Democrats need to acknowledge and condemn antifa

Chew Toy McCoy

Pleb
Vaccinated
Site Donor
Posts
5,784
Reaction score
8,819
Not so much out of fair is fair with Republicans and their white nationalists, but because antifa needs to stop being part of Republican whataboutism as if they have the blessing of Democrats and the left. Unlike Republicans and their white nationalists, antifa isn’t a voter base Democrats need to pander to. Condemn them, move on, and stop the easy target Republican deflection. They need to stop being sold as the face of every left movement by the right. There's no downside to condemning them.

And both sides need to stop with this “there are some good people in there with legitimate grievances and concerns” crap. There are far more people with those same grievances and concerns that aren’t part of an extremist group. Quit treating these extremist groups like the strongarm thugs you somewhat agree with and might need to do your violent dirty work.

This is just one part of leaders feeling they need to appear like they and their supporters are always right. Nobody is right all the time and admitting it isn’t a sign of weakness. Downplaying extremists or considering them part of your base is idiocy and is disrespectful to the voters who don't share those extreme views.
 

Chew Toy McCoy

Pleb
Vaccinated
Site Donor
Posts
5,784
Reaction score
8,819
What violence has Antifa committed? Isn’t it mostly a peaceful protest movement? Don’t they condemn the violent elements among their own ranks? These are not rhetorical questions.

There was a guy who randomly shot and killed somebody at a Seattle protest whose social media had him claim he was part of antifa. He killed himself when the authorities caught up with him. There was also a well known right wing blogger who got a concussion at a protest when antifa members started throwing objects at him. I’m sure you could find other incidents through googling.

Regardless, we don’t need shadow groups upping the level of violence and destruction of other movements and becoming the focal point of them.
 

Alli

Perfection
Staff Member
Vaccinated
Site Donor
Posts
4,946
Reaction score
9,984
Location
Alabackwards
And hence why I say we should condemn the violence and the looting
Absolutely. The problem there is that the Republicans have tried doing it that way and then blaming the rioting and looting on either Antifa or BLM without placing responsibility on anyone (or any group) in particular.
 

Chew Toy McCoy

Pleb
Vaccinated
Site Donor
Posts
5,784
Reaction score
8,819
I think condemning the violence is better than condemning “Antifa” which seems like a nebulous group/concept.

Let's put it another way, if a member of a white nationalist group killed a black person, would you or anybody on the left just go "That was just one isolated situation with one member. I'm sure the rest of the membership isn't about that type thing."?
 

Chew Toy McCoy

Pleb
Vaccinated
Site Donor
Posts
5,784
Reaction score
8,819
Absolutely. The problem there is that the Republicans have tried doing it that way and then blaming the rioting and looting on either Antifa or BLM without placing responsibility on anyone (or any group) in particular.

That's part of my point. What's the advantage to the left to just let antifa run amuck and claim to be part of the left?

If condemning the group seems a bit much, then along with condemning the violence they should make it clear that Democrats and the majority of the left are in no way aligned or affiliated with antifa. There's no shared dialogue or mission. They are there own thing.

How do you think black people feel about BLM being reduced down to antifa violence by half the country?
 

Eric

Mama's lil stinker
Vaccinated
Top Poster Of Month
Posts
8,431
Reaction score
16,463
Location
California
Instagram
Main Camera
Sony
Yeah, they march with others but aren't categorized as any sort group as Ali mentioned, even Republicans couldn't successfully pin it on them. However, the same people who demand that we condemn them were also silent during the murder of George Floyd except for to demonize those who protested the murder.

Looting during the protests are acts of opportunists, not necessarily a group anyway.

Additionally, those who do identify are taking a stand against fascism, hence the name, and any violence in the bigger picture is negligible. This post sounds like it's responding to a Fox News or Newsmax article somewhere.
 

SuperMatt

Site Master
Posts
7,690
Reaction score
14,520
Let's put it another way, if a member of a white nationalist group killed a black person, would you or anybody on the left just go "That was just one isolated situation with one member. I'm sure the rest of the membership isn't about that type thing."?
There are well-known white supremacist groups such as the KKK and proud boys. Antifa isn’t really anything. I mean, they do have membership cards (just ask @JayMysteri0 ) but according to that article and others I’ve seen, most people that identify as “Antifa” do NOT condone violence. The Proud Boys and KKK on the other hand...
 

lizkat

Deep deep blue
Vaccinated
Site Donor
Posts
5,901
Reaction score
12,517
Location
Catskill Mountains
Yeah, they march with others but aren't categorized as any sort group as Ali mentioned, even Republicans couldn't successfully pin it on them. However, the same people who demand that we condemn them were also silent during the murder of George Floyd except for to demonize those who protested the murder.

Looting during the protests are acts of opportunists, not necessarily a group anyway.

Additionally, those who do identify are taking a stand against fascism, hence the name, and any violence in the bigger picture is negligible. This post sounds like it's responding to a Fox News or Newsmax article somewhere.

Antifa was credited by some clergy with probably having saved lives at Charlottesville when some members stood between neo-Nazis and an ecumenical group of clergy peacefully protesting against the white supremacists.

Unfortunately though, it's not particularly difficult to infiltrate decentralized groups organized around a principle, when meaning to discredit such groups. This has been true in the USA since before the civil rights movement.

Some infiltrators are just anarchists and in a movement or particular event for the opportunity to create chaos.​
Others have an agenda and that can sometimes include law enforcement officials working undercover -- either just to identify those who instigate violence, or actually working to discredit those who organized a peaceful protest.. or sometimes both.​

And, as some have pointed out here, it's also unfortunately not that difficult to end up either actually or allegedly involved in committing violence once someone in a group decides deliberately to try take a protest down that road.​
I did see a few relatively small antiwar marches in NYC go that route during the Vietnam War. This even though march organizers had peace marshals and pre-protest meetings w/ police on how to minimize violence, how to steer participants in a protest away from the apparent center of an outbreak of violence so police could focus on perpetrators, etc.​

If you mean to be peaceful but to defend against aggression by others, and someone else lays a heavy hand on you or incites you to join in when violence breaks out, then sometimes all bets are off and you end up booked... and having to try to rationalize what just happened at your own hand.

And yeah, this can be someone in antifa. It can be anyone. The line between a protest and a mob is thin sometimes. So in my view antifa is a mixed bag when it comes to measuring its effectiveness against intentions of right wing extremists in a protest situation. There can be as much chance that aggression supposedly meant to be defended against by antifa instead arises (for whatever reason) from within its own ranks on a given occasion.
 

leekohler2

Power User
Posts
188
Reaction score
460
Not so much out of fair is fair with Republicans and their white nationalists, but because antifa needs to stop being part of Republican whataboutism as if they have the blessing of Democrats and the left. Unlike Republicans and their white nationalists, antifa isn’t a voter base Democrats need to pander to. Condemn them, move on, and stop the easy target Republican deflection. They need to stop being sold as the face of every left movement by the right. There's no downside to condemning them.

And both sides need to stop with this “there are some good people in there with legitimate grievances and concerns” crap. There are far more people with those same grievances and concerns that aren’t part of an extremist group. Quit treating these extremist groups like the strongarm thugs you somewhat agree with and might need to do your violent dirty work.

This is just one part of leaders feeling they need to appear like they and their supporters are always right. Nobody is right all the time and admitting it isn’t a sign of weakness. Downplaying extremists or considering them part of your base is idiocy and is disrespectful to the voters who don't share those extreme views.
Should the left have disavowed the gay rights movement because the right used it against them for decades?
Sorry but NO. Condemn violence and looting. But to condemn a group that is literally anti-fascist is ludicrous. Can’t get on board with that. No way, no how.
 

Chew Toy McCoy

Pleb
Vaccinated
Site Donor
Posts
5,784
Reaction score
8,819
Ah man, a bunch of lefties who still think arguing specific incidents and using comparison charts matters to the right.

Then I guess enjoy listening to the right blaming Antifa for years for everything from dented bumpers to droughts because nobody on the left is going to segregate Antifa from the rest of the left. I just hope there isn’t a cause that’s important to you that Antifa becomes the focus of that and completely destroys all original meaning of that cause.
 

leekohler2

Power User
Posts
188
Reaction score
460
Ah man, a bunch of lefties who still think arguing specific incidents and using comparison charts matters to the right.

Then I guess enjoy listening to the right blaming Antifa for years for everything from dented bumpers to droughts because nobody on the left is going to segregate Antifa from the rest of the left. I just hope there isn’t a cause that’s important to you that Antifa becomes the focus of that and completely destroys all original meaning of that cause.
See my above post.
 
Top Bottom