Dave Chappelle stirring up controversy...again

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A Netflix employee has quit over the airing of Dave Chappelle's latest show, The Closer, which features him making controversial comments about trans people, a topic he has addressed before.

What do you make of comedians pivoting to whining about cancel culture rather than actually telling jokes? As the article points out, there is certainly a market for it. Do you think the left started a "war on comedy" so this is their own fault? Do you think much of this is just a publicity stunt and there's no real threat of "cancellation" for these comedians?

Do you care whether comedy "punches down" or not?
 
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Eric

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A Netflix employee has quit over the airing of Dave Chappelle's latest show, The Closer, which features him making controversial comments about trans people, a topic he has addressed before.

What do you make of comedians pivoting to whining about cancel culture rather than actually telling jokes? As the article points out, there is certainly a market for it. Do you think the left started a "war on comedy" so this is their own fault? Do you think much of this is just a publicity stunt and there's no real threat of "cancellation" for these comedians?

Do you care whether comedy "punches down" or not?
I think the culture has shifted, yes those on the left are the most vocal but it's a also societal change that comedians must deal with. For a lot of them, offensive humor is their bread and butter and over the last decade it's become essentially taboo.

Being politically correct is just not funny but cheap gay or racist jokes are no longer acceptable either so I think they need to work on finding some middle ground.
 

JayMysteri0

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A Netflix employee has quit over the airing of Dave Chappelle's latest show, The Closer, which features him making controversial comments about trans people, a topic he has addressed before.

What do you make of comedians pivoting to whining about cancel culture rather than actually telling jokes? As the article points out, there is certainly a market for it. Do you think the left started a "war on comedy" so this is their own fault? Do you think much of this is just a publicity stunt and there's no real threat of "cancellation" for these comedians?

Do you care whether comedy "punches down" or not?
Everyone cares if comedy punches down. Especially if they are the target of that punching down.

This of course isn't the first time we've done this dance with Chapelle. I think the biggest disappointment lies in the respect he's earned for his comedy, so that when he is seen as 'punching down' it's a disappointment. When you are the target of it, it's even more disappointing, maybe even feeling like a betrayal.

The complaint is that comedians complain about cancel culture or are accused as punching down, it's often because it's seen going in directions that weren't particularly necessary. Really? TERF? When Chapelle goes there it just seems unnecessary. All it does is give less creative comedians someone to hide behind as they cry for getting called out on their shit or weighing in when they should sit it out.


"Comedy slaves"? Take a f'n nap.

What Netflix is running into is an attempt to have it both ways. Support Chappelle & support those aggrieved, only to suspend from those aggrieved, only to lift that suspension when they got called out.

It's all an orchestrated shit show that gets eyeballs.
 

Eric

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Everyone cares if comedy punches down. Especially if they are the target of that punching down.

This of course isn't the first time we've done this dance with Chapelle. I think the biggest disappointment lies in the respect he's earned for his comedy, so that when he is seen as 'punching down' it's a disappointment. When you are the target of it, it's even more disappointing, maybe even feeling like a betrayal.

The complaint is that comedians complain about cancel culture or are accused as punching down, it's often because it's seen going in directions that weren't particularly necessary. Really? TERF? When Chapelle goes there it just seems unnecessary. All it does is give less creative comedians someone to hide behind as they cry for getting called out on their shit or weighing in when they should sit it out.



"Comedy slaves"? Take a f'n nap.

What Netflix is running into is an attempt to have it both ways. Support Chappelle & support those aggrieved, only to suspend from those aggrieved, only to lift that suspension when they got called out.

It's all an orchestrated shit show that gets eyeballs.
Agreed about TERF but would just ask if this is inconsistent with his normal routines, yes to punch down, but also not surprising. He's always bucked traditions and to me that's one of his biggest appeals, when CC said he needed more white people in his sketches (yes, really WTF was that about, not enough white people on 99% of every other TV show?) and he answered with the Real World sketch, I don't know that we've ever seen a more brilliant way to stick it to the man.

I say we let Dave be Dave, I'm tired of watching reruns from a decade ago to find things that were funny.
 

JayMysteri0

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Agreed about TERF but would just ask if this is inconsistent with his normal routines, yes to punch down, but also not surprising. He's always bucked traditions and to me that's one of his biggest appeals, when CC said he needed more white people in his sketches (yes, really WTF was that about, not enough white people on 99% of every other TV show?) and he answered with the Real World sketch, I don't know that we've ever seen a more brilliant way to stick it to the man.

I say we let Dave be Dave, I'm tired of watching reruns from a decade ago to find things that were funny.
Dave CAN be Dave.

Also EVERYONE else can be EVERYONE else, and if they take issue they get to call him or anyone else out.

I'm a big fan of Chappelle, but I don't know the man. I do think I know he likes to push boundaries because he CAN. He can because of the respect he earned. The problem of course is when you trade on that respect too much.

I don't think every "bully" intends to be a bully, they are someone who knows that they can get away with something and those affected have less voice than they do. So that person isn't considered a "bully", doesn't imagine they are punching down, or have to consider the affects their actions affect others.

There's a point where when one does any creative efforts, you make a decision how far you want to go, and what direction. For Chapelle he may not see A 'too far', for the sake of comedy. It's a nice place to be, but it isn't realistic. Especially if your platform is as big as his is.

The fallout continues
 
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Eric

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Dave CAN be Dave.

Also EVERYONE else can be EVERYONE else, and if they take issue they get to call him or anyone else out.

I'm a big fan of Chappelle, but I don't know the man. I do think I know he likes to push boundaries because he CAN. He can because of the respect he earned. The problem of course is when you trade on that respect too much.

I don't think every "bully" intends to be a bully, they are someone who knows that they can get away with something and those affected have less voice than they do. So that person isn't considered a "bully", doesn't imagine they are punching down, or have to consider the affects their actions affect others.

There's a point where when one does any creative efforts, you make a decision how far you want to go, and what direction. For Chapelle he may not see A 'too far', for the sake of comedy. It's a nice place to be, but it isn't realistic. Especially if your platform is as big as his is.

The fallout continues
They will always offend someone. To me it's a lot like Trump in that everything he says is offensive to me so I simply refuse to watch. Will be interesting to see how this plays out in the bigger picture.
 

JayMysteri0

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They will always offend someone. To me it's a lot like Trump in that everything he says is offensive to me so I simply refuse to watch. Will be interesting to see how this plays out in the bigger picture.
Yes, some comedians will ALWAYS offend.

The question is, did they SEEK to offend?

That's where the issue begins. Like looking for targets that can't respond in kind, ...until AFTER a special is shown, which generates attention & eyeballs.

Sometimes it's NOT a good look, and has far reaching results that weren't considered.

 

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I don't it's just comedy. I actually think DS aims to disparage and offend. He's lost his touch and isn't funny. This hate act is getting stale -- if one looks at his act from years ago, he was already broaching offensive territory. With added fame and a buttload of money, he's punching down more and more.
 

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I honestly have never watched this guys stand up comedy so I can’t comment about anything he’s done past or present.
 

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I‘m a Chapelle fan, and I haven’t watched this special yet but I will. One of my favorite comedians is Anthony Jeselnik, and a couple of observations I’ve heard from him are relevant.

On his podcast this week, Jeselnik said DC is one of the best comedians ever, and he’d watched the special, but in a nutshell he wished DC would just let the topic fuckin go (I know DC said he would from this point on), and it just wasn’t worth getting into it again, as it had diminishing comedic returns.

Re: Cancel culture for comedians. Last year Showtime had a limited series called The Comedy Store, about the club in West Hollywood. In the last episode, a group of comedians sat together for an interview and the topic was largely focused on the threat of comedians being cancelled. This was a muderers’ row of successful comedians, all of whom Jeselnik is acquainted with. On his podcast at the time, he said how ridiculous it looked that a group of multi-millionaires complained about the existential threat of being cancelled, and that he would have laughed in their faces had he been in the room.

I hope DC keeps his promise of letting it go. Him and JK Rowling getting into it with that community is baffling to me.
 

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DC has FU money. He doesn't care and I think backlash pushes him in the other direction to do MORE of it.
 

Eric

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I‘m a Chapelle fan, and I haven’t watched this special yet but I will. One of my favorite comedians is Anthony Jeselnik, and a couple of observations I’ve heard from him are relevant.

On his podcast this week, Jeselnik said DC is one of the best comedians ever, and he’d watched the special, but in a nutshell he wished DC would just let the topic fuckin go (I know DC said he would from this point on), and it just wasn’t worth getting into it again, as it had diminishing comedic returns.

Re: Cancel culture for comedians. Last year Showtime had a limited series called The Comedy Store, about the club in West Hollywood. In the last episode, a group of comedians sat together for an interview and the topic was largely focused on the threat of comedians being cancelled. This was a muderers’ row of successful comedians, all of whom Jeselnik is acquainted with. On his podcast at the time, he said how ridiculous it looked that a group of multi-millionaires complained about the existential threat of being cancelled, and that he would have laughed in their faces had he been in the room.

I hope DC keeps his promise of letting it go. Him and JK Rowling getting into it with that community is baffling to me.
Side note, I think Anthony Jeselnik is one of the sharpest and smartest comics I've ever heard. His delivery is calculated and he keeps you on your toes.

But yeah, I haven't seen this special either and if DC is literally on an anti-trans kick in the same way JK Rowling is (is it really that bad?) then it's more than a passing joke and turns into hate speech.
 

Edd

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Side note, I think Anthony Jeselnik is one of the sharpest and smartest comics I've ever heard. His delivery is calculated and he keeps you on your toes.

But yeah, I haven't seen this special either and if DC is literally on an anti-trans kick in the same way JK Rowling is (is it really that bad?) then it's more than a passing joke and turns into hate speech.
Yes, I recommend AJ’s podcast.

My understanding is that DC mentions Rowling in this special, but no idea how aligned their views are. I’ve gotta watch it this weekend.
 

JayMysteri0

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Side note, I think Anthony Jeselnik is one of the sharpest and smartest comics I've ever heard. His delivery is calculated and he keeps you on your toes.

But yeah, I haven't seen this special either and if DC is literally on an anti-trans kick in the same way JK Rowling is (is it really that bad?) then it's more than a passing joke and turns into hate speech.
Yes, it's that bad.

But with Chappelle platforming a position of gender essentialism onstage, and declaring that he’s “team TERF” — thereby aligning himself with trans-exclusionary radical feminists who argue that trans women aren’t women — many Netflix viewers and employees disagree. Netflix’s approach to the whole situation has triggered employee resignations, backlash, and now, a planned walkout of the company’s trans employee resource group.

As I said earlier, in whatever creative endeavor you decide on, early on you make a decision. Is that creative effort for YOU, or for commercial profit. When you're a nobody, the choice to choose you is easy, but at the same time you want money & to be noticed so may consider what others thing. The enviable position that Dave Chappelle has been in for so long is that what is for HIM, also works commercially for him. Eventually though that will butt up against the views of others. Some of the same people that championed his earlier Netflix specials, previously thought of him as a racist from his Comedy Central series. They now embrace him & say "oh he makes fun of everyone grow a thick skin". Like I said earlier also, when you're the target of such humor, it isn't so funny.

When the target is a community already marginalized, it isn't funny, it's mean, it's punching down. All because one imagines there won't be any real blowback. Only this time, that isn't the case.

Some comedians whine about "cancel culture", long before that in comics we had "comicsgate", a spinoff of "gamersgate". Basically a group of White ( to be fair it wasn't exclusively White, but there are so few PoC no one gives a shit about their shit ) males who get butt hurt about women having a say in an industry that is resistant to diversity and hates being asked to let others play in the same sandbox. When those artists & writers got outed, they got bounced. Why? If you ask them, any number of valiant long suffering reasons that make them the poor victims for saying what others find distasteful. The truth, very large corporations like making money from anyone who will give it to them. Having known assholes who use their platform & popularity to espouse views demeaning a portion of the customer base, is not conducive to "making money from anyone who will give it to them". It isn't just the affected communities that turn on the company, but those who empathize & sympathize. Also no one like the taint of "guilt by association".

What's good for Chappelle, isn't necessarily good for Netflix as of late. But that's NOT a position that Dave has EVER had to work from. That's been a wonderful rarified privilege few will ever experience. Either you accept & like his humor, or be on your way. Unfortunately Dave is so big, that if others go "be on their way", that's something Netflix does NOT want. Especially if it attracts a particular toxic crowd, that you may find yourself associated with. Chappelle will be fine. Netflix has to worry about themselves.

If anything, all of this will just be the source for his next stand up. It's a constant circle.

The idea that a group of comedians as related, are sitting around whining about "cancel culture", is one of the best examples of entitlement seen. Yes you can say what you want in your routines, but remember you are selling yourself & your routine. If people don't want to buy you & your routine because of what you say about a group or topic, that's on you. No one has to buy your shit. YOU WANT them to buy YOUR shit, they are not obligated to take you & your shit the way YOU want. That's the risk of any creative endeavor, no one HAS to like or want your product.

Sure such a thing can be chilling, but it was happening long before "cancel culture" got coined. It was just referred to by those who whine about "cancel culture" now, as the right of a consumer to express their views with their wallets.

It still is.
 
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TBL

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Another article pointed out the way that Chappelle is resentful of the LGBT community for overcoming its oppression in record time, whereas black people still haven't. So he has this "black vs. LGBT" contest in his mind and that fuels some of what he chooses to talk about.
 

ronntaylor

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Another article pointed out the way that Chappelle is resentful of the LGBT community for overcoming its oppression in record time, whereas black people still haven't. So he has this "black vs. LGBT" contest in his mind and that fuels some of what he chooses to talk about.
He is extremely ignorant. His position overlooks that Black people can be LGBT. Trans murder victims are disproportionally Black (and Latinx) and hate speech and legislation directed toward them is one reason. I suggest he learn about Bayard Rustin, Marsha P. Johnson, James Baldwin and a host of so many other Black LGBT icons.
 

Eric

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Another article pointed out the way that Chappelle is resentful of the LGBT community for overcoming its oppression in record time, whereas black people still haven't. So he has this "black vs. LGBT" contest in his mind and that fuels some of what he chooses to talk about.
Unfortunately, there is a lot of resentment and anger towards LGBT in the black community. I know it's a taboo subject but the reality is we've seen a lot of it over the years. I'll personally never understand why anyone's sexual orientation is so offensive to people, how, exactly does this impact your life in any way? Let people be who they are and STFU.
 

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Look, I get that to some, it might seem like the biggest problems the LGBT community has are pronouns and wedding cakes, while black people are still being murdered in the streets by cops. But that ignores the fact that there are black LGBT people with their own sets of issues, it ignores the many other problems LGBT people face, it ignores the real problem of homophobia in the black community, etc. Playing "Oppression Olympics" isn't a solution. Yes, I do think there are things about the trans community that we aren't talking about (transitioning young children is a problem), but constantly going after a small, marginalized group isn't "brave". But it stirs up the controversy and it gets the views and the likes, so it's a good business model.
 

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Netflix has NOT handled this well.

Comedian Hannah Gadsby went after Netflix, the co-CEO of Netflix Ted Sarandos, and Dave Chappelle in a recent statement after Sarandos name-dropped her in the streaming service’s latest scandal.

On Thursday, Gadsby posted a statement on Instagram in response to Sarandos’ remarks about how “inclusive” Netflix has been.

“Hey Ted Sarandos! Just a quick note to let you know that I would prefer if you didn’t drag my name into your mess. Now I have to deal with even more of the hate and anger that Dave Chappelle’s fans like to unleash on me every time Dave gets 20 million dollars to process his emotionally stunted partial world view,” she wrote.

Sarandos has been all over the news cycle this week as he continues to defend Chappelle’s latest stand-up special, The Closer, which mocked people in the trans community. The Netflix executive apparently sent a memo to his staff to defend Chappelle’s statements, decrying that such remarks don’t “directly translate to real-world harm” and therefore would not be removed. That memo also emphasized that Netflix was “working hard to ensure marginalized communities aren’t defined by a single story.”
“So we have Sex Education, Orange Is the New Black, Control Z, Hannah Gadsby and Dave Chappelle all on Netflix. Key to this is increasing diversity on the content team itself,” he listed as examples.

Gadsby, clocking the mention of herself in connection with her blockbuster 2018 Netflix special Nanette, didn’t hesitate to express her disgust with being brought into the current chaos and went on to say that Netflix “didn’t pay me nearly enough to deal with the real world consequences of the hate speech dog whistling you refuse to acknowledge, Ted.”

“Fuck you and your amoral algorithm cult…. I do shits with more back bone than you,” she wrote, noting that remark was a “joke” and that she didn’t cross any lines because Sarandos already told the world “there isn’t one.”

Gadsby’s remarks come amid reports that trans employees and allies at Netflix are planning to participate in a virtual walkout on Wednesday, Oct. 20. A leader of the trans ERG wrote to staff in an internal organizing message that “Netflix has continually failed to show deep care in our mission to Entertain the World by repeatedly releasing content that harms the Trans community and continually failing to create content that represents and uplifts Trans content. We can and must do better!” as per The Verge.
 
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