RIP Former SOS Colin Powell has died of COVID-related illness.

GermanSuplex

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Say what you want, he was a man of integrity and the same things that made him a hero in the Republican Party made him a pariah. A giant for African Americans in U.S. politics.

Obama is arguably the first president of color only because Powell chose not to run in the 90’s.

He died of COVID complications. And he was vaccinated.

 

JamesMike

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Having know the man in the military and later during civilian life he was one of the most honorable persons I have known. Although not always agreeing with him, I always respected him for the way he lead his life. He was a Republican for a long time, but changed to an Independent and supported the of election President Obama and took a lot of flack for doing that. One of his hobbies was working on his Volvo, when ask about this, he told people it kept him grounded. General rest in peace.
 

Scepticalscribe

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I've edited the thread title to include the "RIP" prefix.

Personally, I always liked and respected Colin Powell, (but deplored his actions on Iraq as Secretary of State) and thought him a man of intelligence, integrity, courage and dignity, and a superlative role model for African Americans and for people of colour.
 
D

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Mixed feelings.

Going in front of the U.N. Security Council and flat out lying about WMD's is -- inexcusable.

Depending upon how one cares to slice the data up, anywhere from 1/3 to 3/4 of a million deaths came from that unbelievable travesty.

To me -- it's a war crime to support a lie as he did and lead to that level of human loss.
Simply not something I can ever look beyond, no matter how redeeming his other qualities may have been.
 
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Scepticalscribe

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My big worry is that in death, the man will be used like he was in life.

His dying from complications from Covid, even after being vaccinated, will bring out the crayon sniffing FB vaccine researchers.

He deserves better than to be dragged into that stupidity.

And what you're not seeing is "he had a blood cancer that compromised his immune system" when they talk about COVID, all you see is he was "fully vaccinated", it's misleading to say the least.
But, one can contract Covid, become ill from Covid, have to be admitted to ICU with Covid, and yes, die from Covid, even if vaccinated.

Vaccination hugely reduces your chances of any of the above happening, - and, if you do have the misfortune to contract Covid, there is a significant chance that your experience of illness as a result will be a lot less severe, - but vaccination does not, and cannot, completely prevent one from contracting the condition, or render one completely immune from contracting the condition.

Perhaps a lot of it is context: From this side of The Pond, I didn't see this as an attempt to cast doubt on the efficacy of vaccines, rather, it reads to me as simple reportage: He was fully vaccinated, yet still contracted it.

It wouldn't surprise me to learn that this was something such as - or akin to - pneumonia - which is what finally did for my mother; a compromised immune system, when someone is both elderly and already ill, will mean that it is difficult to fight off respiratory conditions of that nature.
 

Eric

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But, one can contract Covid, become ill from Covid, have to be admitted to ICU with Covid, and yes, die from Covid, even if vaccinated.

Vaccination hugely reduces your chances of any of the above happening, - and, if you do have the misfortune to contract Covid, there is a significant chance that your experience of illness as a result will be a lot less severe, - but vaccination does not, and cannot, completely prevent one from contracting the condition, or render one completely immune from contracting the condition.

Perhaps a lot of it is context: From this side of The Pond, I didn't see this as an attempt to cast doubt on the efficacy of vaccines, rather, it reads to me as simple reportage: He was fully vaccinated, yet still contracted it.

It wouldn't surprise me to learn that this was something such as - or akin to - pneumonia - which is what finally did for my mother; a compromised immune system, when someone is both elderly and already ill, will mean that it is difficult to fight off respiratory conditions of that nature.

In this case:
Powell had multiple myeloma, a cancer of plasma cells that suppresses the body's immune response, as well as Parkinson's, Peggy Cifrino, Powell's longtime chief of staff, confirmed to CNN. Even if fully vaccinated against Covid-19, those who are immunocompromised are at greater risk from the virus.

The deliberate omission of this is disingenuous to say the least, it's also providing fodder for right wing anti-vaxxers everywhere. In the time of COVID this is irresponsible, with the astoundingly low count of actual deaths from COVID in those who are fully vaccinated, qualifiers are necessary.
 

Scepticalscribe

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In this case:


The deliberate omission of this is disingenuous to say the least, it's also providing fodder for right wing anti-vaxxers everywhere. In the time of COVID this is irresponsible, with the astoundingly low count of actual deaths from COVID in those who are fully vaccinated, qualifiers are necessary.

In the context of the US, yes, I agree with you that this could be seen as disingenuous, because discussion of this topic is considered to be contentious.

In that context, the more explicit the explanation and the more detail that can be offered as to what other conditions Mr Powell also suffered from, clearly, the better.

However, reputable sources in Europe (BBC, Guardian, DW - Deutsche Welle, - to name but three) all simply refer to how Colin Powell died from what they described as "Covid complications", a form of words that nobody - this side of The Pond - would take to be remotely controversial or disingenuous, but a mere statement of (possibly incomplete) fact.

Certainly, I cannot conceive how anyone here would construe from that an argument against vaccination.
 

Thomas Veil

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I admired Colin Powell for having the guts to leave the Republican Party and say why. I'm sure he was also a great military man.

Unfortunately his legacy will always be tarnished by that one WMD presentation that he did at the UN. Hopefully he will be remembered for more than just that.
 

JayMysteri0

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In the context of the US, yes, I agree with you that this could be seen as disingenuous, because discussion of this topic is considered to be contentious.

In that context, the more explicit the explanation and the more detail that can be offered as to what other conditions Mr Powell also suffered from, clearly, the better.

However, reputable sources in Europe (BBC, Guardian, DW - Deutsche Welle, - to name but three) all simply refer to how Colin Powell died from what they described as "Covid complications", a form of words that nobody - this side of The Pond - would take to be remotely controversial or disingenuous, but a mere statement of (possibly incomplete) fact.

Certainly, I cannot conceive how anyone here would construe from that an argument against vaccination.

To clarify though from my post you quoted, what I was concerned with was in the context of the US.
My big worry is that in death, the man will be used like he was in life.

His dying from complications from Covid, even after being vaccinated, will bring out the crayon sniffing FB vaccine researchers.

He deserves better than to be dragged into that stupidity.

After the Bush Administration, some conservatives / republicans, I fear that Powell will be used by some others as part of their anti vax crusade with zero concern for the man that was. Mr. Powell always seemed to mean well, but some of those he supported didn't mean well.
 

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I had thought Powell was more or less a decent guy – until I read what Eric Loomis had to say about his legacy. I mean, the thing with Iraq was pretty weak sauce, but I had not been aware of his actions regarding the My Lai incident. In the end, he looks quite cowardly. The best thing he ever did, really, was to not say much.
 

GermanSuplex

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Yeah, the Fox freaks are playing both ends - on one hands, it’s proof the vaccine “didn’t work”. On the other, they’re saying COVID is no big deal, he died of cancer, and that’s that. There’s no winning with this crowd.
 

Eric

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Yeah, the Fox freaks are playing both ends - on one hands, it’s proof the vaccine “didn’t work”. On the other, they’re saying COVID is no big deal, he died of cancer, and that’s that. There’s no winning with this crowd.
And, ironically enough, every one of them had to get a vaccine to keep their job spewing anti-vaxx bullshit to their millions of viewers. You just can't make this stuff up.
 

ronntaylor

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Many people forget Colin Powell didn't just lie about WMD & Iraq in 2003, he also lied on the same subject during the Gulf War in 1991. The US bombed a baby milk factory; Powell claimed it made biological weapons; the CIA later confirmed it didn't make BW.


I had thought Powell was more or less a decent guy – until I read what Eric Loomis had to say about his legacy. I mean, the thing with Iraq was pretty weak sauce, but I had not been aware of his actions regarding the My Lai incident. In the end, he looks quite cowardly. The best thing he ever did, really, was to not say much.
I was going to add the above. That's why my stepdad hated him. He thought he was a willful puppet for the GOP.

And he was a strong proponent for keeping in place the prohibition of open service by Gay miliary
members. He was incensed when it was compared to the segregation of Black troops decades earlier.
 

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And yet people will still vote for that piece of 💩. And many are proud that they did in the past.

Really, Hillary would have been worse than this disgusting human being? Trump’s election was the white racist backlash to 8 years of a black president. Shame on all those who voted for him. They knew this was his way, and they LIKED it.
 
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