Electric Vehicles: General topics

DT

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Wow, the 2023 Prius looks pretty great:



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Apple fanboy

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In UK news they have announced we will have to pay car tax (road tax) from 2025. Hardly a shock as the government need every penny they can get. Still I'm not paying them a penny in fuel duty so there is that....!
 

turbineseaplane

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Prius looks amazing and I'm glad they are still making it
But...they really needed to use this refresh to finally have a full EV option in the Prius lineup

Even the Prime really needs a bit more battery range (to be worth it for colder climates)
 

diamond.g

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Prius looks amazing and I'm glad they are still making it
But...they really needed to use this refresh to finally have a full EV option in the Prius lineup

Even the Prime really needs a bit more battery range (to be worth it for colder climates)
Toyota still doesn't think full electric is going to be the future.
 

SuperMatt

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Toyota still doesn't think full electric is going to be the future.
That’s not entirely true. While other companies went for plug-in cars, Toyota pursued hydrogen fuel cell vehicles. That turned out to be a bad strategy. So now they lobby against EVs until they can catch up. More background here:

 

diamond.g

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fischersd

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Toyota's also had a hell of a time keeping up on hybrid production. Wait time on the Rav4 hybrid is now 2 years. My local dealer isn't even taking orders for the Rav4 Prime anymore as they can't give an ETA - they only received 4 of the backordered units this year. (last time they were openly taking orders for the Prime, the wait time was 3 years).

They said they could likely get me my purchase price back on my 2021 Rav4 hybrid if I was willing to trade it in on something they have in stock. Heh. No chance. :)
 

Nycturne

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Well, not exactly how I wanted to do it, but I did join the EV club today. Picked up a 2022 ID.4. With how things were going, I was going to be out the tax credit since I wouldn’t be able to get a hold of a 2023 by the end of the year without a lot of luck, so why not go with the cheaper 2022 if I’m not getting the credit? Especially when some of the features this one has got moved to the higher trim on the 2023, and it has the light interior which I prefer, but they kinda ruined it for me in the 2023.

Only added about 20 miles to the thing today, but liking it. Just in time to get back to the office after the recent snow storms. Somewhat hilariously, I’m getting tripped up a bit expecting certain things to be different from the Subaru I’ve been driving, when they are actually the same. I feel like Kryten taking his piloting test.

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Eric

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Well, not exactly how I wanted to do it, but I did join the EV club today. Picked up a 2022 ID.4. With how things were going, I was going to be out the tax credit since I wouldn’t be able to get a hold of a 2023 by the end of the year without a lot of luck, so why not go with the cheaper 2022 if I’m not getting the credit? Especially when some of the features this one has got moved to the higher trim on the 2023, and it has the light interior which I prefer, but they kinda ruined it for me in the 2023.

Only added about 20 miles to the thing today, but liking it. Just in time to get back to the office after the recent snow storms. Somewhat hilariously, I’m getting tripped up a bit expecting certain things to be different from the Subaru I’ve been driving, when they are actually the same. I feel like Kryten taking his piloting test.

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Wow, had no idea this even existed until now. Looks like a pretty decent car for the price with a good amount of range, I would be interested to hear how well the lane keep and automation works. Congrats man!
 

Nycturne

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Wow, had no idea this even existed until now. Looks like a pretty decent car for the price with a good amount of range, I would be interested to hear how well the lane keep and automation works. Congrats man!

There’s two versions of the lane keeping. One that’s meant as collision avoidance, and one that’s part of travel assist. When I test drove the 2021 version in the summer, I turned off the former during the test drive because of false “lane departure” signals it was acting on and applying inputs to the wheel when it shouldn’t. Much like my Outback, it gets a bit confused if the road surface isn’t what it expects, like when you might see paving stones used at larger pedestrian crossings in mixed-use areas that are starting to crop up where I live. The Outback would also nag me with lane departure warnings on roads with lots of sealed cracks. Need to see how well the ID.4 handles those.

Haven’t tried the travel assist feature at all yet. I’m a bit of a luddite when it comes to driver automation. Love adaptive cruise control though. Probably try out travel assist after some time getting used to the vehicle.

Software is the weak point in the ID.4 compared to something like the Ioniq 5. And VW has had some massive teething issues getting OTA updates going. That said, at least for the purpose of: plug in CarPlay, use Siri, drive from A to B, the 2022 fixed the quirks that bugged me about the software the 2021 had. So at least with the drives I’ve done so far, it’s been just as nice as the Outback to drive, only with 100+ extra HP and so much extra torque. Which is really all I wanted. Something like the Outback or Forester in EV form. And it has enough ground clearance for the sort of poorly maintained dirt/gravel roads I’d be using it on from time to time.

The OTA update issues are interesting though. It looks like they used standard 12V starter batteries in the 2021s, and then discovered that the process of the update can be a real problem on those batteries. So they are doing a service campaign to replace all the batteries on 2021s with something better that can handle the long OTA update process (and will probably be better for EV use all up). But sourcing the batteries, getting service centers trained and ready, and shipping them out has apparently been a bit of a pain. The fact that VW is still hammering away at this to get it done so that the 2021s can get all the fixes the 2022/2023 got I think is a positive sign. Things got hard, and instead of just cutting their losses, they seem committed to making it work.

Also like the fact that the AWD comes with the wiring for a 7-pin trailer socket ready to go along with the mount for the socket (2023 includes the socket too, but it’s like a 10$ part off Amazon), and a hitch receiver. Also like that their hitch receiver is bolted to the tow bar, making it a simple process to switch it from a 1.25” to 2” receiver that can be done in a few minutes with a torque wrench. I’ll need to do that before spring so I can use my 2“ bike rack on it.
 

Nycturne

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Have a 7-pin socket ready and waiting to be installed, and a 2" hitch receiver due in on Friday. Just need to see if anyone I know has a torque wrench to install the receiver with. Otherwise gotta see how much a shop charges on 5 minutes of labor, and compare it to the cost of just buying a torque wrench.

Still enjoying the car after the usual seat adjustments trying to figure out how my body wants to sit in this car. Remote access to the climate controls is nice. The benefits of having a remote start system in winter to turn on cabin heat and defrost without the noise. Takes up to a minute for the car to respond, so have to take that into account.
 

Nycturne

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One last update while I'm still in the honeymoon phase with this car:

Gave travel assist a try on the way to work this morning because traffic was lighter than usual and I'm more used to how the car behaves. Worked better than I expected. Managed to stick to the center of the lanes quite well, even in areas that would trigger the lane departure warning on Subaru's Eyesight with heavy crack repair and morning glare. It would sometimes get a little tripped up for a brief moment, but corrected itself in well under a second, before it required my intervention or deviated much from the lane center.

Still not at the point where I'd trust the version of lane keeping meant to avoid collisions around pedestrians yet, but still pleased it isn't hot garbage.

Downside: The AWD Pro S comes with a windscreen defroster which saved my butt this morning by melting the frost and letting me drive off in less than 30 seconds. It doesn't include defrosters for the rear side mirrors though. Why? Defrosting those is power efficient and can be done with a small heating element behind the mirror. I do miss that from my Subaru.
 

Eric

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One last update while I'm still in the honeymoon phase with this car:

Gave travel assist a try on the way to work this morning because traffic was lighter than usual and I'm more used to how the car behaves. Worked better than I expected. Managed to stick to the center of the lanes quite well, even in areas that would trigger the lane departure warning on Subaru's Eyesight with heavy crack repair and morning glare. It would sometimes get a little tripped up for a brief moment, but corrected itself in well under a second, before it required my intervention or deviated much from the lane center.

Still not at the point where I'd trust the version of lane keeping meant to avoid collisions around pedestrians yet, but still pleased it isn't hot garbage.

Downside: The AWD Pro S comes with a windscreen defroster which saved my butt this morning by melting the frost and letting me drive off in less than 30 seconds. It doesn't include defrosters for the rear side mirrors though. Why? Defrosting those is power efficient and can be done with a small heating element behind the mirror. I do miss that from my Subaru.
Good to know, I know with my BMW the best part of that system was when it was in stop and go traffic as you could pretty much let the car go when it was crawling like that. Even with my Tesla, which reads lines perfectly 100% of the time it seems, when I get that morning glare and hard to see lines I just disengage the system entirely just to be safe. In fact no matter how much I trust a system, even with the steering wheel hack so I never have to touch it, I find myself turning it all of in situations I find even mildly questionable. Most of this is common sense to me.
 

Nycturne

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Good to know, I know with my BMW the best part of that system was when it was in stop and go traffic as you could pretty much let the car go when it was crawling like that. Even with my Tesla, which reads lines perfectly 100% of the time it seems, when I get that morning glare and hard to see lines I just disengage the system entirely just to be safe. In fact no matter how much I trust a system, even with the steering wheel hack so I never have to touch it, I find myself turning it all of in situations I find even mildly questionable. Most of this is common sense to me.

Yeah, the adaptive cruise control on the Subaru was pretty good for that, and the ID.4 is a bit better with less aggressive acceleration/braking. But this is the first car that I've owned that had the ability to automatically lane center that actually works. The Subaru had it, but it rarely identified the lines well enough to engage. So I'm partly trying to figure out how well it works when there's fewer people on the road.

There's another lane keep feature for surface streets, but that I have seen get confused in my test drive of the 2021, so I leave it off.
 

Eric

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Yeah, the adaptive cruise control on the Subaru was pretty good for that, and the ID.4 is a bit better with less aggressive acceleration/braking. But this is the first car that I've owned that had the ability to automatically lane center that actually works. The Subaru had it, but it rarely identified the lines well enough to engage. So I'm partly trying to figure out how well it works when there's fewer people on the road.

There's another lane keep feature for surface streets, but that I have seen get confused in my test drive of the 2021, so I leave it off.
Does it center? That's the biggest difference between the Tesla and my older BMW which was basically like bumper bowling and constantly drifting within the lane, it's more safety departure than anything.
 

cloudflare420

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It doesn't include defrosters for the rear side mirrors though. Why? Defrosting those is power efficient and can be done with a small heating element behind the mirror. I do miss that from my Subaru.

Look at the side mirror controls. You have to turn the knob to the bottom right to use the mirror defrosters. All VAG cars do this.

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Nycturne

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Look at the side mirror controls. You have to turn the knob to the bottom right to use the mirror defrosters. All VAG cars do this.

Hah, I’ll have to look at this again. I even looked in the manual which made no mention of it.

EDIT: Manual doesn’t refer to defrost with the mirrors, just calling them heaters. Explains why search was dry.
 
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Apple fanboy

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Have a 7-pin socket ready and waiting to be installed, and a 2" hitch receiver due in on Friday. Just need to see if anyone I know has a torque wrench to install the receiver with. Otherwise gotta see how much a shop charges on 5 minutes of labor, and compare it to the cost of just buying a torque wrench.

Still enjoying the car after the usual seat adjustments trying to figure out how my body wants to sit in this car. Remote access to the climate controls is nice. The benefits of having a remote start system in winter to turn on cabin heat and defrost without the noise. Takes up to a minute for the car to respond, so have to take that into account.
I just tell mine what time I’m leaving and it defrosts it for then. Very convenient. Especially as we are having a server winter.
 
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