Electric Vehicles: General topics

[rdrr]

I have some info, but do you mind if I move this over the Car >> EV thread?

And here we are

So at home you can use a 120v (Level 1) but clearly if you can accommodate a 240v Level 2 it's much better. L2 chargers (not to be confused with Tesla fast Level 2 public systems) are generally going to be up to 40 amps, and there's standard protocol that you should only charge about 80% of the circuit spec, i.e., a 40a charger should be on a 50a circuit.

The max amps for the circuit will depend on the existing panel configuration. We went with 50a, we have existing 200a service, and we had space for the 2-pole breaker right in the existing panel.

If it's not a hardwired charger, it'll use a NEMA specification for the receptacle, with a 50a/240v that would be either an N6-50 or an N14-50, for charging an EV, those are effectively the same. The 14-50 is common in RV parks, the 6-50 is used by equipment like a welder. The big difference is the 14-50 supports both 120 and 240 so it's useful for something like an RV that might have lighting but also an oven. Because it requires a dedicated neutral it can be more expensive to install.

I had the simpler N6-50 installed. We got a pretty great deal, the install, parts, from a certified electrician was ~$220, but a few things about that price: simple 18" wire run, existing panel with no issues, the whole area easily accessible on the back wall of the garage.

I like that I can easily unplug it, and if the need arose, swap out chargers.

While we're on the subject, these types of boxes aren't really "chargers", they're an EVSE, it's basically an AC switch, the actual charger is built into the vehicle.

There's two plug specs: Tesla and a J1772, that can be used by a Tesla with an adapter they provide.

We use a Grill-E Smart charger, it's fantastic, 40a, N6-50, 3 year warranty, built like a tank, 24' cable.

I need to jet, but I'll add a few more things in a bit

Feel like I am drinking from a firehose, but I did ask for it...

 

[quagmire]

I have been looking at preparing for charge at home station. I am sure I could just google it and I probably will... But I would love to know what people had to do to put one in. I am about to put a 60 Amp sub-panel outside on my shed, and am wondering if that is good enough.

Mine was a bit more involved since the garage the Tesla is in is detached and away from the main panel which required digging, etc. So that made it pricey for me. I had to do a sub-panel in the detached garage that is 80A that is broken down into 60A for the Tesla Wall Connector ( max rate of 48A) and 20A for the 120V stuff like the garage door opener, light, and normal outlet.

I went with the Wall Connector because I wanted to keep the mobile connector that comes with the car in the car at all times and it is bad to unplug/replug something into a 14-50 outlet. So the cost of another mobile connector+14-50 adapter+14-50 outlet made it easier for me to spring the extra money for the wall connector.

If that 60A panel is only going to be used for EV charging, that is fine. If it will be shared, it will still be fine, you will just have to limit the car/charger to a lower amp. Like the split being 40A/20A. Then the car should charge no higher than 32A which is still plenty for a home charger.

 

[SuperMatt]

I have been looking at preparing for charge at home station. I am sure I could just google it and I probably will... But I would love to know what people had to do to put one in. I am about to put a 60 Amp sub-panel outside on my shed, and am wondering if that is good enough.

I use a level 1 charger (120V)… nothing fancy - it came with the car. It just plugs into a regular electrical outlet.

 

[DT]

Feel like I am drinking from a firehose, but I did ask for it...

If didn't have to run out, it would've been 2-3X longer hahahaha

So some additional info that @quagmire didn't cover above.

And I'll just discuss some additional Tesla specifics.

First, some terminology, Tesla has a Tesla Mobile Connector, that's an EVSE (aka "charger") that's supplied with the car. It very lightweight, has a decent carrying case, and it can supply up to 32a charging. Obviously, it's a Tesla specific connector. Here's the neat thing: it's modular and you can buy different plugs - it comes with a N5-25, that's your standard household 120V/15a outlet. That plug can be removed, and you can install several other ones, for different volts/amps, they're like $35-45 each, and they even have a kit with all of them.

The Tesla Wall Connector which is their wall mounted / semi-perm product, it allows up to 48a, ~44 miles per hour. It's hard wired into the circuit and requires wiring/breaker that supports 60a at the box.

I have the pack-in N5-15, and a N6-50 in case our Grizzl-E craps out, and I also have an N14-30 which is the current spec used for most clothes dryers, it's a 240v/30a, I got that in case we wanted to charge down at the BIL's place in NSB (we go down quite a bit and it's also our planned hurricane evac location). It's also very slick in that it sets the charging spec when you plug in the adapter (the adapter has some IC logic).

So the volts/amps determines the charge speed, at 40a, I get about 36-37 miles per hour. At 30a is about 30, etc.

Our 40a charger plugs in, and we leave it plugged in, and like I said, I specifically went 3rd party because I wanted a single charger that would charge the Tesla and the Jeep with a simple adapter.

This is our actual install:

 

[rdrr]

If didn't have to run out, it would've been 2-3X longer hahahaha

So some additional info that @quagmire didn't cover above.

And I'll just discuss some additional Tesla specifics.

First, some terminology, Tesla has a Tesla Mobile Connector, that's an EVSE (aka "charger") that's supplied with the car. It very lightweight, has a decent carrying case, and it can supply up to 32a charging. Obviously, it's a Tesla specific connector. Here's the neat thing: it's modular and you can buy different plugs - it comes with a N5-25, that's your standard household 120V/15a outlet. That plug can be removed, and you can install several other ones, for different volts/amps, they're like $35-45 each, and they even have a kit with all of them.

The Tesla Wall Connector which is their wall mounted / semi-perm product, it allows up to 48a, ~44 miles per hour. It's hard wired into the circuit and requires wiring/breaker that supports 60a at the box.

I have the pack-in N5-15, and a N6-50 in case our Grizzl-E craps out, and I also have an N14-30 which is the current spec used for most clothes dryers, it's a 240v/30a, I got that in case we wanted to charge down at the BIL's place in NSB (we go down quite a bit and it's also our planned hurricane evac location). It's also very slick in that it sets the charging spec when you plug in the adapter (the adapter has some IC logic).

So the volts/amps determines the charge speed, at 40a, I get about 36-37 miles per hour. At 30a is about 30, etc.

Our 40a charger plugs in, and we leave it plugged in, and like I said, I specifically went 3rd party because I wanted a single charger that would charge the Tesla and the Jeep with a simple adapter.

This is our actual install:

View attachment 10433

Are you fully on the grid or do you have solar to augment your electrical consumption? Also I am trying to calculate out price per month of an EV vs. ICE. How have you measured your $/mile?

 

[DT]

Are you fully on the grid or do you have solar to augment your electrical consumption? Also I am trying to calculate out price per month of an EV vs. ICE. How have you measured your $/mile?

We're straight grid, I have a buddy with Solar just a few miles away, two Teslas, he's run them for free for like 4 years.

The power here, charging from home, is ~$0.11/kWh, and the battery in my M3P is 82kWh, so a 0% to 100% is ~$9.00 and that's ~300 miles. However, we wouldn't run under 15-20% in most cases.

So for example: 300 miles in an ICE vehicle that gets 25 MPG would be 300 miles / 25 MPG, 12 gallons x $3.75 = $45 50MPG? That's $22.50, that's still 2.5X more expensive (and I didn't have to stop at a station or pump gas).

If you do the calculation the other way, for $9 I could get 2.4g of gas at $3.75 meaning, if I got 300 miles out of 2.4 gallons, I'm getting 125 MPG.

And, those 50MPG cars are __slow__. Sure, that's not a factor for everyone, but it's where a car like a Tesla just upends the normal expectations, better "MPG" than an econobox, faster than a fuel guzzling performance car.

Now that does NOT address supercharging, that's a high power DC fast charging systems that do like 500+ miles/hour, my first 1000 miles was free, so I haven't paid anything for Superchargers, so my first 3000 miles (that included 6 250+ trips to the airport), was like $70. ~850 miles free supercharging, otherwise home charging.

 

[quagmire]

Now that does NOT address supercharging, that's a high power DC fast charging systems that do like 500+ miles/hour, my first 1000 miles was free, so I haven't paid anything for Superchargers, so my first 3000 miles (that included 6 250+ trips to the airport), was like $70. ~850 miles free supercharging, otherwise home charging.

Keep in mind for @rdrr , this was a perk for using another persons referral link when ordering a Tesla that gave DT the free 1000 miles in supercharging.

A perk that is no longer available. Only referrals for Tesla Solar have some kind of value now.

 

[DT]

Keep in mind for @rdrr , this was a perk for using another persons referral link when ordering a Tesla that gave DT the free 1000 miles in supercharging.

A perk that is no longer available. Only referrals for Tesla Solar have some kind of value now.

Right, and that also assumes a Tesla, when we start getting into DC Fast Charging for other brands, I have no idea, we've never used a public charger for the Jeep.

I mean, clearly that 3000 mile cost is nuts, which is why I clarified 850 miles being free. I also "over charged" for those 850 miles, I could've done 1/2 that and just arrived home more like 20-25% vs. 50+, so even if I use that math, that's about $144 + $70 for home charging, so $214

I also charged a number of times at a Universal resort for free, so that's like 100-110 miles of free mileage per trip, but I didn't even calculate that in. But for fun, if we do ~130 miles from here to, let's say, the Portofino, and then top off for free that's like a 260 mile trip for ~$4.00

 

[DT]

I didn't realize the free 1000 miles was more like "Free charging power for the average mileage equivalency of 1000 miles"

i.e., for an ICE car, if I gave away 1000 miles of gas, the cost could be very different depending on the car, driver/type of driving, etc. However, if I said, 30 gallons of 89 octane from Shell, it's a little more consistent.

I had 158 miles left, I hit up the L3 SuC at 117 miles available, figured charge to 275 miles and I'd be at close to zero free miles left. Well, no After adding 158 miles from my balance of 158 free miles I still have 55 free miles

So it's basically the same thing it's a fixed amount of juice, that at some X consumption rate would be 1000 miles, but if MY_RATE < X then it could be 1200, 1300, 1400+ miles.

 

[quagmire]

With BBB dead, here is waiting forever for my moms Model Y as the idiots putting their orders on hold now flood the system.....

*Don't mean to get political so don't go that way, but I disagree with people who have had orders since 2020 on hold in hopes of the tax credits coming back for Tesla's. Take delivery of the car or cancel the damn order.

 

[SuperMatt]

With BBB dead, here is waiting forever for my moms Model Y as the idiots putting their orders on hold now flood the system.....

*Don't mean to get political so don't go that way, but I disagree with people who have had orders since 2020 on hold in hopes of the tax credits coming back for Tesla's. Take delivery of the car or cancel the damn order.

Gotta say - Tesla has really gotten their message out there. People could buy an EV today WITH a tax credit but will wait months for a Tesla.

 

[User.45]

Excellent. I have been seriously considering getting an e-bike, because even though my getting back into shape is going really well, it still is a huge hassle coming back home, since I live on a big ass hill. An e-bike would allow me to go further and faster and I find the idea fascinating. Does anybody have some experience with e-bikes? I am not looking to spend $6000 on some fancy hipster e-bike. I've set the budget at around the equivalent of $3000 and I am seriously looking at this thing

Cyrusher XF800 Ebike. Mountain Electric Bike. 50 miles electric bicycle

50+ miles/charge full suspension ebike. This fat tire electric bicycle rides very smoothly. The choice or preference among many of our mountain electric bikers. Perfect for the trails, and the best seller in our ebike catalog.

www.cyrusher.co.uk

28 mph top speed and around 50 miles range. Sounds pretty sweet. The red and black colour scheme tickles me in all the right ways in all the right places.

XP 3.0 Black Step-Thru Electric Bike | Lectric eBikes

See our XP Step-Thru 3.0 eBike that allows bikers to easily mount and ride their electric bike, even enabling those with mobility issues. Shop today.

lectricebikes.com

I got this one. I wanted a foldable one so I can jam it in my car or put it away in my office as needed.

In the USA these are limited to 20 MPH, My commute is 1.5 miles, and I use about 10% of battery to do it, but it's like 20% the uphill direction and more like 3% on the way back, but it seems to be charging. The suspension is ridiculously good, and overall it's the ideal price. Since I can charge it at work, the range doesn't matter much. It's heavy AF though. ~30-35Kg, so carrying it up stairs takes some effort.

 

[DT]

I got this one. I wanted a foldable one so I can jam it in my car or put it away in my office as needed.

Neat. A folding bike is really appealing, where it could be used on a road trip, where you need some quick and easy transportation at your destination and could leave your main vehicle parked.

Oh man, a couple of these for a trip to Savannah would be amazing, you could easily navigate the entire city (and when we go, we park on day one, and the car doesn't move till the end of the trip).

 

[User.168]

.

 

[User.168]

.

 

[User.45]

Neat. A folding bike is really appealing, where it could be used on a road trip, where you need some quick and easy transportation at your destination and could leave your main vehicle parked.

Oh man, a couple of these for a trip to Savannah would be amazing, you could easily navigate the entire city (and when we go, we park on day one, and the car doesn't move till the end of the trip).

The only theoretical drawback is once you hit the speed limit on the bike, the more you pedal the more it cuts back on pedal assist, i.e. if you wanna over the speed limit, it has to be done by you 100%. I'm fine with it, but it's not for speed daemons



-------
So Ioniq 5's lane keep assist is already smarter than Tesla's autopilot... It adjusts the position of the car within the lane if it's adjacent to another car.

 

[DT]

So Ioniq 5's lane keep assist is already smarter than Tesla's autopilot... It adjusts the position of the car within the lane if it's adjacent to another car.

AP does this, certainly when you're passing a wider vehicle it compensates.

Gotta say - Tesla has really gotten their message out there. People could buy an EV today WITH a tax credit but will wait months for a Tesla.

Tesla is to Electric Vehicles as Xerox is to Photocopiers, they've definitely got a ton of brand equity in the space, at least for now (which is why I leased, zero liability, in 2-1/2 years, I hand the car back over, if their value tanks, if new battery tech decimates the potential equity, if the expansion of Superchargers to non-Tesla vehicles is significant - no sweat.

My two big buyer desires, one of which I think is a top priority for quite a few buyers, at least is the US: performance and charging network. The world class AWD system, killer audio, infotainment tech, etc., were certainly positive considerations vs. the potentially chaotically nutty ownership experience, but everything else considered equal, like if the BMW I4 was available at the time, same price, hell, even close to the same performance - the charging infrastructure, from my perspective, as an absolute advantage over the other options.


@quagmire

Got 44.6 last night, passed up 40.x, went directly from 36.8, some good stuff: Waypoints (finally ...), Tidal integration, new cold weather/defrost control, the extended driver profiles / cloud based (for multiple cars), a couple of "undocumented" features like Supercharger performance improvement, not sure if it's for a specific model variant and/or specific battery chemistry[?]

Oh, hahaha, and I left 25 free Supercharger miles on the table (it's gone this morning), I was close Based on my home charging cost, that 25 miles had a cost of ~$0.72

[edit]

And I'm glad to see the list of SuCs is back vs. just being shown on the map.

For those folks NITK, you get a real time display of Supercharger status, i.e., number of stalls and number available. Then you select one, send to car, and your nav is all setup to get to it, which also includes activating battery conditioning so when you arrive you get the fastest possible charging.

 

[User.45]

AP does this, certainly when you're passing a wider vehicle it compensates.

I didn't see this at all on my rental.

killer audio

Do you use USB sourcing? Just because through BT it's totally mediocre.

the charging infrastructure, from my perspective, as an absolute advantage over the other options.

Agree, 100%. The charging infrastructure and the way the car handles it is really something else.

Tidal integration

Does this mean this goes directly on the car's HD and does Lossless?
Apple Music is far superior to Tidal and far far far far superior to Spotify in sound quality (and selection)

 

[quagmire]

@quagmire

Got 44.6 last night, passed up 40.x, went directly from 36.8, some good stuff: Waypoints (finally ...), Tidal integration, new cold weather/defrost control, the extended driver profiles / cloud based (for multiple cars), a couple of "undocumented" features like Supercharger performance improvement, not sure if it's for a specific model variant and/or specific battery chemistry[?]

Oh, hahaha, and I left 25 free Supercharger miles on the table (it's gone this morning), I was close Based on my home charging cost, that 25 miles had a cost of ~$0.72

We are still update buddies! 44.6 also popped up. Now do we Vision only folk get the holiday update that is supposedly coming tomorrow according to Lord Elon?

 

[DT]

We are still update buddies! 44.6 also popped up. Now do we Vision only folk get the holiday update that is supposedly coming tomorrow according to Lord Elon?

Us peasants couldn't possibly comprehend his vision of the universe ... I'll light a candle in his name and hope for the best ...