COVID Stupid

Roller

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I hear many people complain that guidance about COVID-19 changes often and is frequently contradictory. That's true, but it reflects the data on which the CDC and other public health authorities base their recommendations. In essence, there are two buckets:

• Historical data
• Predictions based on modeling

Both are subject to inaccuracy for a large number of reasons — it's inevitable. As well, a given dataset may be interpreted in several ways, so we sometimes end up with profound disagreements between knowledgable experts. With that said, here are a few key points about delta:
  1. Transmissibility appears to be significantly greater than the wild type virus and its other variants. How much higher is still being measured and debated.
  2. At least some of this is due to larger amounts of virus in the nasopharynx, which means people shed more when they exhale, sneeze, or cough.
  3. Delta may cause more severe infection, but the degree is unclear.
  4. Vaccinated individuals who contract delta may transmit the virus even if they're asymptomatic or minimally symptomatic. Again, the magnitude is uncertain, but if this holds up, it's a valid reason to recommend universal masking.
  5. The mRNA vaccines seem to protect against severe illness / hospitalization, but again, how much is unknown. Many of the vaccinated people who contract delta COVID-19 have underlying conditions.
 
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User.45

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I hear many people complain that guidance about COVID-19 changes often and is frequently contradictory. That's true, but it reflects the data on which the CDC and other public health authorities base their recommendations. In essence, there are two buckets:

• Historical data
• Predictions based on modeling

Both are subject to inaccuracy for a large number of reasons — it's inevitable. As well, a given dataset may be interpreted in several ways, so we sometimes end up with profound disagreements between knowledgable experts. With that said, here are a few key points about delta:
  1. Transmissibility appears to be significantly greater than the wild type virus and its other variants. How much higher is still being measured and debated.
  2. At least some of this is due to larger amounts of virus in the nasopharynx, which means people shed more when they exhale, sneeze, or cough.
  3. Delta may cause more severe infection, but the degree is unclear.
  4. Vaccinated individuals who contract delta may transmit the virus even if they're asymptomatic or minimally symptomatic. Again, the magnitude is uncertain, but if this holds up, it's a valid reason to recommend universal masking.
  5. The mRNA vaccines seem to protect against severe illness / hospitalization, but again, how much is unknown. Many of the vaccinated people who contract delta COVID-19 have underlying conditions.
They just reinstated universal masking in my hospital's non-patient care areas*. Our mask "holiday" lasted about 3 weeks

*meaning we didn't require a mask in areas away from visitors, like in offices. Of course vaccination is mandatory institution-wise, because we can't afford to tolerate stupid.
 

Huntn

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No, not at all. I welcome other view points.


What I don't welcome is someone making blanket statements about "we know vaccines are effective, we're good to go", ignoring that the COVID19 vaccines available to the vast, vast majority of humanity are no where near as effective, nor as well studied, as those that a few shit head Americans are shitting in their own beds about.


What I don't welcome is someone making claims to suggest that anyone who isn't vaccinated at this point, is in that situation by choice, and they should instead choose to "leave the heard".


You want to talk about fucking assumptions, try reading your own posts through the eyes of anyone outside the US, UK or EU.



You're literally using the most expansive technology in the history of mankind for information sharing, and you want to talk about "the sources I have available".

I'm not looking for a fight, I was hoping that somewhere along the way you'd realise the world outside America exists, and it's not all sunshine and lollipops.

Americans, and to a lesser extent brits and europeans, have a choice of multiple, high efficacy vaccines, with a broad body of trial data, overseen by organisations you can trust. I've repeatedly said that someone in that environment who continues to refuse a vaccine is a fucking idiot.


But you're somehow not able to see or acknowledge the reality affecting much of the rest of the world: A lot of the rest of us are stuck between a really shitty vaccine that was being administered before any trials had even started, with the bonus that we have zero actual clue now about the side effects due to the source of said vaccine, and that's on top of incompetent and corrupt government responses in general to the pandemic.

Oh sorry, technically I guess I do have an 'option' for a more trustworthy/effective vaccine with less risks: at this stage I could be waiting as long as NEXT MARCH before I'm able to get my first shot of Moderna.


Am I looking for a fight? No, not at all. I'm looking for just the slightest little acknowledgement for fucking once that the world does not in fact revolve around America. Ignorance of the outside world is not an excuse to make blanket statements about people's intent.


I'm done with this thread. You can discuss how doctors should be punishing stupid people on your own.

I'm not looking for a fight, I was hoping that somewhere along the way you'd realise the world outside America exists, and it's not all sunshine and lollipops.

Lol, more assumptions and BS, your made up bullshit, not going to entertain you with engagement. Get back to me when you want a sincere discussion.
 

Pumbaa

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I'm not looking for a fight, I was hoping that somewhere along the way you'd realise the world outside America exists, and it's not all sunshine and lollipops.

Lol, more assumptions and BS, your made up bullshit, not going to entertain you with engagement. Get back to me when you want a sincere discussion.
Somehow I don’t think Deleted Member 199 will get back to you. Call it a hunch.
 

Hrafn

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Word has it he bailed. I was thinking a better title than “guest” would be appropriate. :)
Oh dear. Yes, the implosion was this morning, knowing that, my reply seems oddly funny. Otherwise, not so much.
 

Runs For Fun

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Huntn

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Texas is stupid

Facebook is a dumpster fire worse than Fox News
…right up to State elected officials of who have the stupid quotient needed for approval from the Koolaid drinkers. :(
 
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User.45

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I thought they thought that locals know their local needs better?! Can someone resolve this question in a way that is different than: local government is sacred, until it's run by Democrats, then it isn't. It's also well-described that local governments' hands-on approach works better for pubic health efforts.
 

JayMysteri0

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Like a finger on the beating for now pulse of parts of our society
223015949_3295484360714398_5799857890118635064_n.jpg
 

Eric

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Texas is stupid

Facebook is a dumpster fire worse than Fox News
I wonder if that translates to business not being able to mandate it, right now there's a groundswell of them requiring masks at the local level. I couldn't imaging being an owner and being told I couldn't mandate them in my own store.
 

SuperMatt

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Texas is stupid

Facebook is a dumpster fire worse than Fox News
This doesn’t surprise me in the slightest. And yet the mouth-breathers in the GOP still complain they are being censored by FB? They are completely unhinged from reality.
 

Huntn

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I thought they thought that locals know their local needs better?! Can someone resolve this question in a way that is different than: local government is sacred, until it's run by Democrats, then it isn't. It's also well-described that local governments' hands-on approach works better for pubic health efforts.
Republicans are two faced hypocrites always seeking what they think benefits their hold on power and pleasing their stupid, selfish, have difficulty handling the truth base. Not helping, the norm for a lot of this base is being Trump/Faux News Koolaid drinkers who thrive on self serving fantasies.
 

Roller

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During much of 2020, we had few tools to treat COVID-19. The sickest patients went on ventilatory support and either lived or died. Over time, we learned the value of dexamethasone and other therapeutic intervention, but we had no proven measures to prevent infection other than physically limiting transmission. In retrospect, some of them, such as repeatedly wiping down surfaces at home and cleaning groceries before putting them away, were probably excessive. We knew vaccines were under development, but their timeline and efficacy were unknown.

What galls most HCWs now is that we have vaccines that can save lives, reduce community spread, and limit viral replication and mutation. They're widely available at no cost throughout the United States, but in some places a large percentage of the population refuses them because they've been fed lies by people who care only about their own profit and / or political power. That doesn't mean there aren't people with legitimate hesitancy that can be overcome — I've convinced a few people to get vaccinated by listening to addressing their concerns. I also think governments should require paid time off for those who suffer post-vaccination side effects like fever.

I've long thought that case numbers aren't as effective as hospitalization statistics to convince folks that the current crisis is real. That's already happening in some hard-hit areas as hospitals limit elective procedures and visits because of reduced capacity. But we shouldn't have to do that.

I was heartened to read that businesses are taking action regarding masking (which is essential to protect others) and vaccination. I also think healthcare facilities should require universal masking, as well as vaccination.
 
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