Grumpy Greta: blah blah blah

dogslobber

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And, she is 18: she is one of the people that will have to live with the mess we are creating, long after many of us are gone.
As my uncle would say, "Well shit. It's a tough life and nobody owes you jack shit. You make the best of it the best you can and be thankful you were born.'
 

SuperMatt

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Why isn't she at school?

As my uncle would say, "Well shit. It's a tough life and nobody owes you jack shit. You make the best of it the best you can and be thankful you were born.'
Sorry but how is your uncle's quote relevant to Thunberg calling actual blablabullshit on its name? I agree with her on this nearly 100%. It will take a youth that DICTATES leaders to take climate change seriously. If I place things in scale approaching carbon capture on the ridiculous scale it would be needed to offset CO2 emissions, it would take an average 25% salary cut for every single human being to shell out the money at today's tech. Now, betting the future of our species on the "hope" of the tech will be mature and upscaled enough to fix the issue n 28 years while doing nearly nothing is the stupidest shit I've heard in my life.

What really irritates me is people dislike this girl and use that as an excuse to ignore the issues she's talking about.
 

dogslobber

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Is it something she said that you disagree with? Or maybe the way she is saying it? Or is it that she is young and is therefore not supposed to speak out in this way?
She's young and hasn't any experience of life. I don't need no teenager preaching and telling me what is or isn't up with the world.
 

dogslobber

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Sorry but how is your uncle's quote relevant to Thunberg calling actual blablabullshit on its name? I agree with her on this nearly 100%. It will take a youth that DICTATES leaders to take climate change seriously. If I place things in scale approaching carbon capture on the ridiculous scale it would be needed to offset CO2 emissions, it would take an average 25% salary cut for every single human being to shell out the money at today's tech. Now, betting the future of our species on the "hope" of the tech will be mature and upscaled enough to fix the issue n 28 years while doing nearly nothing is the stupidest shit I've heard in my life.

What really irritates me is people dislike this girl and use that as an excuse to ignore the issues she's talking about.
What uncle said is true and correct. I find her obnoxious.
 
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She's young and hasn't any experience of life. I don't need no teenager preaching and telling me what is or isn't up with the world.
What uncle said is true and correct. I find her obnoxious.
Seriously who the fuck cares if she's obnoxious or not if she's correct?
Did your/my generation fix this issue? NO.
Did your/my generation contribute to this issue? YES.
Let's not pretend that your or my age places us on some moral high ground. It's actually quite the opposite.
There's this stereotyped paternalistic condescension she elicits from some men that just baffles me every single time.

She is correct, fighting climate change is traditionally considered a high risk, low reward political item that is most efficiently approached with hyperbole or minimization and the attitude will stay like this until we start punishing it by making climate change nihilism/denialism an unelectable platform.
 

Hrafn

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Seriously who the fuck cares if she's obnoxious or not if she's correct?
Did your/my generation fix this issue? NO.
Did your/my generation contribute to this issue? YES.
Let's not pretend that your or my age places us on some moral high ground. It's actually quite the opposite.
There's this stereotyped paternalistic condescension she elicits from some men that just baffles me every single time.

She is correct, fighting climate change is traditionally considered a high risk, low reward political item that is most efficiently approached with hyperbole or minimization and the attitude will stay like this until we start punishing it by making climate change nihilism/denialism an unelectable platform.
Wait, Dogslobber is annoyed, so clearly has the solution. Just waiting to hear what it is...
 

SuperMatt

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She's young and hasn't any experience of life. I don't need no teenager preaching and telling me what is or isn't up with the world.
This has been the same criticism I’ve heard from others who otherwise agree with the climate change message. They don’t like precocious kids. I personally do not have a problem with her or her message. I think she will get a lot of positive attention from the youngest members of society who might realize that they can also do something about the climate.

As for those who think climate change is a myth, it wouldn’t matter if she was 18 or 80.
 

dogslobber

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Seriously who the fuck cares if she's obnoxious or not if she's correct?
Did your/my generation fix this issue? NO.
Did your/my generation contribute to this issue? YES.
Let's not pretend that your or my age places us on some moral high ground. It's actually quite the opposite.
There's this stereotyped paternalistic condescension she elicits from some men that just baffles me every single time.

She is correct, fighting climate change is traditionally considered a high risk, low reward political item that is most efficiently approached with hyperbole or minimization and the attitude will stay like this until we start punishing it by making climate change nihilism/denialism an unelectable platform.
Fighting global warming costs money which most of these kids have no clue about. Every dollar needs to be evaluated if it's worth spending on something in nature. Nobody has proven that without man's involvement that the world wouldn't still continue to warm. We warmed after the last ice age and might be doing the same thing nowadays. I'm not convinced it's worth the effort unless I know the cost. The next climate scientist who shakes their research as proof I say: follow the money. These folk need to live on research grants into their topic so need this to be seen as a human crisis.

FWIW, where I live in snowy country we will get less snow and more rain during the summer. I am OK with that and I also don't live in a flood plane, live in a place with plenty of water, and live well above sea level. Life is about choices and if you want to live in Phoenix then don't complain about global warming. You live in a desert for goodness sakes.
 

dogslobber

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This has been the same criticism I’ve heard from others who otherwise agree with the climate change message. They don’t like precocious kids. I personally do not have a problem with her or her message. I think she will get a lot of positive attention from the youngest members of society who might realize that they can also do something about the climate.

As for those who think climate change is a myth, it wouldn’t matter if she was 18 or 80.
You might be OK listening to a kid but I have zero interest in listening to her. I simply don't care to listen to her.
 

hulugu

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Fighting global warming costs money which most of these kids have no clue about. Every dollar needs to be evaluated if it's worth spending on something in nature. Nobody has proven that without man's involvement that the world wouldn't still continue to warm. We warmed after the last ice age and might be doing the same thing nowadays. I'm not convinced it's worth the effort unless I know the cost. The next climate scientist who shakes their research as proof I say: follow the money. These folk need to live on research grants into their topic so need this to be seen as a human crisis.

FWIW, where I live in snowy country we will get less snow and more rain during the summer. I am OK with that and I also don't live in a flood plane, live in a place with plenty of water, and live well above sea level. Life is about choices and if you want to live in Phoenix then don't complain about global warming. You live in a desert for goodness sakes.

Greta seems to understand climatology a helluva lot better than you do. And, there are numerous studies indicating the cost of mitigating climate change, as well as the cost of not doing so, and there's a huge human cost to boot.

As for following the money, your entire argument here was baked in the halls of law firms for Exxon and BP by well-heeled monied lawyers and PR flacks. You want to talk about following the money, how about paying attention to a massive business rather than the relatively paltry research grants that go to a few hundred climatologists sounding an emergency.

And, just because you live in a place that won't be affected by climate change immediately doesn't mean you won't be hit by climate change. What's your water supply look like with less snow? Do you actually get more rain, or just less moisture? And, even if we accept you live in some well-protected region, entire industries, including chocolate and coffee, are likely to be affected by warming temperatures.
 

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Nobody has proven that without man's involvement that the world wouldn't still continue to warm.
"proven", no, nobody has really ironclad "proven" anything at all. We have lots of strong evidence about stuff, but no intractable proof.

What the evidence strongly suggests is that climate change has major feedback loops. It looks like, yes, the planet will indeed continue to get warmer no matter what we do. How much is uncertain, but as it stands, we are dumping a massive heap of mess on our descendants, and, in fact, we will probably be faced with major challenges and changes to our way of life before this decade is out. We seriously need to start changing stuff now, by a lot, because even if we mitigate nothing, if we fail to make changes, the near future will see us sliding into dystopia.

Fighting global warming costs money which most of these kids have no clue about.
What clues do you have about money and costs that seem to be escaping everyone? We know it will be expensive. Doing nothing will be even more expensive. You can put out the grease fire in your frying pan and pay for new cabinets or you can watch the whole house turn into charcoal.
 

SuperMatt

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Fighting global warming costs money which most of these kids have no clue about. Every dollar needs to be evaluated if it's worth spending on something in nature. Nobody has proven that without man's involvement that the world wouldn't still continue to warm. We warmed after the last ice age and might be doing the same thing nowadays. I'm not convinced it's worth the effort unless I know the cost. The next climate scientist who shakes their research as proof I say: follow the money. These folk need to live on research grants into their topic so need this to be seen as a human crisis.

FWIW, where I live in snowy country we will get less snow and more rain during the summer. I am OK with that and I also don't live in a flood plane, live in a place with plenty of water, and live well above sea level. Life is about choices and if you want to live in Phoenix then don't complain about global warming. You live in a desert for goodness sakes.
Who makes more money?

1. Oil companies
2. Climate scientists

If you “follow the money” you might come to the opposite conclusion.
 

hulugu

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Who makes more money?

1. Oil companies
2. Climate scientists

If you “follow the money” you might come to the opposite conclusion.

And, it's worth noting that even Exxon—the company that spent billions on "think tanks" and other moves to undermine the idea of climate change for almost 40 years—has said that it believes the "risk of climate change is real" and they support the Paris accord, and policy options such as a carbon tax.

From Exxon's blog Energy Factor:

....ExxonMobil welcomes any well-meaning and good faith attempt to address the risks of climate change. Reducing greenhouse gas emissions is a global issue and requires global participation and actions. Lawsuits of this kind — filed by trial attorneys against an industry that provides products we all rely upon to power the economy and enable our domestic life – simply do not do that.

It is important to recall how this began. The lawsuits filed against ExxonMobil and other companies seek billions of dollars from our shareholders – millions of ordinary people, mostly in the U.S., who’ve invested in our company. Of course we must defend ourselves against these types of suits.

I want to use this opportunity to be 100 percent clear about where we stand on climate change. We believe the risk of climate change is real and we are committed to being part of the solution. That is why we have invested $8 billion since 2000 on energy efficiency and emissions reduction.

It’s also why we support the Paris accord, policy options such as a carbon tax, and are working on new game-changing technologies to meet energy needs while managing the risk of climate change. These technologies include biofuel from algae, carbon capture and storage, and new ways to reduce the amount of energy needed in manufacturing.

Of course, the company still spends millions to undermine climate action, spending at least $690,000 in grants to climate science denier groups in 2019, and it has spent nearly $1 million in contributions to congressional campaigns helmed by science deniers. And, as this document notes, ExxonMobil spent nearly $37 million from 1998 to 2019 toward groups like the US Chamber of Commerce, the American Enterprise Institute and the Manhattan Institute, who routinely attack climate science, or arguing against policy prescriptions.

Notably, groups fueled by the Koch family—who are heavily invested in oil and gas—spent another $175 million during the same period.

But, sure, let's spend time haranguing a teenage girl about her sharp criticism of Boris Johnson, rather than acknowledge that oil and gas companies spent millions undermine climate science, and are only know pushing for some action because they've figured out the business model and know they can gish-gallop away any real action.
 
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