COVID Stupid

hulugu

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Abbott is losing it. Not only is his order moot with regard to federal employees or facilities in Texas (Biden's order overrides it), but I don't see businesses, counties and municipalities standing for this. This is one cigar that's gonna blow up in Abbott's face.

They keep insisting on fighting this culture war because they think it will undermine Biden, and win them some votes. Never mind that they're leading lambs to slaughter.

It's clear that Abbot doesn't care about his constituents, rather he'd rather make political hay at their expense. He's a terrible leader and always has been, but I suspect that he'll do well in Texas because that state's politics are ridiculous.
 

JayMysteri0

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Herdfan

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And what other school of thought is there on this subject? People who work around and care for sick people on a daily basis are more likely to contract a virus, spreading it other sick people under their care, and thus have a more compelling reason to be vaccinated than your average person. But...

...what? I'm trying to see an exception here that makes sense. Maybe you could enlighten me on the subject.

The bubble comment was not about vaccines, but about 58% of people believing it came from a lab.

I am going to say this as loudly and succinctly as possible:

I do believe in vaccines. I wish more people were vaccinated. Where I draw the line is the government mandating them. Businesses can do what they want.
 

SuperMatt

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The bubble comment was not about vaccines, but about 58% of people believing it came from a lab.

I am going to say this as loudly and succinctly as possible:

I do believe in vaccines. I wish more people were vaccinated. Where I draw the line is the government mandating them. Businesses can do what they want.
You are full of baloney. If you “believe” in vaccines, then you should know we ALL need them to protect society. That’s why vaccines for many diseases are MANDATORY when kids start school. Did you refuse to send your daughter to school when they required them? Did you write in bold red letters to your school board? Nope, it’s just THIS vaccine, because the total fucking moron Donald Trump started blathering about “Freedom” when it comes to THIS vaccine... and he only did so once he lost the election. Before that, he had no problem with the vaccine, and his minions would have been first in line if he mandated it. You don’t even know what freedom is. There are millions more like you, and America is falling into the shitter because of it.

People who know NOTHING about medicine are spouting off as if they do. I recommend watching this movie for the logical conclusion of ignoring the experts and attacking “intellectuals" because of hurt feelings and/or nonsensical notions of “freedom."


PS - Anybody’s “belief” in the vaccines doesn’t matter. The FACT is that they work. The FACT on vaccines is that you need as many people as possible to get them. So if you “believe” in the REALITY of vaccines, then you also MUST believe that a mandate is necessary if enough people aren’t voluntarily getting it.
 
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Herdfan

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Can anyone here explain the Mayo Clinic's vaccine mandate?

It seems they have one, but not really.

  1. The Rochester, Minn.-based health system said July 26 that all staff must be fully vaccinated by Sept. 17.

  2. Those who do not meet the deadline will be able to keep their jobs. However, they will be required to complete education modules, wear face masks and maintain social distancing while on campus.
  3. The mandate will affect the health system's staff regardless of location.

  4. "Getting vaccinated for COVID-19 is the single most important thing all of us can do to protect our patients, visitors, colleagues and communities," Gianrico Farrugia, MD, president and CEO of Mayo Clinic, said in a statement.

So as long as you take some classes, wear a mask (which most probably do anyway) and stay away from others, you won't be required to be vaccinated. How is that a mandate?

Isn't Mayo one of the top medical facilities in the country? And yet they allow a loophole you can drive a dump truck though.
 

Renzatic

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I do believe in vaccines. I wish more people were vaccinated. Where I draw the line is the government mandating them. Businesses can do what they want.

State governments have been mandating vaccines for well over a century now. The only real contentious issue facing us these days is Biden leveraging OSHA to mandate them at the federal level, though that's more a symbolic gesture, given that he'd have a hard time enforcing it if there's any real pushback against it.
 

P_X

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i have a proposal. We as the TalkedAbout Community shouls ignore posts that contain specific statements without sources.

When it comes to @Herdfan the first necessary thing to do is check whether his question is based on a lie or not. Then we can discuss verified claims. Source your mayo policy or go away.
 

Herdfan

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Source your mayo policy or go away.

Sourced.

All Mayo Clinic staff, regardless of work location, are expected to be fully vaccinated or participate in a declination process. Staff who decline to be vaccinated for COVID-19 must complete education modules and will be required to wear masks and socially distance when on campus.

I am going to assume that the mayoclinic.org is valid enough. There is also a summary at Becker's Hospital Review. Do I need to double source?


So now that you have lost that reason not to answer, what say you?


So while I was sourcing this for you, I decided to check on the Cleveland Clinic. And I found this tidbit that YOU claim is a right-wing/Foxnews talking point:

Clinic CEO Tom Mihaljevic said there are concerns about large numbers of staff members quitting.


I guess the CEO regurgitates RW talking points. Who knew?
 

Runs For Fun

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Nope, it’s just THIS vaccine, because the total fucking moron Donald Trump started blathering about “Freedom” when it comes to THIS vaccine... and he only did so once he lost the election. Before that, he had no problem with the vaccine, and his minions would have been first in line if he mandated it.
This is so accurate it hurts. 👏
 

SuperMatt

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Can anyone here explain the Mayo Clinic's vaccine mandate?

It seems they have one, but not really.



So as long as you take some classes, wear a mask (which most probably do anyway) and stay away from others, you won't be required to be vaccinated. How is that a mandate?

Isn't Mayo one of the top medical facilities in the country? And yet they allow a loophole you can drive a dump truck though.
As with the military, there are different ways of enforcing a vaccine mandate; discharging the military member is the last resort. It seems like they’re starting with a “punishment” of making you go to classes and get tested and wear masks in areas where others might not need to wear them. They could add harsher penalties up to and including termination, but they started with this model instead.

Same thing with driving violations. Speeding is prohibited, but they don’t start with taking away your license and putting you in jail. They initially fine you and make you go to traffic school to remove points from your license if you get more tickets. I’d hardly call this kind of progressive punishment a “loophole."

The July mandate has been quite effective, it seems. 98% of doctors and 87% of staff overall are vaccinated 3 weeks after the initial deadline.


Also, the federal mandate is different than the one Mayo instituted in July might require termination of the employee. Mayo isn’t talking about how that will be implemented yet.
 
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Herdfan

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The July mandate has been quite effective, it seems. 98% of doctors and 87% of staff overall are vaccinated 3 weeks after the initial deadline.

I don't really trust those numbers. After all, if you have 50% of a company vaccinated and then fire 100% of the unvaccinated, you can then claim 100%. But it won't be because the rest of the people complied.

It is a tactic businesses use to make their books look better called Denominator Management.


i have a proposal. We as the TalkedAbout Community shouls ignore posts that contain specific statements without sources.

When it comes to @Herdfan the first necessary thing to do is check whether his question is based on a lie or not. Then we can discuss verified claims. Source your mayo policy or go away.

I had another thought about this post. You typed around 50 words when a Google search using 4 words (Mayo Clinic Vaccine Mandate) would have given you the answer. My link was the top hit, so you don't even have to go though multiple hits.

I guess you were hoping I didn't have a source or that I would link a Fox or OAN or NewsMax etc source so you could spend time talking about that instead of something that goes against what you want to believe. Sorry to have messed that up for you.
 

SuperMatt

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I don't really trust those numbers. After all, if you have 50% of a company vaccinated and then fire 100% of the unvaccinated, you can then claim 100%. But it won't be because the rest of the people complied.

It is a tactic businesses use to make their books look better called Denominator Management.
So are they firing people or not? I thought the whole point of your post was that they are NOT firing people...?
 

Renzatic

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I don't really trust those numbers. After all, if you have 50% of a company vaccinated and then fire 100% of the unvaccinated, you can then claim 100%. But it won't be because the rest of the people complied.

It is a tactic businesses use to make their books look better called Denominator Management.

It's a possibility, but do you have any compelling reason to assume that's the case here?
 

Herdfan

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On a different note, the Brooklyn Nets have issued a statement that Kyrie Irving will not be allowed to participate in games or practices until he is vaccinated. They won't allow him to be a part-time player.

I can't imagine they came to this position without Harden and Durant being onboard. I know they don't have to pay him for games he misses at home or in SF or LA, but not sure if they have to pay him for other away games since he is able and willing to play.

So I am going with Stupid since he will be giving up more than half his $39M salary.
 

SuperMatt

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Conflation of two different things. And I think you know it.
No, it absolutely isn’t. I’m quoting the numbers from the Mayo Clinic, which you said isn’t firing anybody. So these numbers are the people that chose vaccine either because they know it works or to avoid having to attend “vaccine class.” This is literally apples to apples.
 

Herdfan

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No, it absolutely isn’t. I’m quoting the numbers from the Mayo Clinic, which you said isn’t firing anybody. So these numbers are the people that chose vaccine either because they know it works or to avoid having to attend “vaccine class.” This is literally apples to apples.

Yep, my bad. The Mayo link didn't populate the first time so I didn't make the connection.
 
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