Hearing live blog: Apple requests partial stay of injunction in Epic case

Cmaier

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The second point is, to me, the key point. At the appeal’s court, there is nobody with standing to argue that the injunction is appropriate. Epic is not affected by the presence or absence of an injunction requiring Apple to permit linking to third-party in-app purchasing, because Epic is not on the App Store.

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And this is an interesting point about each party’s interpretation of the injunction:

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Cmaier

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Hearing on Nov. 9. Should be able to watch it on zoom via this link:



 

Herdfan

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The second point is, to me, the key point. At the appeal’s court, there is nobody with standing to argue that the injunction is appropriate. Epic is not affected by the presence or absence of an injunction requiring Apple to permit linking to third-party in-app purchasing, because Epic is not on the App Store.

So who do you think is going to win?

I have read a couple of articles on this and still not sure about some things. For example, why can I buy a Kindle book from Amazon and read it on my iOS app, but not purchase tokens for a game on my XBox and not have them be available in the iOS version?
 

Cmaier

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So who do you think is going to win?

I have read a couple of articles on this and still not sure about some things. For example, why can I buy a Kindle book from Amazon and read it on my iOS app, but not purchase tokens for a game on my XBox and not have them be available in the iOS version?

Hard to say. Maybe there’s some theory of standing I haven’t thought of, but I don’t see it.
 

Cmaier

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I don't think Apple wins this.

The more I think about it, the more i think it is likely that they do. (If by “this” you mean a stay of the injunction.). The judge knows an appeal is pending, and any injunction is an equitable remedy - absent a showing that Epic would be harmed in some way that could not be compensated for by money at a later date, the court would likely feel it has little choice but to stay the injunction pending appeal. And given that it makes no difference to Epic either way - they aren’t on the App Store so the ability to link to their own payment system is moot - delaying the injunction seemingly can’t harm Epic.
 

Cmaier

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Nice to see this conversation continuing. I appreciated your insight and perspectives when the initial trial was underway @Cmaier
Thanks :)

If I can get into the hearing tomorrow, perhaps I’ll live-blog it here. Starts at 2pm pacific, looks like. Sometimes the Apple-Epic hearings have been impossible to get into, though.
 

januarydrive7

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Thanks :)

If I can get into the hearing tomorrow, perhaps I’ll live-blog it here. Starts at 2pm pacific, looks like. Sometimes the Apple-Epic hearings have been impossible to get into, though.
I was only able to listen in through someone live-streaming on youtube last time around. A live blog here would be great for those who can't listen in for whatever reason.
 

Eric

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Thanks :)

If I can get into the hearing tomorrow, perhaps I’ll live-blog it here. Starts at 2pm pacific, looks like. Sometimes the Apple-Epic hearings have been impossible to get into, though.
Let me know if you want an announcement and we'll discuss the logistics.
 

Cmaier

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Let me know if you want an announcement and we'll discuss the logistics.

I probably won’t know if I can get in until 1:45PM pacific tomorrow. It’s a zoom hearing, and depending on crowd size it may hit the limit and keep me out. I checked the judge’s calendar, and she doesn’t have a hearing at 1, so they won’t let anybody in until a little before the 2pm hearing starts.
 

Cmaier

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Currently in the waiting room. We’ll see if I make it in.
 

Cmaier

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And I’m in!

You can be too:

 

Cmaier

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Judge “not inclined to grant” Apple’s motion. She is running through the elements for an injunction.
 

Cmaier

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Apple’s attorney arguing that ”likelihood of success on the merits,” one of the four elements, favors Apple. Argument is that the only evidence judge could have relied upon came from subscription providers, but court said subscriptions were not part of the case. Since Epic was not a subscription provider, couldn’t be part of the case.
 

Cmaier

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Judge: says no cases cited on standing issue - how did Epic have standing before but not now. Apple attorney citing Supreme Court case.

The point - epic is NOT in the app store, so how it could it matter to epic whether apple is forced to allow OTHER’s to offer own stores in App Store?
 

Cmaier

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Apple attorney: Epic has no prospect of being in the App Store anytime soon.

Epic attorney: Apple playing games. Unreal engine is in store, so it affects Epic somehow
 

Cmaier

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Apple: no evidence that harm to licensees of Unreal is harm to Epic.
 

Cmaier

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Judge: moving on to “irreparable injury” test. Apple has to show it would otherwise be injured in a way that cannot be compensated for with money in order to get a stay of the court’s order requiring links to other purchasing methods.

Apple lawyer: citing evidence on record.
 

Cmaier

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Apple lawyer: allowing links and buttons would raise risk that the links could be hijacked or otherwise point kids and consuemrs to bad actors.
 
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