precedent made just this last term.

constitutional republic america.

and we all thought that it was important to get out the vote.

we are fools.

the only thing left to decide is if a dictator really only is limited to 2 terms.
but that can wait for a few more years.
one coup at a time.

Any true, depressing, but entirely predictable.

I have thought that Mr Trump will break any and every law in order to remain in power, up to, and including the suspension of civil liberties.

However, I would be grateful for links, or for clarification as what precise sources are cited in support of this statement.
 

Renzatic

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niji

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Here's one.

And another.

And the recent SCOTUS decision, which is something of a mixed bag, since it requires electors to cast by the popular vote only if their state requires it.

All this considered, if the GOP were to attempt this hail mary approach to keeping Trump in office, the results would be absolute chaos.

thanks for supplying the links

and here is the way it will work:

trump admin has been putting into place the building blocks for many months.
i think probably they began to implement it as PLAN C, after COVID-19 emerged as the #1 issue. and, the divide-america-by-race strategy proved not winnable.

its not about casting doubt on the mail in votes and hyping that its rigged.
all that is fluff for r base followers to rally for and carry their AR-15s on state capitol steps and change the gender of the lock her up slogan for this year's d candidate.

the trump admin has been putting into place a strategy that would try to invalidate the popular election results of swing states.
rigged is the term r rednecks will use.
but co-conspirator barr already is having his justice department begin to investigate pennsylvania "ballots gone missing" , etc etc.

the kind of reasons that will be used in each state will be different depending on the state in order to declare the popular election in that state invalid.

and, at best, the Supremes will be deadlocked 4-4.
this means that the decision of each of the referring circuit courts will stand as ruled at the lower level in that redneck circuit court.
in redneck swing state america there are equally redneck circuit courts.

game over.

democrats will control both houses.
so, trump will issue his Executive-Order-A-Day stuff. so more environmental disaster, more anti-NATO, more Kim loves me stuff.

but at least no more judges will be approved after inauguration day.

Federal-Courts-Map.png
 
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Renzatic

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thanks for supplying the links.

Hey, it's always nice informing people of these exciting times we live in.

It's all left me honestly wondering whether the US will even be here next year. A highly divisive president securing his victory through backroom deals with his own party to swing the election in his favor will not go over well with a lot of people.

And consider that every single one of our battleground states has a Republican administration at its helm? Yeah. It's a recipe for outright fuckery.
 

Thomas Veil

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Here's one.

And another.

And the recent SCOTUS decision, which is something of a mixed bag, since it requires electors to cast by the popular vote only if their state requires it.

All this considered, if the GOP were to attempt this hail mary approach to keeping Trump in office, the results would be absolute chaos.
😳 I’m sorry I asked. I was hoping you were being hyperbolic. I should have known better.

Hey, it's always nice informing people of these exciting times we live in.

It's all left me honestly wondering whether the US will even be here next year.
Allow me to be among the first to say it out loud:

Secession.
 

Alli

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The last two nights, Rachael Maddow has covered all the possibilities, including “stealing” the electoral votes. It is altogether believable and depressing.

Tom, I believe that prior to secession we will see some kind of civil war.
 

Chew Toy McCoy

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Tom, I believe that prior to secession we will see some kind of civil war.

I think this time around there would be way more people from both sides interested in breaking up the country than keeping it together and it would be state by state trying to kick one side out while defending the state borders. I also guarantee Trump would see being the catalyst for this as a positive mark on his legacy. He desires nothing more than being a big mention in history books, good or bad, the proverbial there’s no such thing as bad press.
 

lizkat

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People need to chill out. It's a lot of work to set up a country, never mind get 50 states of the current USA to agree in principle to dissolve the union, form two (or several?) alternate, coherent organizations and then slog through trying to make treaties with each other and with the allies and neighbors of a "former" USA.

Shall Pennsylvania fight with New York over the market for peaches? Maybe Washington state figures it can finally thrash New York in the apple department. Would Alabama rather side with North Carolina or Michigan when it comes to getting a lock on tech hubs of the future?

And as for throwing a civil war instead of just agreeing we don't get along and should try for a different grouping of our states... what, did we not learn anything from the first one this country engaged in? A hundred years later and more, the bitterness persists.

Anyway Biden and Harris aren't interested in inciting a civil war, so once we subtract the constant tweetbox pot-stirring engaged in by Trump, people will settle down, ignore White House press releases about the latest trade tweak with Canada or Mexico, and get back to their usual nearly unanimous loathing of the US Congress.

I would expect folks to force Congress to focus on economic issues including housing and healthcare in the likely lingering aftermath of the pandemic. That might look messy for awhile if the remaining Republican caucuses in both Houses don't realize the time for gaming and stiff-arming is over.

We're not fools to expect a normal transition after the 2020 election, and for our Constitution to remain standing as a coherent guide to how our governance is expected to work. Some legislation might be needed with respect to putting teeth in what used to be norms for the executive branch... now that we realize it's possible to elect a self-serving rogue and extreme narcissist to the presidency, and for him to surround himself with a set of grifters unlike any we've seen since the Harding era.

By the time Trump gets done ranting and ends up decompensating into a blubbering hot mess, blaming everyone on the planet for his post-election predicaments, even Mitch McConnell might be interested in helping craft some better guardrails in case we are ever stupid enough again to let a president imagine for a moment that he's a king.
 

niji

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... He desires nothing more than being a big mention in history books, good or bad, the proverbial there’s no such thing as bad press.

corrupt president
+ an attorney general with his own ethno-political agenda
+ "white non-college educated males"
+ a major (well, at least it used to be) complicit political party with a racist agenda to stay in control
= cat 5 constitutional crisis

vision is needed to help us get out of this.
time for the dems to go totally progressive, not middle of the road.

Where are you now, Delano?
 
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Chew Toy McCoy

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People need to chill out. It's a lot of work to set up a country, never mind get 50 states of the current USA to agree in principle to dissolve the union, form two (or several?) alternate, coherent organizations and then slog through trying to make treaties with each other and with the allies and neighbors of a "former" USA.

Shall Pennsylvania fight with New York over the market for peaches? Maybe Washington state figures it can finally thrash New York in the apple department. Would Alabama rather side with North Carolina or Michigan when it comes to getting a lock on tech hubs of the future?

And as for throwing a civil war instead of just agreeing we don't get along and should try for a different grouping of our states... what, did we not learn anything from the first one this country engaged in? A hundred years later and more, the bitterness persists.

Anyway Biden and Harris aren't interested in inciting a civil war, so once we subtract the constant tweetbox pot-stirring engaged in by Trump, people will settle down, ignore White House press releases about the latest trade tweak with Canada or Mexico, and get back to their usual nearly unanimous loathing of the US Congress.

I would expect folks to force Congress to focus on economic issues including housing and healthcare in the likely lingering aftermath of the pandemic. That might look messy for awhile if the remaining Republican caucuses in both Houses don't realize the time for gaming and stiff-arming is over.

We're not fools to expect a normal transition after the 2020 election, and for our Constitution to remain standing as a coherent guide to how our governance is expected to work. Some legislation might be needed with respect to putting teeth in what used to be norms for the executive branch... now that we realize it's possible to elect a self-serving rogue and extreme narcissist to the presidency, and for him to surround himself with a set of grifters unlike any we've seen since the Harding era.

By the time Trump gets done ranting and ends up decompensating into a blubbering hot mess, blaming everyone on the planet for his post-election predicaments, even Mitch McConnell might be interested in helping craft some better guardrails in case we are ever stupid enough again to let a president imagine for a moment that he's a king.

That’s assuming Biden wins and that trigger happy 2nd amendment supporters have greater concern over the hard work of creating a new country overusing their 2nd amendment rights to rid the earth of some liberals in the meantime.

It took the killing of 1 person to light the fuse of WWI and political turmoil that looks a lot like the US today to open the door to WW2.
 

lizkat

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That’s assuming Biden wins and that trigger happy 2nd amendment supporters have greater concern over the hard work of creating a new country overusing their 2nd amendment rights to rid the earth of some liberals in the meantime.

It took the killing of 1 person to light the fuse of WWI and political turmoil that looks a lot like the US today to open the door to WW2.

What are the 2A-fan anti-USA going to do, ask us about our politics while we all stand on the unemployment lines again after some spike in covid launched a new round of furloughs? Shoot the ones who say "well I voted for Biden but..." ?

We're all in this together in our real lives, despite what we may individually think. Shooting someone of different political opinions won't fix anything but the time of death for the slain and day of arraignment for the shooter.

Trump had part of one thing right, in cautioning people not to believe their own eyes sometimes, although he came to a wrongheaded and narcissistic conclusion about how to deal with such disbelief, i.e, trust him to reveal "the truth." But my point is that social media platforms are not what's driving the actual bus in the USA.

If Facetime were driving the bus, then we wouldn't even still have a Congress empowered to subpoena behemoths to answer questions under oath about inauthentic accounts and foreign-paid trolls gaming the elections of 2016.​

It's a weird loop to be in, using social media to remind people that social media is not more than a snapshot from a moving train at a given moment. But more people should be in that loop if you ask me. The amount of disinformation on social media is often the focus of its critics, but the real problem is simply mistaking the platform as representative of all ordinary folks going about their lives.

The gamut of our emotions might be represented fully on social media all right, but the focus of a preponderance of our individual joys or outrages is invariably more on stuff that's a lot closer to home, rather than on how any one of us along with a gang of like minded folks with guns can force the entire US government and all its people to do exactly what we want after an election (or some key vote in a court of law or in Congress).

The only people who obsess over having powers like are either loners, militia members that the FBI already considers to be domestic terrorists or possibly some of the current crew around Donald Trump. And maybe Trump himself.

Who knows what Trump believes? He pushes BS out there from his Twitter account, but it's hard to believe Trump believes in much of anything past his own imagined omnipotence. He surely believes he needs to be believed, and holds other and similar "infinity of mirrors" views of himself. But he is the only thing in his mirror.

And THAT is what fans of the 2A who still back Trump don't seem to get. He's not worth fighting for because he's not fighting on our side. He's for him, end of story. He'd put all those militia guys in the slam in a heartbeat if he decided that angry guys carrying firesticks were a danger to his plans for an infrastructure contract handout, for instance, one that didn't involve handing any of those guys a job. Maybe it would be cheaper to call up Trudeau and hire some French Canadians...
 

Thomas Veil

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...Tom, I believe that prior to secession we will see some kind of civil war.
Well...we're sort of there already. There's no declaration of war between states, but the red/blue divide gets crazier (and deadlier) every day.

I tend to think they'd be glad to be rid of us. We've been a thorn in their side ever since Reagan. If they think voodoo economics and fascism are ways to run a country, let them have at it.

If there would be a civil war, it wouldn't be over things like state borders or who's in or who's out. It'd be over things like how to split the money that's already in Social Security. They'd probably immediately do away with it in their country, Trumpia, but insist on keeping more than their share of the contributed cash.

God, I hope not.

I like my country a little too much to risk throwing it away for one fuckwit and his lickspittles.
But at some point, as in a divorce, you have to recognize your irreconcilable differences and go your separate ways. There is no chance, to my mind, of reclaiming any of those lost to the tinfoil world of Facebook news, Fox and hate radio, even if Biden wins. So we're getting to the point where we have to ask ourselves: is this all we're ever going to be able to look forward to--increasingly large numbers of angry, impossible-to-reason-with voters dedicating to tearing down America? A cult that makes Scientology look like really small potatoes?

Better we separate. Bring on the US version of Brexit.

I think this time around there would be way more people from both sides interested in breaking up the country than keeping it together and it would be state by state trying to kick one side out while defending the state borders. I also guarantee Trump would see being the catalyst for this as a positive mark on his legacy. He desires nothing more than being a big mention in history books, good or bad, the proverbial there’s no such thing as bad press.
I hadn't thought about Trump being proud of breaking up the country, but that would be so like him.

With regards to the states, I'd hope we'd be good enough to have each state simply vote on which side it would like to be a part of. I think most states pretty much already know where they'd stand.

US-and-Trumpia.jpg

Besides, think of what this'll do for the real estate industry when people start moving to the side of their choice.
 

Alli

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Think of how much money California and New York can charge for importing through their ports (land and sea) and their crops and animals. The south can’t afford to fall again.
 
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