Electric Vehicles: General topics

DT

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More on the Ioniq 5 N. High performance hatch? Sure!

Photo is just a rendering but based on the real, existing vehicle, it could be pretty close:

1662995208851.png





However, when asked about an exact power figure Biermann remained coy:

"It’s not finalised, it could be 580, 600, 620 PS [427kW, 441kW, 456kW]. It’s a lot.”
 

Nycturne

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With VW continuing to struggle, I did get a hold of a local dealership that won’t do markups on the Ioniq 5. The markups being the reason I removed it from consideration before, as the price jumps into Model Y territory. The wait list is around 5-7 months, which is about what I’m expecting on the ID.4 still. The bad news is that they require a non-refundable deposit, so I really want to be able to drive one of these before I put money down, but nobody has one available to drive except on Turo.
 

DT

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I kind of wished I would've driven an Ioniq 5 at the NYC Auto Show, they had a whole track setup (indoor and outdoor), just a bit of a wait. I did sit in in one :D


IMG_1169_1920.jpg
 

quagmire

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I kind of wished I would've driven an Ioniq 5 at the NYC Auto Show, they had a whole track setup (indoor and outdoor), just a bit of a wait. I did sit in in one :D


View attachment 17643

That interior alone will prevent me from buying one despite loving the exterior design.

It just screams cheap.... Worse than GM interiors at their worst.
 

Nycturne

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Got invited to lock my ID.4 reservation (almost 3 months from reservation to lock), which means they are hoping to start sending these into the production queue at Chattanooga in the coming weeks/months. Still refundable, so not much reason not to put the money down and stay in line as long as possible. I also have an Ioniq 5 that I'm renting for a couple days this week that I need to go pick up tomorrow. Then I'll decide if it's worth the risk of putting down a non-refundable deposit there. Honestly, at least on paper, these two are the closest to what I actually want out of a car. But it's trade offs between the two.

VW's reputation at the moment for QC isn't as good as Hyundai's (more reports of issues, more serious issues reported), and VW has yet to push out a single software update in the US, despite those updates including fixes for issues folks are actively hitting and showing up on new cars. Put bluntly, VW has a software deployment problem and seemingly higher chance of hitting issues with the electric drivetrain. However, the ID.4 was actually a really good car, and more intended for light towing and hitch use (something I like). I also prefer the more curved, if a little bland, look of the ID.4. It's also a bit cheaper than the Ioniq. I don't hate the Ionic 5's exterior, but I honestly am not in love with it either. It winds up looking like it's covered in plastic more than other cars, because of the silver trim bits. The ID.4 was at just the perfect height to get into and out of for me and the partner as well, with comfortable seats. Hyundai's steering wheel and dash controls are better than the ID.4 though, and that's a pretty big deal. Having rocker switches that look like touch controls on the steering wheel is better than actual touch controls. Having some physical buttons and a volume knob is good. Being able to deliver software updates and fix issues (and create new ones apparently) is very helpful.

I think VW of America did a bit of a self-own with the 2023 color/interior options though, which does make the light interiors on the Hyundai more appealing.

I guess I'll see if the interior materials feel as bad as some folks say (quagmire isn't the only one that's commented on the interior materials), and how the Ioniq 5 feels to drive. Honestly, the main thing that would tip me over to the Ioniq 5 is the controls/reliability/comfort during the rental period. But I think it's going to be a tough call, I wouldn't be surprised if I have a reservation on both. :|
 

Nycturne

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Yeah, I see what folks mean about the cheap interior. That same silver-coated plastic you’d find on cheap electronics, lots of hard touch plastics on the lower trim level. The screens are fine to me though, no complaints there. Not sure I like the seats. Hug my back a bit too aggressively compared to the Outback and ID.4. And the cargo area feels small even though at least in width and depth it isn’t much different than an ID.4. The suspension is fine, but something just feels “off” about it compared to what I’m used to. It feels a lot like an Impreza-style hatchback that got inflated in size and made into an EV, in many ways.

But boy does the steering wheel beat VW‘s, and the whole car feels a lot more familiar to someone coming from other Japanese or Korean cars. And the driver assist features are more intuitive to me trying to use them without any instruction on the freeway. The cabin is dead quiet. The ID.4 cabin is also quiet, but I find the controls a little more quirky. I’d get used to them fine, but it is a compromise. Also a fan of the adjustable regen paddles on the Ioniq 5. In terms of control, I kinda have to give it to Hyundai as the tech is just better integrated and sorted.

In terms of looks, I still think I like the ID.4 better. The Ioniq 5 exterior is… fine. But I think bringing that silver-coated plastic out to the exterior was a mistake, and cheapens the rest of the design, and that the retro-future may not age all that well compared to Tesla’s minimalistic design language. The ID.4 may be a bit boring, but it also feels a bit more comfortable using shapes that would be mostly at home on a Subaru.

I could definitely get used to charging at home though. That is huge. Drive home, plug in for a couple hours to top up, and pretty much always have a mostly full tank ready to go? That will spoil me, big time.
 

DT

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@Nycturne

Funny, I had almost the exact same take (and a post sitting in the editor I never made ...) about the Ioniq 5 as you, specifically this:

But I think bringing that silver-coated plastic out to the exterior was a mistake, and cheapens the rest of the design, and that the retro-future may not age all that well compared to Tesla’s minimalistic design language.

The design is very quirky, it's also very present, so in a couple of years, when retro isn't a thing, it might age poorly. That's the thing with car designs, either it's a big swing, and if it connects, can become classic, or, it's minimal, functional, and it's kind of age resistant. I think the latter can be done while having some character, unique design elements, but it's a tricky balance.

Home charging is so much of a game changer. Today, I have a long-er-ish distance drop off, I'll charge to 100%, make the round trip of ~200 miles, and when I'm home, just plug in. No stop, no hassle, and the trip will cost ~$6 :D
 

Eric

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Yeah, I see what folks mean about the cheap interior. That same silver-coated plastic you’d find on cheap electronics, lots of hard touch plastics on the lower trim level. The screens are fine to me though, no complaints there. Not sure I like the seats. Hug my back a bit too aggressively compared to the Outback and ID.4. And the cargo area feels small even though at least in width and depth it isn’t much different than an ID.4. The suspension is fine, but something just feels “off” about it compared to what I’m used to. It feels a lot like an Impreza-style hatchback that got inflated in size and made into an EV, in many ways.

But boy does the steering wheel beat VW‘s, and the whole car feels a lot more familiar to someone coming from other Japanese or Korean cars. And the driver assist features are more intuitive to me trying to use them without any instruction on the freeway. The cabin is dead quiet. The ID.4 cabin is also quiet, but I find the controls a little more quirky. I’d get used to them fine, but it is a compromise. Also a fan of the adjustable regen paddles on the Ioniq 5. In terms of control, I kinda have to give it to Hyundai as the tech is just better integrated and sorted.

In terms of looks, I still think I like the ID.4 better. The Ioniq 5 exterior is… fine. But I think bringing that silver-coated plastic out to the exterior was a mistake, and cheapens the rest of the design, and that the retro-future may not age all that well compared to Tesla’s minimalistic design language. The ID.4 may be a bit boring, but it also feels a bit more comfortable using shapes that would be mostly at home on a Subaru.

I could definitely get used to charging at home though. That is huge. Drive home, plug in for a couple hours to top up, and pretty much always have a mostly full tank ready to go? That will spoil me, big time.
Home charging is by far the biggest benefit for me, no more going on long trips and having to worry about gassing up again. You come home with a low battery, plug in and forget about it. After using it for a while now I could never see going back to ICE, going to a gas station definitely feels like it would be a huge step backwards.
 

Nycturne

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The design is very quirky, it's also very present, so in a couple of years, when retro isn't a thing, it might age poorly. That's the thing with car designs, either it's a big swing, and if it connects, can become classic, or, it's minimal, functional, and it's kind of age resistant. I think the latter can be done while having some character, unique design elements, but it's a tricky balance.
And unfortunately the silver trim won’t age well in a literal sense either. The rental has under 5000mi on it, and the silver trim on the front is starting to show some of the black plastic underneath.

It’s probably still the best tech package in this price range, and the 800V battery platform is a clear advantage as well for the time being, but the cost is it comes in a physical package that is cost cut. The Genesis GV60 might be the better pick if you really want the tech platform and are willing to spend 60k to get it with higher end materials and looks. But good luck finding one in the US.

I’ve still got today and tomorrow with the Ioniq 5, but at least initial impressions suggest I’m not going to put a non-refundable deposit down. And the GV60 is just getting to be a little too expensive for my tastes/budget.

Home charging is so much of a game changer. Today, I have a long-er-ish distance drop off, I'll charge to 100%, make the round trip of ~200 miles, and when I'm home, just plug in. No stop, no hassle, and the trip will cost ~$6 :D

Yeah, fuel costs in the 3c/mi range are very nice, which is about what I’d pay for either of these EVs. I’m still paying around 18c/mi in the Outback after gas prices have come down a bit.

I do wonder what the DCFC network will look like in 10 years. I like to road trip in the PNW, so I will be wanting some ability to make those longer trips consistently, but it seems like we’re still very much in early days, and the US federal funds for building out the charging network is going to pump a lot of money into the market in the next 4 years or so.
 

DT

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Oh yeah, some material choices don't hold up well to sun, weather in general. Our DD/RT was mostly parked outside, I kept it super clean, took good care of the paint, and when we bought/sold it, the paint was mint, the interior mostly looked new - but all the plastic window borders were super washed out, and that was only 3 years and that side of the house is shady about 1/2 the day.

(FWIW, we reconfigured and now both cars go into the garage :D)

I've been seeing the GV60 come up in a lot of online reviews, comparisons, decently quick with some packages, like the design for what it is, but the range is low, the price is high (~$70K how I'd buy it). We're not "Genesis people" if that makes sense[?] It doesn't groove with our personalities and lifestyle vibe. Like I would never own a Mercedes, even though some are stunning designs (hahaha, not factoring in the price ...)

10 years I can't even get my head around (seriously, that means I'll have a 24 year old daughter ... :oops: )

I hope there's some acceleration in the build out. Based on the several major players, federal funding, plans I've seen by big manufacturers like Ford and GM, and players in the power industry (like FPL), I think we'll see major growth in the next 4 years, but it'll probably be that 10 year milestone where it's like gas.

I even just ordered the OEM Tesla CCS adapter, assuming it was worth it even over the next couple of years (I wouldn't be surprised if my next car is CSS, the wife's will be almost for sure).
 

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Home charging is by far the biggest benefit for me, no more going on long trips and having to worry about gassing up again. You come home with a low battery, plug in and forget about it. After using it for a while now I could never see going back to ICE, going to a gas station definitely feels like it would be a huge step backwards.
I don’t like home charging. Work charging is sooooo much better!
 

Nycturne

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Well, some good news on the ID.4 front. Movement is happening on reservations. My lock is now in the "request production" stage, and folks are already getting VINs assigned from the cars VW has been producing in Tennessee since July. So depending on if mine needs to be added to the production queue vs assigned from the lot, good chance I'll see it before Christmas.

I've been seeing the GV60 come up in a lot of online reviews, comparisons, decently quick with some packages, like the design for what it is, but the range is low, the price is high (~$70K how I'd buy it). We're not "Genesis people" if that makes sense[?] It doesn't groove with our personalities and lifestyle vibe. Like I would never own a Mercedes, even though some are stunning designs (hahaha, not factoring in the price ...)

Yeah, I'm not much for that tier of brands (Genesis, Lexus, Audi, etc). I just jump up the trims a little to get creature comforts and am happy.

I hope there's some acceleration in the build out. Based on the several major players, federal funding, plans I've seen by big manufacturers like Ford and GM, and players in the power industry (like FPL), I think we'll see major growth in the next 4 years, but it'll probably be that 10 year milestone where it's like gas.

I even just ordered the OEM Tesla CCS adapter, assuming it was worth it even over the next couple of years (I wouldn't be surprised if my next car is CSS, the wife's will be almost for sure).

I wonder how long Tesla can hold out on CCS at this point before they start phasing out their connector. V3 Superchargers in Europe are CCS only, and the Model 3 uses the Type 2 CCS socket there. They can probably hold on for a while in the US, but I wouldn't be surprised if things change 10 years from now.
 

DT

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I was interested in Ryan's take on the Ioniq 5, he's a good EV review source, and he specifically reviewed the SE/"base" model which was even more interesting (though it's still pricey)

 

DT

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Holy heck, hahaha, the MR EV thread ...

*FRESH DUMB HAS ENTERED THE CHAT*

:ROFLMAO:

Wow, a long time member posted a bunch of crazy political nonsense, got called out, and they actually cancelled their account. :oops:

Looks like there's a queue of anti-EV goons though, the new one (only a member for a few months) looks like fun :ROFLMAO:
 
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