COVID Stupid

Pumbaa

Verified Warthog
Posts
2,564
Reaction score
4,220
Location
Kingdom of Sweden
In the interview the parents say their baby has severe pulmonary valve stenosis, and that he needs surgery “almost immediately”, but that they are “extremely concerned with the blood [the doctors] are going to use”.

“We don’t want blood that is tainted by vaccination,” the father said. “That’s the end of the deal – we are fine with anything else these doctors want to do.”

Covid-19 vaccine bigly bad.

 

Eric

Mama's lil stinker
Posts
11,390
Reaction score
21,966
Location
California
Instagram
Main Camera
Sony
Not going to disrespect her but it's almost infuriating that people are choosing death over prevention.

 

fooferdoggie

Elite Member
Site Donor
Posts
4,459
Reaction score
7,934
of course they are on fox begging someone to help them save their daughter. I mean they can save her but choose not to. they claim they did not know she would need to be vaccinated. come on now way too many cases were in the news over the last three years. They still chose to believe the crap about the vaccination and think its actually worse they dying I guess.

Teen denied kidney transplant because she's not vaccinated for COVID, say parents​

 

AG_PhamD

Elite Member
Posts
1,049
Reaction score
979
Well, after 3 years of both my wife and I working in the healthcare environment, vaccination dose 1, dose 2, booster, bivalent vaccine, etc our luck has finally run out. This past weekend we both tested positive for COVID. It was bound to happen sooner or later.

My symptoms are fairly mild. I didn’t feel great Friday night, took a test, tested negative. Saturday I pretty much slept all day- awful headache, body aches, and sore throat. Sunday morning similar symptoms so I took another test which came back positive knowing the rapid tests don’t sways register immediately. Generally I’ve just had a mild sore throat and a splitting headache which is well managed with ibuprofen. I had some congestion this morning but feel fine now.

My wife developed symptoms Saturday morning. Her symptoms have been worse than mine- days in bed, fever, cough, sinus congestion, etc but things seem to be improving for the two of us. It was nice that many of our friends and family members have sent us care packages.

The most frustrating part of this is that this week is Hanukkah, so most of our plans have been cancelled. We had a bunch of Hanukkah and Christmas parties scheduled. We obviously don’t want to risk infecting our family and friends... there’s always next year. We also had scheduled much of this week off which sucks. Hopefully we’ll be able to catch the tail end of the holidays next week. We’ll have our own party together at home alone I suppose.

I have always said if I catch COVID, it will be at the most in opportune time. That’s just how my life works. I suppose my prediction was right.

Hope everyone (and your families) have a safe, happy, and healthy holiday season!
 

Roller

Elite Member
Posts
1,430
Reaction score
2,776
Well, after 3 years of both my wife and I working in the healthcare environment, vaccination dose 1, dose 2, booster, bivalent vaccine, etc our luck has finally run out. This past weekend we both tested positive for COVID. It was bound to happen sooner or later.

My symptoms are fairly mild. I didn’t feel great Friday night, took a test, tested negative. Saturday I pretty much slept all day- awful headache, body aches, and sore throat. Sunday morning similar symptoms so I took another test which came back positive knowing the rapid tests don’t sways register immediately. Generally I’ve just had a mild sore throat and a splitting headache which is well managed with ibuprofen. I had some congestion this morning but feel fine now.

My wife developed symptoms Saturday morning. Her symptoms have been worse than mine- days in bed, fever, cough, sinus congestion, etc but things seem to be improving for the two of us. It was nice that many of our friends and family members have sent us care packages.

The most frustrating part of this is that this week is Hanukkah, so most of our plans have been cancelled. We had a bunch of Hanukkah and Christmas parties scheduled. We obviously don’t want to risk infecting our family and friends... there’s always next year. We also had scheduled much of this week off which sucks. Hopefully we’ll be able to catch the tail end of the holidays next week. We’ll have our own party together at home alone I suppose.

I have always said if I catch COVID, it will be at the most in opportune time. That’s just how my life works. I suppose my prediction was right.

Hope everyone (and your families) have a safe, happy, and healthy holiday season!
Wishing both of you a speedy recovery and no lingering issues. I know some people say everyone will be infected anyway, so it’s not worth taking precautions, but the fewer the number of episodes, the better. It’s infuriating that this country isn’t spending billions on nasal or pan-coronavirus vaccines. Take care.
 

Eric

Mama's lil stinker
Posts
11,390
Reaction score
21,966
Location
California
Instagram
Main Camera
Sony
Well, after 3 years of both my wife and I working in the healthcare environment, vaccination dose 1, dose 2, booster, bivalent vaccine, etc our luck has finally run out. This past weekend we both tested positive for COVID. It was bound to happen sooner or later.

My symptoms are fairly mild. I didn’t feel great Friday night, took a test, tested negative. Saturday I pretty much slept all day- awful headache, body aches, and sore throat. Sunday morning similar symptoms so I took another test which came back positive knowing the rapid tests don’t sways register immediately. Generally I’ve just had a mild sore throat and a splitting headache which is well managed with ibuprofen. I had some congestion this morning but feel fine now.

My wife developed symptoms Saturday morning. Her symptoms have been worse than mine- days in bed, fever, cough, sinus congestion, etc but things seem to be improving for the two of us. It was nice that many of our friends and family members have sent us care packages.

The most frustrating part of this is that this week is Hanukkah, so most of our plans have been cancelled. We had a bunch of Hanukkah and Christmas parties scheduled. We obviously don’t want to risk infecting our family and friends... there’s always next year. We also had scheduled much of this week off which sucks. Hopefully we’ll be able to catch the tail end of the holidays next week. We’ll have our own party together at home alone I suppose.

I have always said if I catch COVID, it will be at the most in opportune time. That’s just how my life works. I suppose my prediction was right.

Hope everyone (and your families) have a safe, happy, and healthy holiday season!
Wow, sorry to hear that. Sounds like it's just a matter of time for most of us as much as we try to avoid it. At least you're vaccinated and boosted, hopefully your symptoms will be mild and won't last. Thought are with you and your wife.
 

AG_PhamD

Elite Member
Posts
1,049
Reaction score
979
Wishing both of you a speedy recovery and no lingering issues. I know some people say everyone will be infected anyway, so it’s not worth taking precautions, but the fewer the number of episodes, the better. It’s infuriating that this country isn’t spending billions on nasal or pan-coronavirus vaccines. Take care.
Wow, sorry to hear that. Sounds like it's just a matter of time for most of us as much as we try to avoid it. At least you're vaccinated and boosted, hopefully your symptoms will be mild and won't last. Thought are with you and your wife.

Thanks! I appreciate the well wishes.

I’m just surprised it’s taken so long to catch this given we both work in healthcare with direct patient contact. Literally I know of like 1 co-worker now who has not been infected. My side-business is a residential program with ~25 patients (they are free to come and go during the day to jobs, school, etc) went over 2 years without a COVID outbreak which is miraculous as far as I’m concerned. Outbreak meaning having spread between the patients and/or staff.

It’s definitely worth taking precautions, especially if you’re at risk for complications, especially now that numbers seem to be increasing. Unfortunately, I don’t think many of the current stats reflect the actual situation. Massachusetts went from reporting daily to weekly some time ago, which is fine when there’s hardly any cases. It’s been clear numbers over the past month (Thanksgiving time, not surprisingly), but since most people have milder cases now and are using home kits, the cases are not being reported like there were before.

I’m also concerned because China went from a state of home-arrest to far fewer restrictions, plus their insistence to use vaccines with poor effectiveness, will create an explosion of cases that may lead new variants. I think a lot of the science now suggests that lockdowns tend to only delay the inevitable and create a lot of externalities. But if you can have a comprehensive testing program, get people to quarantine who are infected, you can at least slow the rate of spread to something reasonably controllable for the healthcare system. And vaccinations of course at the very least minimize severity of cases.

People are working on pan-coronavirus vaccines, it’s just a lot easier said than done and may not really be possible with the technology we have. We’ve had vaccines/inoculations for centuries but still haven’t managed vaccines to work against all strains of the common cold viruses or the flu. And while mRNA vaccines have revolutionized the development time of vaccines, we can only speed up clinical trials so much. Maybe someday we’ll get to a point where mRNA COVID vaccines can be updated without the requirement for full scale trials.
 

AG_PhamD

Elite Member
Posts
1,049
Reaction score
979
Interestingly, 94% of Americans over the age of 65 had their first round of vaccinations, but only 36% have received an updated booster. I would imagine the numbers are even lower for younger people. Vaccination rates in children, especially younger children, are quite low.

I also think it’s worth noting that the number of COVID cases is completely underrepresented. With at-home rapid antigen testing being widely available, the vast majority of positive cases are not probably not being reported.

The US Military is also no longer mandating the COVID-19 vaccination for service members.

I have always said I think people should get vaccinated. Ultimately however it’s an individual’s decision what they chose to do for themselves and their children, but they must accept the consequences. Generally speaking I don’t agree with mandates as it violates personal autonomy which is an important part of healthcare ethics. That said, I think there are certain jobs where vaccines should be mandated- such as healthcare workers. The military also seems like a group that should be required to take vaccines given the risks of rendering members less effective or ineffective in carrying out their duties. And it’s also a weakness that could be exploited by adversaries.

I suppose the military has to do what it has to do to retain its people, especially considering their significant recruiting and retainment issues. Apparently 96%+ of active-duty soldiers have been vaccinated with the first round of doses. It just seems like a bad precedent to allow refusal of vaccines.
 

Roller

Elite Member
Posts
1,430
Reaction score
2,776
Interestingly, 94% of Americans over the age of 65 had their first round of vaccinations, but only 36% have received an updated booster. I would imagine the numbers are even lower for younger people. Vaccination rates in children, especially younger children, are quite low.

I also think it’s worth noting that the number of COVID cases is completely underrepresented. With at-home rapid antigen testing being widely available, the vast majority of positive cases are not probably not being reported.

The US Military is also no longer mandating the COVID-19 vaccination for service members.

I have always said I think people should get vaccinated. Ultimately however it’s an individual’s decision what they chose to do for themselves and their children, but they must accept the consequences. Generally speaking I don’t agree with mandates as it violates personal autonomy which is an important part of healthcare ethics. That said, I think there are certain jobs where vaccines should be mandated- such as healthcare workers. The military also seems like a group that should be required to take vaccines given the risks of rendering members less effective or ineffective in carrying out their duties. And it’s also a weakness that could be exploited by adversaries.

I suppose the military has to do what it has to do to retain its people, especially considering their significant recruiting and retainment issues. Apparently 96%+ of active-duty soldiers have been vaccinated with the first round of doses. It just seems like a bad precedent to allow refusal of vaccines.
By your reasoning, it's acceptable to violate personal autonomy if a person's job (e.g., in healthcare) puts patients at risk. I agree. But if someone who's not in that category refuses vaccination, they pose a risk to people they come in contact with. Vaccine mandates have a longstanding history of acceptance in the United States under the premise that they are for the greater public good. Here's what the ACLU said in 2021:

Vaccines are a justifiable intrusion on autonomy and bodily integrity. That may sound ominous, because we all have the fundamental right to bodily integrity and to make our own health care decisions. But these rights are not absolute. They do not include the right to inflict harm on others.

The problem this time around is the flood of disinformation regarding vaccine safety and efficacy, fueled by social media. But if someone truly can't be vaccinated or is adamantly opposed for some reason, they should be required to take measures to protect others, such as masking and avoiding contact in public.
 

mac_in_tosh

Site Champ
Posts
678
Reaction score
1,306
The problem this time around is the flood of disinformation regarding vaccine safety and efficacy, fueled by social media.
Drug companies themselves have not always been the best source of information about the efficacy and safety of their products.
 

Herdfan

Resident Redneck
Posts
4,759
Reaction score
3,657
By your reasoning, it's acceptable to violate personal autonomy if a person's job (e.g., in healthcare) puts patients at risk. I agree. But if someone who's not in that category refuses vaccination, they pose a risk to people they come in contact with. Vaccine mandates have a longstanding history of acceptance in the United States under the premise that they are for the greater public good. Here's what the ACLU said in 2021:

How so. That may be true if the current vaccines stopped transmission, but they don't. Nor do they prevent you from getting it either. They certainly lessen the affects, but don't stop it cold.

Whereas the old vaccine mandates for schools, those vaccines actually stopped you from getting mumps, measles, rubella etc.
 

SuperMatt

Site Master
Posts
7,862
Reaction score
15,004
How so. That may be true if the current vaccines stopped transmission, but they don't. Nor do they prevent you from getting it either. They certainly lessen the affects, but don't stop it cold.

Whereas the old vaccine mandates for schools, those vaccines actually stopped you from getting mumps, measles, rubella etc.
Vaccines have never stopped transmission. That’s now how they work. They help animals (such as humans) develop antibodies to fight the infection.

As for polio:

The Salk inactivated polio vaccine, for instance, does not completely stop polio virus from growing in the human gut. But it is extremely effective at preventing the crippling disease because it triggers antibodies that block the virus from infecting the brain and spinal cord. Good vaccines provide effective and durable training for the body’s immune system, so when it actually encounters the disease-causing pathogen, it’s ready to mount an optimum response.

Whether a virus can spread in the face of animal immune response depends on the virus.

It took a long time for measles and the other diseases you mentioned to dissipate to the point where we are at today. That vaccine was not magic. My sister still caught it as a kid in the 80s.

It’s this type of misunderstanding and lack of historical awareness that leads to people refusing vaccines.



 

Eric

Mama's lil stinker
Posts
11,390
Reaction score
21,966
Location
California
Instagram
Main Camera
Sony
Vaccines have never stopped transmission. That’s now how they work. They help animals (such as humans) develop antibodies to fight the infection.

As for polio:



Whether a virus can spread in the face of animal immune response depends on the virus.

It took a long time for measles and the other diseases you mentioned to dissipate to the point where we are at today. That vaccine was not magic. My sister still caught it as a kid in the 80s.

It’s this type of misunderstanding and lack of historical awareness that leads to people refusing vaccines.



Exactly, thank you. In the end it prepares your body to handle it in the event you do get an infection.

How so. That may be true if the current vaccines stopped transmission, but they don't. Nor do they prevent you from getting it either. They certainly lessen the affects, but don't stop it cold.

Whereas the old vaccine mandates for schools, those vaccines actually stopped you from getting mumps, measles, rubella etc.
What you're thinking of is a mask. ;)
 

AG_PhamD

Elite Member
Posts
1,049
Reaction score
979
By your reasoning, it's acceptable to violate personal autonomy if a person's job (e.g., in healthcare) puts patients at risk. I agree. But if someone who's not in that category refuses vaccination, they pose a risk to people they come in contact with. Vaccine mandates have a longstanding history of acceptance in the United States under the premise that they are for the greater public good. Here's what the ACLU said in 2021:

Vaccines are a justifiable intrusion on autonomy and bodily integrity. That may sound ominous, because we all have the fundamental right to bodily integrity and to make our own health care decisions. But these rights are not absolute. They do not include the right to inflict harm on others.

The problem this time around is the flood of disinformation regarding vaccine safety and efficacy, fueled by social media. But if someone truly can't be vaccinated or is adamantly opposed for some reason, they should be required to take measures to protect others, such as masking and avoiding contact in public.

I agree there is a ton of misinformation about vaccines and pharmaceuticals (and non-pharmaceuticals) which has existed forever but indeed the internet and social media have it made it much worse. And a lack of trust in the healthcare system and healthcare authorities- an absolutely huge problem with many causes.

I would argue healthcare providers have a higher level of ethical obligation to be vaccinated so as not to harm their patients (or become harmed to inhibit their ability to help others, particularly in a pandemic). People in the military agree to give up some of their rights/autonomy in joining.

Again, I believe everyone should be vaccinated who can be vaccinated for the recommended diseases. Vaccines are perhaps the greatest healthcare tool ever created and have radically reshaped history. But if the determining factor for healthcare mandates is what’s best for the greater public, there could be a lot of mandatory healthcare interventions (or lack thereof) you may not be happy with. Would you agree with society locking people inside their homes if they have any communicable disease, until they recovery? What about people with AIDS? The extreme end (for the sake of illustration) of this would be if you’re cost to the healthcare system is greater than your value to society, then you are not worth receiving healthcare. That way more resources can be allocated to others who are “higher value” members of society, as that’s in society’s best interest.

Before COVID and actually still even today I have never heard of people suggesting mandating the flu vaccines, despite the flu being far more deadly in children.

Most people I’ve come across (as someone in healthcare) don’t refuse vaccinations just for the sake of it. Most have (in their perception) legitimate concerns about the safety of vaccines and yes, a lot of these stem from misinformation or misinterpretations or a lack of knowledge. It also comes from a lack of trust- which there are many reasons for, many self-inflicted by the healthcare industry and authorities. If healthcare providers actually have the time and ability to communicate with patients, listen to their concerns, earn their trust, etc, it works wonders in convincing them to reconsider. Unfortunately that time and access for intimate communication and often does not exist in modern healthcare.

I just find it very interesting how polarized this country became about vaccines and yet now the rate of pediatric vaccinations (despite being available for quite some time across all age groups) and bivalent boosters is quite low. The anti-vax demographics have interestingly shuffled around before and during COVID, but now it seems we have hesitancy/ambivalence across much of the population, as seen in statistics.

I do think it’s hard to convince many parents to vaccinate their children when the risk to children is so low. And with some evidence that these vaccines are not great at preventing transmission (a far more complex conversation affected by numerous factors), there is even less incentive to do so. And I suspect that’s why we’re seeing less boosters in adults as well.

I think we have a lot of lessons to learn about public health and especially healthcare communication considering how COVID-19 was handled in this country. I never imagined things could become this political over vaccines. I think it’s vital we understand how public health communication can be improved. Sadly, reflection of what worked and what didn’t during the earlier phases of the pandemic often just turns into political bickering. If the House (republicans) do a COVID investigation it will surely have ulterior motives, be political theater not focused on improving things, and all the findings (including ones that may actually merit) will not be accepted by half the country.

There should be a serious, non-partisan investigation run by a body of actual experts with minimal conflicts of interest (which is extremely difficult in some aspects of this case). We were very lucky COVID wasn’t nearly as bad as it could have been with a relatively low case fatality rate (as opposed to something like Ebola).
 

Roller

Elite Member
Posts
1,430
Reaction score
2,776
Several studies demonstrated that the mRNA COVID vaccines reduced the probability of SARS-CoV-2 transmission. The effect was not great, and it has likely waned as variants and sub-variants have proliferated. The main reason for being vaccinated was and remains limiting severe disease that can lead to hospitalization or death. Unfortunately, the current predominant attitude that the pandemic is over has led many people to forego boosters. And other measures that are clearly effective at limiting transmission, such as improved ventilation and masking, have largely fallen by the wayside.
 
Top Bottom
1 2