Electric Scooters

DT

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Exactly, a bike would definitely be a nicer ride. This thing is bumpy and definitely gives your whole body more of a workout than one might think by standing and adjusting the entire time you're riding.

Hahaha, when I used to ride dirt bikes pretty regularly (a L O N G time ago ...) I'd mention how exhausting it was, and some people would say, "Why? If you're just riding a motorcycle?" :ROFLMAO:
 

Renzatic

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Hahaha, when I used to ride dirt bikes pretty regularly (a L O N G time ago ...) I'd mention how exhausting it was, and some people would say, "Why? If you're just riding a motorcycle?" :ROFLMAO:

I have a cousin who used to race dirtbikes way back in the day. Kid me thought it was pretty cool, but then I saw him break his collarbone 5 times.
 

rdrr

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You will never catch me in the roadway on a 40lb vehicle that tops out at under 20mph with 2000+ lb vehicles that don’t seem to know how to drive under 30mph. And bike lanes that are really just gutters with painted line are even worse for scooter users than bike users (and they are bad for both).

Car-centric infrastructure is a plague, and we need more room for all other modes of transport (bikes, scooters, pedestrians) instead of us fighting for the scraps.
The problem with City infrastructure is that it's too late in a lot of the older cities. There are plenty of examples in Boston that redesigning the streets for bike lines is causing bigger headaches. Taking away a lane for bike lanes is making an already commute congested city worse, and more importantly removing parking which is cascading into local merchants complaining about it reducing the amount of business they receive. We got to figure out a better way of retrofitting these bike lanes without reducing auto traffic capacity or impacting residents.
 

DT

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I have a cousin who used to race dirtbikes way back in the day. Kid me thought it was pretty cool, but then I saw him break his collarbone 5 times.

Hahaha, would you like to see my mangled collarbone? :D
 

Nycturne

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The problem with City infrastructure is that it's too late in a lot of the older cities.

It can be expensive, but it's never too late. We paved over cities to create what we have now at great expense (and great detriment to historically black neighborhoods). But it's also possible to slowly, incrementally, address it. Paris in particular is going at this head on, with the same sort of growing pains Amsterdam saw decades ago, but it's also clear the shift is already happening. There's clear tipping points that once you reach them, the benefits begin to materialize and you get the demand for further improvements. Not that different from EVs in that regard, or really any form of transportation.

It was the same with the interstate system and the car-based road system we have today.

There are plenty of examples in Boston that redesigning the streets for bike lines is causing bigger headaches. Taking away a lane for bike lanes is making an already commute congested city worse, and more importantly removing parking which is cascading into local merchants complaining about it reducing the amount of business they receive. We got to figure out a better way of retrofitting these bike lanes without reducing auto traffic capacity or impacting residents.

Part of the problem I see with how NA cities have done this is that these decisions tend to be made in terms of roads, not trips. Bike lanes being added do nothing if the infrastructure doesn't support real trips being made, or don't make riders feel safe (see my comment about bike gutters). So if I take away a lane without alternatives for trips being made, and fail to attach those bike lanes to real destinations, or make it unlikely that the average family member feels safe using those lanes, of course it will fail to solve the problem. People make trips, and will make those trips in a way that is easy and safe for them. They aren't "cyclists" or "pedestrians" or "drivers".

Anything we do here needs to be comprehensive. It means zoning for neighborhoods that include mixed use, allowing people to make shorter trips and having amenities available to them that don't require a car to access safely. It means having places to secure things like bikes/scooters/etc at those destinations. It means public transit accessibility for longer trips. And yes, car access should still be in play. It's not just about swapping one type of lane for another, but rather a rethinking of transportation in a holistic, people-centric mindset rather than a car-centric one. Otherwise you get into the "when you have a hammer, everything's a nail" mindset we currently have. Car infrastructure is expensive, and makes other forms of infrastructure more expensive due to sprawl. It's starting to be shown that the sprawl makes it harder for a city to remain solvent compared to more dense cities that don't devote a third of their land to cars. Historic districts and modern mixed use districts being the core revenue centers for today's NA cities.

Anyways, I've let this topic get derailed, so it's probably better to move this to a separate thread.
 

Macky-Mac

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You will never catch me in the roadway on a 40lb vehicle that tops out at under 20mph with 2000+ lb vehicles that don’t seem to know how to drive under 30mph. And bike lanes that are really just gutters with painted line are even worse for scooter users than bike users (and they are bad for both).

Car-centric infrastructure is a plague, and we need more room for all other modes of transport (bikes, scooters, pedestrians) instead of us fighting for the scraps.

Knowing someone whose wife was killed as a result of being hit by bicycle whose rider decided to zoom along the clearly posted pedestrian walkway.....I'm in favor of separated pathways. Unfortunately our infrastructure has been built otherwise. That doesn't mean that scooter and bike riders are free to disregard the various rules and regulations that apply to them.
 

Eric

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Knowing someone whose wife was killed as a result of being hit by bicycle whose rider decided to zoom along the clearly posted pedestrian walkway.....I'm in favor of separated pathways. Unfortunately our infrastructure has been built otherwise. That doesn't mean that scooter and bike riders are free to disregard the various rules and regulations that apply to them.
I don't know about other areas but here in CA there are bike paths and paved trails everywhere, many of which are off the beaten path, more than I would ever be able to ride on. I also adhere to whatever the rules of the road are, if I'm at a stop light I won't go until it turns green, etc. as if I am in my car. Bicyclists who ignore these while getting mad at drivers on the road are infuriating so I made a vow not to be THAT guy.
 

Nycturne

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Knowing someone whose wife was killed as a result of being hit by bicycle whose rider decided to zoom along the clearly posted pedestrian walkway.....I'm in favor of separated pathways. Unfortunately our infrastructure has been built otherwise. That doesn't mean that scooter and bike riders are free to disregard the various rules and regulations that apply to them.

I don’t disagree with the bolded statement. There are a ton of multi-use trails in my area (pedestrian and cycling/etc) with speed limits, and that sort of shared use only works when there’s space to safely pass, and people are acting responsibly with other traffic. Those rules are necessary.

While these trails are in good shape and have plenty of room, I’m well aware that many sidewalks/etc are not spacious, and barely have room for two people to pass at walking speeds, let alone at 10-15mph. And I do see cyclists ignoring the 15mph speed limit on these multi-use trails and doing upwards of 25mph. Screw that.

I do sympathize with those who have had to go through loss because of people acting irresponsibly (I have to hope that rider was charged with manslaughter at an absolute minimum). My statement is more that throwing scooter/bike riders to the wolves (i.e. putting them into an equally bad position in terms of safety) isn’t the answer either. This doesn’t need to become a trolley problem. But please don’t take my response as “scooters need sidewalk access” either.

I don't know about other areas but here in CA there are bike paths and paved trails everywhere, many of which are off the beaten path, more than I would ever be able to ride on. I also adhere to whatever the rules of the road are, if I'm at a stop light I won't go until it turns green, etc. as if I am in my car. Bicyclists who ignore these while getting mad at drivers on the road are infuriating so I made a vow not to be THAT guy.

Same. The local county has been doing some heavy work on “rails to trails” so we’re starting to see a bit of an inter-city network form.

I just ordered one of these for when I am not in the mood for hauling the whole bike. Segway should pay you commission.
 

Eric

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I don’t disagree with the bolded statement. There are a ton of multi-use trails in my area (pedestrian and cycling/etc) with speed limits, and that sort of shared use only works when there’s space to safely pass, and people are acting responsibly with other traffic. Those rules are necessary.

While these trails are in good shape and have plenty of room, I’m well aware that many sidewalks/etc are not spacious, and barely have room for two people to pass at walking speeds, let alone at 10-15mph. And I do see cyclists ignoring the 15mph speed limit on these multi-use trails and doing upwards of 25mph. Screw that.

I do sympathize with those who have had to go through loss because of people acting irresponsibly (I have to hope that rider was charged with manslaughter at an absolute minimum). My statement is more that throwing scooter/bike riders to the wolves (i.e. putting them into an equally bad position in terms of safety) isn’t the answer either. This doesn’t need to become a trolley problem. But please don’t take my response as “scooters need sidewalk access” either.



Same. The local county has been doing some heavy work on “rails to trails” so we’re starting to see a bit of an inter-city network form.

I just ordered one of these for when I am not in the mood for hauling the whole bike. Segway should pay you commission.
Congrats, you’ll love it.
 

Nycturne

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Got it in today, and after charging up to 90%, took it out for about 6 miles. I'm a bit on the heavy side for the scooter, so while it was fine on the flats, it really doesn't like the hills with me on it, getting stuck on some of the steeper ones at around 13% grade (7.5 degrees).

It's nice, but it does make me wonder if I should be looking at something like the P65 instead.
 

Eric

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Got it in today, and after charging up to 90%, took it out for about 6 miles. I'm a bit on the heavy side for the scooter, so while it was fine on the flats, it really doesn't like the hills with me on it, getting stuck on some of the steeper ones at around 13% grade (7.5 degrees).

It's nice, but it does make me wonder if I should be looking at something like the P65 instead.
I had this problem at first as well, putting into Sport mode solved it as it gives more torque all around. In fact reading up on it, it looks like everyone just leaves it in that mode. If you haven't tried it give a shot, it's way better.
 

DT

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So @Nycturne and @Eric, you both have the G30?

The P65 looks to be a soon-to-be-released model with beefier specs and not priced yet, but I see rumors of ~$1400, in some of those same (Reddit) threads I see mention of a P100 model too!
 

Nycturne

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This was in Sport and above 70% battery, unfortunately. Around 13% grade is about as high as it can go with my weight with me zig zagging up the road to stop it from stalling out. I'm not that disappointed, as I knew going in that I was close to the limit and that it might not hold up to the marketing numbers (one reason I got the e-bike was to get more active while not worrying about getting stuck on hills to help start fighting back on the weight before it became too difficult). But I plan on giving it more time to see how much of a problem it is outside the larger hills near the house. 10+% grade isn't that common around here, but some of the trails I bike on can hit up to 18% grade. I don't ride those very often. The pandemic has meant I haven't been able to use the bike to get to work and back, but that route would be a 6% grade worst case.

That said, I am impressed how quick it was otherwise. Had no problem pushing me at 19mph down to around 60% battery. Below 50% battery when I did a couple miles right out of the box it was still able to hit 16-17mph in Sport. I think I like the medium regen setting the most, a nice amount of regen braking for making turns without too much lurching.

One nice thing about bikes: being able to change gear for better climbing. That hill on the work route is something I can take at 13-15mph on the e-bike, which I couldn't do otherwise.

So @Nycturne and @Eric, you both have the G30?

The P65 looks to be a soon-to-be-released model with beefier specs and not priced yet, but I see rumors of ~$1400, in some of those same (Reddit) threads I see mention of a P100 model too!

Yes, the G30 is still in stock on Amazon in the US, and has the 10% discount that Segway is offering (if they had stock in their own store).

The P65 is also still up on Kickstarter for 200$ off the 1399$ price until they X number of people get that discounted price. They're running it more like a pre-order run, which means it's still open for people to jump in up to Sep 1st. Extra 150W nominal motor would help in the hills, but it's also a faster unit which doesn't interest me as much. Speed limit on the shared paths around here is 15mph, and bike traffic tends to go anywhere from 12-17mph except for the extreme road warrior types who will do 20+mph. I'm fine zipping along at 15mph on this thing, plenty fast for a scooter to ride on paved and gravel trails, IMO. If I wanted a 25mph commuter, I feel like an e-bike is still going to be a better pick for having control at those speeds. But around here, the 15mph paths tend to be straight-shots compared to trying the same thing on surface streets with cars at 25mph.

P100 looks a lot like a moped you stand on. Fast, but not really something you can or should take onto public shared use paths, IMO.
 

Nycturne

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Not sure how, but already have 20mi on the odometer from some time during lunch and a longer ride after wrapping up work. Looking like 25mi on a single charge in Sport is doable, which is plenty.

Not a fan of the app’s range guess-o-meter. It doesn’t seem to learn, so it’s really just another battery %.
 

Eric

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Not sure how, but already have 20mi on the odometer from some time during lunch and a longer ride after wrapping up work. Looking like 25mi on a single charge in Sport is doable, which is plenty.

Not a fan of the app’s range guess-o-meter. It doesn’t seem to learn, so it’s really just another battery %.
That pretty much matches up with what I've read in sport mode, I agree it's not bad all considering. Yeah, like the Tesla it's all really just a guess with a bunch of unforeseen variables which is why I always go by percentage and not miles as well.
 

Nycturne

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Yeah, like the Tesla it's all really just a guess with a bunch of unforeseen variables which is why I always go by percentage and not miles as well.

It doesn’t feel like it’s even trying to guess though? It still thinks a full charge is the 40mi marketing range after 20mi in Sport.
 

Eric

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This latest Segway G2 is insane, 43 MPH with dual suspension and motors, will go 0 to 30 in 3.5 seconds. Waaaay too much for this old man but still cool af.

 

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I missed most of this. but standup scooters suck for long rides since you don't move around. great for sort rides my battery died because of the pandemic. I used to ride mine to the movies Now I stick with my E bike.
 

Eric

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I missed most of this. but standup scooters suck for long rides since you don't move around. great for sort rides my battery died because of the pandemic. I used to ride mine to the movies Now I stick with my E bike.
Speaking for myself I've put hundreds of miles on it and can't get enough.
 
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