Fighting in Israel

SuperMatt

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Why did Israel raid a mosque during Ramadan? Now we have rockets fired from Gaza and Israeli airstrikes.

Israel keeps annexing territory and kicking Palestinians out of their homes, which adds to the conflict.

I think Netanyahu ordered this to happen because he cannot stand to lose power. His belligerent ways are most popular when Israel is at conflict. He can then blame the Palestinians for everything.

 

SuperMatt

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This is how brazen the settlers are about stealing Palestinian’s homes:


How can a nation created as a home for those fleeing persecution turn into a nation that cruelly persecutes others?
 

Chew Toy McCoy

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How can a nation created as a home for those fleeing persecution turn into a nation that cruelly persecutes others?

Because abusing the “anti-Semite!” defense card has reached the level of cartoonish absurdity. You know the evicted Palestines would be perfectly fine with anybody else tossing them out, just not Jews. That's the real reason they are mad.
 

Alli

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Bibi is as big a crook as they come. It's no wonder he and the former guy got on so well. Unfortunately, they both have their followers who will do anything they want.

It doesn't help that the Republicans have tried so hard to get the right to buy into helping Israel.
 

Chew Toy McCoy

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Honestly, Israel has become an embarrassment to Jews in the diaspora. I am ashamed.

I know I keep saying this, but not every Jew on the planet is Israeli and not every Israeli is a member of the Israeli government, but you wouldn’t know that from the way the Israeli government spreads their propaganda and there’s no shortage of their global cheerleaders. The Israeli government is the first and longest running perpetrator of cancel culture.

Honestly the world would be a better place if that area of land fell victim to a massive sink hole.
 

Chew Toy McCoy

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I don’t want to downplay what’s going on over there, but it seems like a militarized version of gentrification. If poor people were an ethnic group you could similarly apply “ethnic cleansing” to what I see going on all around me, bulldozing affordable or rent controlled dwellings and replacing them with dwellings that can fit even more people and charging a premium. A major difference (among many) is people on either side of the equation here aren’t firing bullets, rocks, and missiles at each other over it. I guess throwing God in the equation just brings out the best in people.
 

JayMysteri0

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https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1392596663806611462/

The reason I usually avoid discussions about this, is that I don't understand the logic for defense of Israel's actions.

I keep hearing & reading about Hamas' attacks which are horrible, and that Israel HAS to defend & retaliate.

But I always keep asking the same question that gets glossed over. Why? What made Hamas decide to attack NOW?

You mean stealing homes and attack people at a place of worship DURING their worship over shit YOU did, isn't something to be rightfully pissed off about?

If you can trace the origin of all of this to the actions of Israel, how is it "Poor Israel"?

That Onion piece perfectly sums it up for me.
 
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Honestly, Israel has become an embarrassment to Jews in the diaspora. I am ashamed.
The irony is that NYC is the largest Jewish city after Tel Aviv. Some young liberals I know, who happen to be Jewish, sheepishly express their discomfort about the situation when asked about this privately.

The other day on reddit, somebody called Hamas "sub-human garbage". When I pointed out that maybe that verbiage is "unfortunate", this is the explanation I got: "The Nazis were also sub-human garbage. Then a lot of them repented. And they weren't anymore." Then I looked at the person's post history and they were claiming that there were, "card-carrying antifa agitators at the Capitol" and I know I needed no more interaction with them.

I don’t want to downplay what’s going on over there, but it seems like a militarized version of gentrification. If poor people were an ethnic group you could similarly apply “ethnic cleansing” to what I see going on all around me, bulldozing affordable or rent controlled dwellings and replacing them with dwellings that can fit even more people and charging a premium. A major difference (among many) is people on either side of the equation here aren’t firing bullets, rocks, and missiles at each other over it. I guess throwing God in the equation just brings out the best in people.
I was thinking about this in on my walk this morning in the gentrified part of my "rough, infested" city. I think from many aspects, your analogy is quite good.
 
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https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1392596663806611462/

The reason I usually avoid discussions about this, is that I don't understand the logic for defense of Israel's actions.

I keep hearing & reading about Hamas' attacks which are horrible, and that Israel HAS to defend & retaliate.

But I always keep asking the same question that gets glossed over. Why? What made Hamas decide to attack NOW?

You mean stealing homes and attack people at a place of worship DURING their worship over shit YOU did, isn't something to be rightfully pissed off about?

If you can trace the origin of all of this to the actions of Israel, how is it "Poor Israel"?

That Onion piece perfectly sums it up for me.
I think the best and simplest analysis of the present conflict is that the only people benefiting are the extremists. Hamas on one end and Netanyahu on the other who should have been in jail by now. People, especially Palestinians in between are getting screwed. I read a good editorial by Nicholas Kristof from NYT on this, in which he wrote, the USA may not agree with either side, but funds one and thus should/could have some control over how those funds are used and facilitate actions that promote peace and human rights. Of course, in reality it's like a rebate that just keeps the military-industrial complex thriving.
 

Alli

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I don’t want to downplay what’s going on over there, but it seems like a militarized version of gentrification.
That is, perhaps, the best analogy of the situation I've ever seen. Kudos.
The irony is that NYC is the largest Jewish city after Tel Aviv. Some young liberals I know, who happen to be Jewish, sheepishly express their discomfort about the situation when asked about this privately.
I'm not young so I'm not sheepish about it at all. I am horrified. Every year at the end of the Passover ritual we say "next year in Jerusalem." But none of us mean it. Hell, my cousins left Israel for the comforts of the US and although they all served their time in the Israeli army, none of them is going back. (Other than brief visits.) Israel is a concept. Perhaps it's time to accept it as a concept and physically locate it elsewhere. Crown Heights would work.
 

Scepticalscribe

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Years ago, I read a fascinating profile of Benjamin Netanyahu written by David Remnick (one of my Swedish colleagues gave it to me, when we served together with the EU in the Caucasus).

Actually, earlier, Remnick himself has written a superb book on the Gorbachev years in the USSR/Russia ("Lenin's Tomb" - I can't recommend it highly enough).

Anyway, the profile of Bibi suggested that he - his character - had been excessively moulded by his father - a truly unsettling individual - and seems to have spent much of his life attempting to live up to the impossible standards set by the legend of his late brother, the hero, (poet, soldier, scholar) Yoni Netanyahu.
 
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The Israeli military abruptly announced after midnight on Friday that its ground forces had begun “attacking in the Gaza Strip,” saying it on Twitter, in text messages to journalists, and in on-the-record confirmations by an English-speaking army spokesman.

Several international news organizations, including The New York Times, immediately alerted readers worldwide that a Gaza incursion or invasion was underway, a major escalation of Israeli-Palestinian hostilities.

Within hours, those reports were all corrected: No invasion had taken place. Rather, ground troops had opened fire at targets in Gaza from inside Israeli territory, while fighters and drones were continuing to attack from the air. A top military spokesman took responsibility, blaming the fog of war.

But by Friday evening, several leading Israeli news outlets were reporting that the incorrect announcement was no accident, but had actually been part of an elaborate deception. The intent, the media reports said, was to dupe Hamas fighters into thinking that an invasion had begun and to respond in ways that would expose far greater numbers of them to what was being called a devastatingly lethal Israeli attack.

 

Edd

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That is, perhaps, the best analogy of the situation I've ever seen. Kudos.

I'm not young so I'm not sheepish about it at all. I am horrified. Every year at the end of the Passover ritual we say "next year in Jerusalem." But none of us mean it. Hell, my cousins left Israel for the comforts of the US and although they all served their time in the Israeli army, none of them is going back. (Other than brief visits.) Israel is a concept. Perhaps it's time to accept it as a concept and physically locate it elsewhere. Crown Heights would work.
I’m sure you remember this.


When she said that I thought “Yup, maybe” and she took so much shit for it. My overall grasp of the complexities of the conflict is weak and I associate with literally zero Jewish people to my knowledge so it’s not a topic that comes up in conversation for me.
 

SuperMatt

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Imagine if some Mexican terrorists launched rockets into Texas and America responded by leveling high-rise buildings in Mexico City. This is unconscionable. I was opposed to the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, but at least America tried to abide by the LOAC. (Law of Armed Conflict) Targeting civilian buildings with the excuse that Hamas is hiding there is just wrong. And despite destroying these buildings, the rockets keep coming. The point is to make Palestinians suffer, not to stop the rockets directly. Counter-terrorist operations would focus on infiltrating their networks and stopping them. Bombing civilians does nothing except breed more terrorists.

 
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User.45

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I’m sure you remember this.


When she said that I thought “Yup, maybe” and she took so much shit for it. My overall grasp of the complexities of the conflict is weak and I associate with literally zero Jewish people to my knowledge so it’s not a topic that comes up in conversation for me.
That seems like a very ignorant statement by Thomas though. The jewish diaspora is very complex as there are Ashkenazi, Beta, Mizrahi, Sephardic jews, or my favorites, the Lembas, South Africa's lost tribe of Israel. Mizrahis never left the Middle East and they actually constitute the majority of ethnic group in Israel. So where would they "go home"?:)
 
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