Degrees of punishment for capitol insurrectionists

Chew Toy McCoy

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First off, I don't think anybody who is identified inside the building should be able to just walk away, but I don't think they all should go to prison either. I'm sure there were some protesters who got caught up in the moment and weren't trying to overthrow the government. At minimum, from the worst to the caught up in the moment tourists, I think they all need to be deprogrammed and exposed to the truth. I have no clue about the denazifiction program, but I think there should also be an element of acknowledging their grievances (outside racism) and not just "You're a piece of shit on the wrong side of history." There are serious governmental and economic problems in this country and that should be acknowledged.
 

SuperMatt

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First off, I don't think anybody who is identified inside the building should be able to just walk away, but I don't think they all should go to prison either. I'm sure there were some protesters who got caught up in the moment and weren't trying to overthrow the government. At minimum, from the worst to the caught up in the moment tourists, I think they all need to be deprogrammed and exposed to the truth. I have no clue about the denazifiction program, but I think there should also be an element of acknowledging their grievances (outside racism) and not just "You're a piece of shit on the wrong side of history." There are serious governmental and economic problems in this country and that should be acknowledged.
I disagree. If anybody in that mob claims they didn’t know breaking into the Capitol was illegal, they are either lying or so ignorant that it is criminal.

If they are able to just walk away from this without serious consequences, they could do it again. Throw the book at all of them. They need to learn a lesson.
 

lizkat

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Pro Trump insurrectionists who went into the Capitol without an invitation were there in support of a President who has spent the past year politicizing a public health crisis --indeed, undermining the. data and guidelines from his own agencies-- instead of providing sensible health-related education and leadership to states and the general population on how to deal with it to our overall benefit.

So about the "mere followers" who ended up in the Capitol on January 6th, are we saying ignorance is an even bigger excuse to go lightly on them because their lives and livelihood may have been financially imperiled already (or because of covid)?

People have a right to assemble peacefully to protest regarding rederess of real or perceived grievances. So just because you went to an organized protest that day and were on the grounds, your mere presence certainly doesn't make you a criminal.

If you had something to do with planning the incursionm, that's different. There were likely some people out there on the grounds who meant to join the scrum at the doors and get in there, with or without meaning harm to officials and staffers in there, but who didn't make it that far before people started being thrown back out of the place. But unless such missed-the-boat people are named and there's proof of their having helped plan the incursion, I don't see how they can be charged with anything so long as they were not violent while remaining outside the buildings. They might need schooling but that can't be mandated: the protest itself was organized and had acquired permits.

But then there is the "swept up in the moment" argument for going light on some of those who ended up inside the Capitol. Even though one can see what appears to be a sense of bewilderment, unease or disappointment on some faces in some of the photos and videos, I dunno about that argument.

I mean if you walk in behind people who have broken windows to get there, if you approached an entrance and took in scenes of police trying to prevent entry as others pressed forward, what the hell were you thinking if you joined in that movement?

"Oh I'll just see what it's like in there, since some other people already broke in..." ??!​

Maybe there's no such charge as "being too spineless to resist peer pressure to commit a crime". But seems to me that there should be something a little north of littering or trespassing.
 
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Chew Toy McCoy

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I disagree. If anybody in that mob claims they didn’t know breaking into the Capitol was illegal, they are either lying or so ignorant that it is criminal.

If they are able to just walk away from this without serious consequences, they could do it again. Throw the book at all of them. They need to learn a lesson.

For a while I've approached this with "Could this happen under a Bernie supporter Presidency?" On one level it's a moot point because he wouldn't have said the vote was fraudulent and taken it to this level, but from the angle his views are also highly persecuted by the establishment with a lot of supporters who believe his views are spot on, who knows?

Also I don't know how much alcohol was in circulation.

So having said that, if I was a young(er than I am) Bernie supporter at a similar rally with some alcohol in my system a little late to the capitol and it appeared it was just a free for all entrance, I can't say with confidence that I wouldn't have been in there taking pictures and shooting videos to share with my friends on this forum.
 

SuperMatt

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Pro Trump insurrectionists who went into the Capitol without an invitation were there in support of a President who has spent the past year politicizing a public health crisis --indeed, undermining the. data and guidelines from his own agencies-- instead of providing sensible health-related education and leadership to states and the general population on how to deal with it to our overall benefit.

So about the "mere followers" who ended up in the Capitol on January 6th, are we saying ignorance is an even bigger excuse to go lightly on them because their lives and livelihood may have been financially imperiled already (or because of covid)?

People have a right to assemble peacefully to protest regarding rederess of real or perceived grievances. So just because you went to an organized protest that day and were on the grounds, your mere presence certainly doesn't make you a criminal.

If you had something to do with planning the incursionm, that's different. There were likely some people out there on the grounds who meant to join the scrum at the doors and get in there, with or without meaning harm to officials and staffers in there, but who didn't make it that far before people started being thrown back out of the place. But unless such missed-the-boat people are named and there's proof of their having helped plan the incursion, I don't see how they can be charged with anything so long as they were not violent while remaining outside the buildings. They might need schooling but that can't be mandated: the protest itself was organized and had acquired permits.

But then there is the "swept up in the moment" argument for going light on some of those who ended up inside the Capitol. Even though one can see what appears to be a sense of bewilderment, unease or disappointment on some faces in some of the photos and videos, I dunno about that argument.

I mean if you walk in behind people who have broken windows to get there, if you approached an entrance and took in scenes of police trying to prevent entry as others pressed forward, what the hell were you thinking if you joined in that movement?

"Oh I'll just see what it's like in there, since some other people already broke in..." ??!​

Maybe there's no such charge as "being too spineless to resist peer pressure to commit a crime". But seems to me that there should be something a little north of littering or trespassing.
Alabama executed this guy:


But sure, let’s allow people who watched police get beat to death by fellow rioters and then proceeded to march around the Capitol like they owned the place off with a slap on the wrist.
 
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lizkat

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For a while I've approached this with "Could this happen under a Bernie supporter Presidency?" On one level it's a moot point because he wouldn't have said the vote was fraudulent and taken it to this level, but from the angle his views are also highly persecuted by the establishment with a lot of supporters who believe his views are spot on, who knows?

Also I don't know how much alcohol was in circulation.

So having said that, if I was a young(er than I am) Bernie supporter at a similar rally with some alcohol in my system a little late to the capitol and it appeared it was just a free for all entrance, I can't say with confidence that I wouldn't have been in there taking pictures and shooting videos to share with my friends on this forum.

Being a little late would have afforded you a pretty clear sense that lawbreaking was underway....
 

Huntn

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The seriousness of this requires jail time for all of the physical people, murder for some of them, assault and battery on law enforcement for appropriate cases, and felon status for anyone who entered the Capitol.

Those people did not walk into the Capitol in a vacuum, on a sight seeing tour, but in support of sedition. Sure, maybe some are so stupid, put some of them on probation, with loss of any gun carry permits for those who were armed.

And don’t forget Trump, the instigator of this half assed revolution, he and others at his Bag of Shits Rally who made incinerary statements should be in legal jeopardy.
 

Arkitect

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For a while I've approached this with "Could this happen under a Bernie supporter Presidency?"

Also I don't know how much alcohol was in circulation.

So having said that, if I was a young(er than I am) Bernie supporter at a similar rally with some alcohol in my system a little late to the capitol and it appeared it was just a free for all entrance, I can't say with confidence that I wouldn't have been in there taking pictures and shooting videos to share with my friends on this forum.
I have been wondering about what I would have done.

What if Trump had succeeded in his coup?

Would I not have felt compelled to go and protest and "protect" Democracy? Imagine the smirking Trump family on the steps of the Capitol? Truthfully I would have seen red.

And who is to say how things would have turned out?

I would, however, like to think my outrage would have been enough fuel and that I wouldn't need alcohol.
And as far as taking selfies while in the building?
Not. A. Chance.
Never.
Evah.

That is off the scale stupidity.

Surely everyone knows first thing is spray the security cameras. 😈

Edit:
Bastille, 1789
Winter Palace, 1917

My 21st Century self (at a very safe remove) would like to thing he'd be there waving a flag against autocracy.
 
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