Garland appointing special counsel

[bwinter88]

They do.

But it still fairly far down the list of concerns which are dominated by inflation, the economy, crime etc. I think it was Gallup that had it at 4% of people's top concerns.

Totally false, Herdfan. The numbers say the exact opposite of what you claim. The Jan 6th insurrection isn't even listed as a specific line item in that gallup poll. The only relevant options are "lack of unity in the country" and "poor leadership" and those are third and fourth behind inflation and the economy in general. That's hardly "way down" on the list. It's essentially second only to the economy. Lack of unity scores the same as crime, and well higher when you combine it with concerns about governmental leaders.

And lest you try to argue their connection to the January 6th insurrection or that they're talking about Biden, "Lack of unity in the country" scored the highest in seven decades directly after January 6th, while concern about governmental leaders jumped to 29%. (That's been cut in half to 14% since Biden was elected).

Maybe you just saw a small number and assumed what you wanted to, but I think it's fair to admit that was a pretty torturous reading of the poll on your part. Now that this blind spot has been pointed out to you, will you adjust your view?

 

[shadow puppet]

To anyone who cares, I have never said California is perfect. No state is.

L.A. is. currently going through a massive homeless problem and we have yet to find a permanent solution. Being a large, diverse metropolitan area, we have our problems. Just like any other large city. But what I have experienced during my long time living here, is the way neighbors come together or in some cases, also our local law enforcement. So for @Herdfan to say in a blanket statement a California store can be robbed and nothing is ever done, is simply not true.

Before I exit and stop derailing this thread (apologies to all), I will say this. @Herdfan I give you huge credit for sticking around this forum knowing you are in the minority. You give the rest of us a voice from a different viewpoint. I don't see that as a bad thing and give you kudos for doing so. I don't think I could do the same.

But please, don't tell me I don't know what I know about a place I've lived for most of my life. Please at least extend me that small bit of respect.

Thank you.

 

[Herdfan]

Okaaaay. Sure. You've read posts. I have lived from Northern California to Venice Beach. But even I would never make such a blanket statement. And I've lived it. In the actual state. For 48 years.

You are participating in a thread where a couple of posters outright call anyone who is at least 2σ left of center a conservative fuck or a racist. So, sorry that won't fly.

As to you specifically being dishonest, can't think of one but there are several posters who refuse to admit there are issues in some of these cities. It is all "conservative Foxnews BS". And that's fine if they truly believe it, but they shouldn't be surprised one day when they wake up and are living in a shithole of their own making.

But do you come in a defend something you know to be true, or simply stay out for fear of some other poster's wrath?

Before I exit and stop derailing this thread (apologies to all), I will say this. @Herdfan I give you huge credit for sticking around this forum knowing you are in the minority. You give the rest of us a voice from a different viewpoint. I don't see that as a bad thing and give you kudos for doing so. I don't think I could do the same.

Thank you!

 

[mac_in_tosh]

As to you specifically being dishonest, can't think of one but there are several posters who refuse to admit there are issues in some of these cities. It is all "conservative Foxnews BS". And that's fine if they truly believe it, but they shouldn't be surprised one day when they wake up and are living in a shithole of their own making.

The reason many here might dismiss a lot of these issues as Fox News BS is because they are not depicted honestly. Take crime for instance. GOP controlled states rank among the highest for crime rate, about equal to Democratic controlled states. Same goes for the idea that Democrats are bad for the economy. We all know about the debt crisis and recession during George W's administration and Trump left with the economy in disarray, ending his administration with 3 million fewer jobs than when he was inaugurated.

Fox News and the GOP just use these issues to scare people and engage in culture wars, but what do they actually propose to do about them? Now that they have won control of the House, will the GOP introduce legislation to address the issues they campaigned about? No, their first priority will be to hold hearings on Hunter Biden.

 

[Pumbaa]

You are participating in a thread where a couple of posters outright call anyone who is at least 2σ left of center a conservative fuck or a racist. So, sorry that won't fly.

Well, to be fair, “at least 2σ left of center” is pretty extreme.

I must have missed those posts, though. Are you sure you’re not misrepresenting them?

 

[bwinter88]

You are participating in a thread where a couple of posters outright call anyone who is at least 2σ left of center a conservative fuck or a racist. So, sorry that won't fly.

As to you specifically being dishonest, can't think of one but there are several posters who refuse to admit there are issues in some of these cities. It is all "conservative Foxnews BS". And that's fine if they truly believe it, but they shouldn't be surprised one day when they wake up and are living in a shithole of their own making.

But do you come in a defend something you know to be true, or simply stay out for fear of some other poster's wrath?

That entire response was predicated on just a couple unnamed people and a good "one day just you wait and see" finger-wag.

If you want to talk about living in a shithole of your own making, read "Dying From Whiteness," based on research conducted in the 2010s about the mortality rates in Missouri, Tennassee and Kansas because of right-wing policies, and how people there insist on dying rather than betraying their political views.

Point is, this "shithole" talk is so wildly silly. I live in LA, it's not as bad as Fox News makes it out to be. It just isn't. I would think by now anyone with two brain cells to rub together would be onto their game of drumming up non-stories to feed their outrage machine. You can drum up stories about people voting for bad policies against their own interests literally everywhere.

 

[mac_in_tosh]

Point is, this "shithole" talk is so wildly silly. I live in LA, it's not as bad as Fox News makes it out to be. It just isn't. I would think by now anyone with two brain cells to rub together would be onto their game of drumming up non-stories to feed their outrage machine.

Case in point to show how utterly ridiculous Fox New is, from Huffpost:

Fox News’ Raymond Arroyo accused the White House of jumping the gun on Christmas because it received its Christmas tree on the same day that President Joe Biden pardoned two turkeys for Thanksgiving.

The trouble was, the conservative network earlier in the day lit its own “All-American Christmas Tree” outside its HQ in New York. Fox’s tree last year burned down in an arson attack.

On Monday, Arroyo groused to prime-time personality Laura Ingraham: “The turkey pardon had barely happened, Laura, it was barely finished when Jill Biden went out to receive the White House Christmas tree. At this rate, New Year’s Eve could be coming tonight at midnight.”

If you can stomach it, here is the Fox video: Biden White House Jumps the Gun on Christmas

 

[SuperMatt]

You are participating in a thread where a couple of posters outright call anyone who is at least 2σ left of center a conservative fuck or a racist. So, sorry that won't fly.

The biggest criticisms of your posts in this thread are not the conservative viewpoints. They are false or misleading statements, presented as facts, then walked away from when the truth is written instead. Then the subject is changed and you claim you’re only being criticized for being conservative.

If you don’t want to talk about Jan 6, fine. But instead you say nobody cares, and when it’s pointed out to you that, yes, most people do care… you double down. From there, it becomes all about you trying to salvage some shred of validity from a statement that never should have been made. So the discussion cannot move forward.

If you want to have an actual discussion about bail reform, let’s start a thread and discuss it. But tossing out false claims about the effectiveness of cash bail as if they are facts, in a thread about something else, indicates you don’t want that claim to be challenged, nor that topic to be discussed in detail.

My suggestions for a good discussion: Be honest. Be accurate. If you post something that turns out to be false, even if unintentionally, accept it and make an argument based on something true.

 

[ronntaylor]

My suggestions for a good discussion: Be honest. Be accurate. If you post something that turns out to be false, even if unintentionally, accept it and make an argument based on something true.

I wouldn't hold my breath. He takes a dump on threads on a regular basis to derail them. And as you pointed out, when shown to be wrong/lying he then disappears and/or becomes Urkel: "Did I do that!?"

 

[SuperMatt]

I wouldn't hold my breath. He takes a dump on threads on a regular basis to derail them. And as you pointed out, when shown to be wrong/lying he then disappears and/or becomes Urkel: "Did I do that!?"

I’m gonna get WAY off topic here…

Spoiler

 

[Herdfan]

Totally false, Herdfan. The numbers say the exact opposite of what you claim. The Jan 6th insurrection isn't even listed as a specific line item in that gallup poll. The only relevant options are "lack of unity in the country" and "poor leadership" and those are third and fourth behind inflation and the economy in general. That's hardly "way down" on the list. It's essentially second only to the economy. Lack of unity scores the same as crime, and well higher when you combine it with concerns about governmental leaders.

Not totally false.

Here is the poll from Gallup: https://news.gallup.com/poll/1675/most-important-problem.aspx

Now if you will go down to Non-Economic Problems and look at the the line for Elections/Election Reform/Democracy and you will see it is most important to 4% of the people surveyed. Now you can call it a "pretty torturous reading", but since the Dems and the Media have for almost 2 years called (called hell, bashed us over head with it) Jan 6 a threat to our democracy, I don't think it is really that tortured.

Well, to be fair, “at least 2σ left of center” is pretty extreme.

Ok, maybe 1σ. Still trying to figure out why we let the outer 15%'s dictate policy.

The biggest criticisms of your posts in this thread are not the conservative viewpoints. They are false or misleading statements, presented as facts, then walked away from when the truth is written instead. Then the subject is changed and you claim you’re only being criticized for being conservative.

If you don’t want to talk about Jan 6, fine. But instead you say nobody cares, and when it’s pointed out to you that, yes, most people do care… you double down. From there, it becomes all about you trying to salvage some shred of validity from a statement that never should have been made. So the discussion cannot move forward.

People may care. I care about you and everyone else on here. But it is not my top concern. My point is the people have many other things they care about more. Right now it is how to pay for stuff in an economy with 8% inflation. Jan 6 becomes kind of irrelevant when you can't feed your family.

Also, Jan 6th is over and done. Here is a Pew poll on topics most important to voters this past election. While Jan 6 is not specifically mentioned, Investigations into Trump and his Administration are very important to only 30% of voters. And unlike the Gallup poll, multiple responses were allowed so respondents didn't have to pick something over something else.

Key facts about U.S. voter priorities ahead of the 2022 midterm elections

As Election Day approaches, here’s a look at voters’ issue priorities, based mainly on a Pew Research Center survey conducted Oct. 10-16.

www.pewresearch.org

If you want to have an actual discussion about bail reform, let’s start a thread and discuss it. But tossing out false claims about the effectiveness of cash bail as if they are facts, in a thread about something else, indicates you don’t want that claim to be challenged, nor that topic to be discussed in detail.

Point is, this "shithole" talk is so wildly silly. I live in LA, it's not as bad as Fox News makes it out to be. It just isn't. I would think by now anyone with two brain cells to rub together would be onto their game of drumming up non-stories to feed their outrage machine. You can drum up stories about people voting for bad policies against their own interests literally everywhere.

All I can do is read the papers. If crime is not that big of problem, why did SF recall their DA and LA tried do so. Why was the LA mayoral race way closer than it should have been. At some point you can no longer blame it on a bunch of right-wingers as there aren't enough to recall a DA or almost win a mayoral race in a city that is 70% Democratic.

My suggestions for a good discussion: Be honest. Be accurate. If you post something that turns out to be false, even if unintentionally, accept it and make an argument based on something true.

Deal. But you have to stop calling every conservative a racist fuck.

 

[bwinter88]

Not totally false.

Yes, totally false. The Jan. 6th insurrection is not listed, at all. So you cannot say it's "way down on the list" when it's not on the list. Heck, crime is listed at 4 percent too. I thought you said it was "way down on the list" below crime?

The 4% is totally meaningless on its own. The poll gives you zero information about people's order of importance. It may very well be 96% of people's second-highest concern. The way to read this poll, if you're looking for people's top concerns, is to order them from largest to smallest. And judging by what spiked when the poll was taken after January 6th, we can see people's concerns about it easily represent in the top three.

but since the Dems and the Media have for almost 2 years called (called hell, bashed us over head with it) Jan 6 a threat to our democracy, I don't think it is really that tortured.

Those pesky Dems, calling a spade a spade. I don't see what that has to do with your ability to read a poll.

Poll: Majority of NJ voters see Jan 6th as a threat to democracy

Poll: Half of Iowa voters see Jan 6th as a threat to democracy

Poll: Overwhelming majority of US voters see Jan 6th as a threat to democracy

Looking forward to your tortured readings of those too.

 

[shadow puppet]

Not totally false.

Here is the poll from Gallup: https://news.gallup.com/poll/1675/most-important-problem.aspx

I stopped believing in polls after FiveThirtyEight predicted a Hillary Clinton win in 2016.
The recent 2022 midterm red wave polls that didn't happen, only confirmed this.

 

[bwinter88]

I stopped believing in polls after FiveThirtyEight predicted a Hillary Clinton win in 2016.
The recent 2022 midterm red wave polls that didn't happen, only confirmed this.

A poll trying to predict people's behaviors is vastly different than a poll on people's personal opinions.

 

[shadow puppet]

A poll trying to predict people's behaviors is vastly different than a poll on people's personal opinions.

Agree, but I still don't buy into them. Much like I don't judge my viewing choices by movie/television reviewers.
To each their own I guess.

 

[SuperMatt]

Deal. But you have to stop calling every conservative a racist fuck.

I see you know how to use the forum’s quote feature. Feel free to quote me as proof of that accusation.

 

[Pumbaa]

Ok, maybe 1σ.

Still doesn’t make any sense. Why would the people “at least 1σ left of center” be called conservative fucks? Newspeak?

Still trying to figure out why we let the outer 15%'s dictate policy.

Same here. Hopefully the appointed special counsel will present a solid case and prosecute the extremists responsible for the attempted coup.

 

[SuperMatt]

All I can do is read the papers. If crime is not that big of problem, why did SF recall their DA and LA tried do so. Why was the LA mayoral race way closer than it should have been. At some point you can no longer blame it on a bunch of right-wingers as there aren't enough to recall a DA or almost win a mayoral race in a city that is 70% Democratic.

Why do you continue to insert topics that are worthy of their own threads into this one? I could get into a discussion of this, including detailed data on how/why, but it would require a complete takeover of this thread, and I’m not going to.

So, continuing THIS thread: One thing in your post that relates to this thread: the poll you inserted a screenshot of said 70% of Republicans and 80% of Democrats said “The future of Democracy in this country” is a “very important” concern. This was the #2 issue behind the economy. This is directly related to what happened on Jan 6. So, you keep insisting that it’s not a top issue, then post a poll showing it’s the 2nd biggest issue among voters of both parties.

 

[SuperMatt]

The DOJ requested an interview with Mike Pence regarding Jan 6.

The Justice Department is seeking to question former Vice President Mike Pence as a witness in connection with its criminal investigation into former President Donald J. Trump’s efforts to stay in power after he lost the 2020 election, according to two people familiar with the matter.

Mr. Pence, according to people familiar with his thinking, is open to considering the request, recognizing that the Justice Department’s criminal investigation is different from the inquiry by the House Jan. 6 committee, whose overtures he has flatly rejected.

Complicating the situation is whether Mr. Trump would try to invoke executive privilege to stop him or limit his testimony, a step that he has taken with limited success so far with other former officials.

Mr. Pence was present for some of the critical moments in which Mr. Trump and his allies schemed to keep him in office and block the congressional certification of Joseph R. Biden Jr.’s victory. An agreement for him to cooperate would be the latest remarkable twist in an investigation that is already fraught with legal and political consequences, involving a former president who is now a declared candidate to return to the White House — and whose potential rivals for the 2024 Republican nomination include Mr. Pence.

Justice Dept. Seeking to Question Pence in Jan. 6 Investigation

Prosecutors want to speak with the former vice president as a witness to former President Donald Trump’s efforts to remain in power, and he is said to be considering how to respond.

www.nytimes.com

 

[fooferdoggie]

The DOJ requested an interview with Mike Pence regarding Jan 6.

talk to his fly it would be better.