Humans, Do We Have a Future?

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Do Humans Have a Future as the Top Species living on Mother Earth?

  • Nope

    Votes: 3 21.4%
  • Maybe Slightly

    Votes: 3 21.4%
  • Maybe 50-50

    Votes: 6 42.9%
  • I'm confident they do

    Votes: 1 7.1%
  • Absolutely

    Votes: 1 7.1%

  • Total voters
    14
  • This poll will close: .

Gutwrench

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Well when the Sun turns into a red giant we’d better be interstellar. And the second point also seems to allude you, we are not like every other mammal, we are aware of what we are doing, have the knowledge of what effect we have on the environment, and can actually alter our behavior that makes a difference if we want to, unlike the rest of the animals who are basically oblivious and who btw seem naturally in tune with their environment unlike us. That is the burden of knowledge...

Then it seems humans could just as well be interstellar in 8 million years rather than being extinct. But wait, what really needs focused on is the suffocating big freeze.
 
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Eraserhead

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Then it seems humans could just as well be interstellar in 8 million years rather than being extinct. But wait, what really needs focused on is the suffocating big freeze.

Im not sure a big freeze would be a big issue. For a start we’ve had technology to handle low temperatures (fire) since the Stone Age.

Plus there aren’t many of us who live about the glaciation line. It’s basically the British who would be difficult (and not for the first time).

Rising sea leaves could affect billions as a lot of people live close to the sea. And maybe we can solve it with technology but it’s not as easy.
 
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Gutwrench

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Im not sure a big freeze would be a big issue. For a start we’ve had technology to handle low temperatures (fire) since the Stone Age.
 

Huntn

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Then it seems humans could just as well be interstellar in 8 million years rather than being extinct. But wait, what really needs focused on is the suffocating big freeze.
We know we are causing, at a minimum adding to an increase of global temperatures. The warnings have been given, we could of actually done something about it, and really the majority of the world has adopted your view, que serra, so be it. The point is we have knowledge and we either act for the good of the species/the planet or we really don’t deserve to survive and I don’t want to hear any crying about it. ;)

Our species may not become extinct, but we might be knocked back significantly, and maybe this is what needs to happen for us to evolve while apologizing to the millions of species we knocked off as caretakers of the planet. :unsure:
 

Gutwrench

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We know we are causing, at a minimum adding to an increase of global temperatures. The warnings have been given, we could of actually done something about it, and really the majority of the world has adopted your view, que serra, so be it. The point is we have knowledge and we either act for the good of the species/the planet or we really don’t deserve to survive and I don’t want to hear any crying about it. ;)

Our species may not become extinct, but we might be knocked back significantly, and maybe this is what needs to happen for us to evolve while apologizing to the millions of species we knocked off as caretakers of the planet. :unsure:

The original post was a rambling disjointed tirade about climate change. There’s differing opinions on addressing it just as there’s differing opinions on economic and political systems.
 

lizkat

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This topic is a little too heady for me at the moment, but I thought I'd post a semi related thought I had recently. Why did one evolutionary path lead to dinosaurs which as far as I know was nowhere pointing to the brain power and skill of humans, and then with one extinction event we end up with humans at the top of the evolutionary chain? It seems on one path size was the advantage and the second path brain power was.

Whatever was left, and saw what happened to the dinosaurs, said WTF we were on a wrong path there for sure.
 

Huntn

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The original post was a rambling disjointed tirade about climate change. There’s differing opinions on addressing it just as there’s differing opinions on economic and political systems.
It was only seemed disjointed.. ;) And it definitely was not a tirade, at least not an unworthy one. I suppose you’d calling yelling Fire! for a real fire would be a tirade. 👀

For your benefit, the summary of post 1, is that we are marvelous creatures, with a high degree of intelligence, creativity, and perception, yet we are too self centered and selfish, truly not smart enough or worse, in denial, that with the knowledge of what needs to be done, due to our established economic systems that may cause us discomfort if we rock that boat, we refuse to act, take the necessary steps, instead many are in varying degrees of denial, because I don’t want economic discomfort now, and I won’t have to face potentially dire consequences in the future, let the grandkids do that. :unsure:
 

Gutwrench

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It was only seemed disjointed.. ;) And it definitely was not a tirade, at least not an unworthy one. I suppose you’d calling yelling Fire! for a real fire would be a tirade. 👀

For your benefit, the summary of post 1, is that we are marvelous creatures, with a high degree of intelligence, creativity, and perception, yet we are too self centered and selfish, truly not smart enough or worse, in denial, that with the knowledge of what needs to be done, due to our established economic systems that may cause us discomfort if we rock that boat, we refuse to act, take the necessary steps, instead many are in varying degrees of denial, because I don’t want economic discomfort now, and I won’t have to face potentially dire consequences in the future, let the grandkids do that. :unsure:

As I mentioned before there are varying opinions on how to address climate change just as there are on economic and political systems.

Perhaps drop the smartest man in the room approach and just articulate a few specific steps you think ought to be taken rather making broad sweeping commentary about mankind. It’s so banal and pointlessly white knightish.

And while periods do have magical healing powers they can’t perform miracles without properly formed sentences expressing logically organized thoughts.

I humbly suggest organizing your thoughts then write a sentence fragment introducing each of them separately followed with a few supporting bulletin points.

One long random unorganized list leaves the reader having to unravel what the writer is trying to say...or worse yet questioning if the writer even knows what they’re trying to say.
 

Eraserhead

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It was only seemed disjointed.. ;) And it definitely was not a tirade, at least not an unworthy one. I suppose you’d calling yelling Fire! for a real fire would be a tirade. 👀

For your benefit, the summary of post 1, is that we are marvelous creatures, with a high degree of intelligence, creativity, and perception, yet we are too self centered and selfish, truly not smart enough or worse, in denial, that with the knowledge of what needs to be done, due to our established economic systems that may cause us discomfort if we rock that boat, we refuse to act, take the necessary steps, instead many are in varying degrees of denial, because I don’t want economic discomfort now, and I won’t have to face potentially dire consequences in the future, let the grandkids do that. :unsure:
I think the problem is more that we don’t have the right leaders especially in government.
 

iMi

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We didn’t come along on our own, you know. If it hadn’t been for the K-Pg mass extinction we wouldn’t be here now.

Humans being extinct within 8 million years is now what’s keeping the enlightened up at night? Lol, since borrowing trouble from the future is the new fad lets keep in mind the sun will become a red giant in 5 billion years. Solve that too.

We should be concerned with the world we leave behind for our children and their children.

Of course, we will eventually be gone. Yes, the sun will swallow up earth before collapsing into a supernova. That’s not long-term in my book. I’d say let’s think about the next few hundred years. We will likely become a multi planetary species in that timespan. Perhaps even an intergalactic or inter dimensional one. Plus, there is also evolution. We may not become extinct at all. We may evolve into something else entirely. One could easily argue that dinosaurs did not go extinct. They evolved into birds, but we don’t call them dinosaurs anymore.
 

iMi

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This topic is a little too heady for me at the moment, but I thought I'd post a semi related thought I had recently. Why did one evolutionary path lead to dinosaurs which as far as I know was nowhere pointing to the brain power and skill of humans, and then with one extinction event we end up with humans at the top of the evolutionary chain? It seems on one path size was the advantage and the second path brain power was.

It’s a lot more complicated than this. Earth back then was richer in oxygen, which not only allowed dinosaurs to grow very large in size, but likely made their smaller brains (relative to body size) work more efficiently. There is some evidence that certain dinosaurs were quite intelligent.

The mammals that survived were small, underground species that were far removed from humans. It took millions of years of evolution for life to evolve into more branches, including primates.

We are not the only highly intelligent beings on earth. Dolphins, for example, have a complex social structure, language and ability to solve complex problems.

Also, one could argue that how we define intelligence isn’t necessarily the only way. Ants, for example, use hormones to communicate, show remarkable abilities to warn each other and even use mental maps. That’s pretty amazing.
 

iMi

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Interesting. Didn’t scientists also discover that the universe is expending at a faster and faster rate? It suggest that it’s still expending from Big Bang. In a few trillions years, it may start slowing down before starting to collapse again, doing so progressively faster, until it once again collapses into an infinitely dense matter and goes bang again.
 

lizkat

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Are we wired to be greedy or is it just a matter of faulty development?

This applies on a spectrum from smaller social groups, to society where we see well off (wealthy) continuing to grab more of the pie, while the economics of average citizens has been sliding since the 1960s. On a world wide scale, those countries with plenty, arguably are too tribal and are not as generous as they need to be when it involves the survival of our species, and even the world as we know it. Look at the Paris accords, our hearts are in the right place, but it's unlikely we'll ever have it in us to make the needed sacrifices until we see DOOM written on the wall and it's too frick'n late.

So what do you think, do we stand a chance?

Sure we do, if we insist that our leaders make more of a point about the benefits of working together to invent and distribute more eco-friendly and healthier ways of operating even at the most basic level of preparing food for families, obtaining heating fuel etc.

We probably don't widely enough yet learn about value to ourselves in helping impoverished nations join in climate change mitigation. We are starting to reallocate some of our public and private sector investments as a wealthy nation towards that end though. There are individuals and groups and companies who do invent, model and help propagate use of more eco-friendly ways of meeting basic needs, e.g. cookstoves and more renewable fuel acquisition or manufacture.

This site has very detailed filtering options for looking up suitable cookstoves for assorted situations and locations. And yes, the catalog is a feature of Clean Cooking Alliance.


And yes it's associated w/ The United Nations Foundation, and yes many of the partnerships involved are spinoffs of or actually part of multinational or USA megacorporate efforts to get on the bandwagon. Seems like that's what we have been asking them to do for decades though, no? "Help us or get out of the way?" Hold their feet to the fire if discovering they're in it for the feel-good and if their cookstove offerings don't yet offset the damage they still do in other aspects of their existence. It's a start. It's real.

In my book, a real start counts more than just dismissing "Green" efforts... including by default anyone's effort to make cooking more eco-supportive and healthy and fuel acquisition less burdensome for the women of the less developed world who usually have to perform those tasks.
 

Gutwrench

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We should be concerned with the world we leave behind for our children and their children.

Indeed. The question is how to address it.

Of course, we will eventually be gone. Yes, the sun will swallow up earth before collapsing into a supernova. That’s not long-term in my book. I’d say let’s think about the next few hundred years. We will likely become a multi planetary species in that timespan. Perhaps even an intergalactic or inter dimensional one. Plus, there is also evolution. We may not become extinct at all. We may evolve into something else entirely. One could easily argue that dinosaurs did not go extinct. They evolved into birds, but we don’t call them dinosaurs anymore.


The sun doesn’t have the mass to become a supernova. It will only become a red giant then cool to a white dwarf.

Terrestrial (non avian) dinosaurs went extinct. Avian dinosaur exist today as birds.
 

Gutwrench

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Interesting. Didn’t scientists also discover that the universe is expending at a faster and faster rate? It suggest that it’s still expending from Big Bang. In a few trillions years, it may start slowing down before starting to collapse again, doing so progressively faster, until it once again collapses into an infinitely dense matter and goes bang again.

Yes, that’s Hubble’s Law.

To my knowledge the best accepted theory today is the Big Freeze as the current data indicates there is insufficient mass to reach critical mass to reverse back to the Big Crunch.
 

lizkat

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Yes, that’s Hubble’s Law.

To my knowledge the best accepted theory today is the Big Freeze as the current data indicates there is insufficient mass to reach critical mass to reverse back to the Big Crunch.

Just the rubble being left behind by the self-destructing Republican Party should help solve that problem. They're putting so much energy into breaking all sorts rules, norms, laws... that maybe they can attack laws of physics next before they collapse entirely.

And yeah I'm abusing the less tightly administered guidelines around here, most likely. Should wander over to the other place and try this and find out what would happen. Been stalling on meeting up with a Big Crunch over there.

As you all were. Going back to the late lunch construction problem which is locating just a little Big Crunch to make it tasty,
 

Gutwrench

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Just the rubble being left behind by the self-destructing Republican Party should help solve that problem. They're putting so much energy into breaking all sorts rules, norms, laws... that maybe they can attack laws of physics next before they collapse entirely.

And yeah I'm abusing the less tightly administered guidelines around here, most likely. Should wander over to the other place and try this and find out what would happen. Been stalling on meeting up with a Big Crunch over there.

As you all were. Going back to the late lunch construction problem which is locating just a little Big Crunch to make it tasty,

Speaking of white dwarfs...... 🤪
 

lizkat

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Around here only little white critters right now are snowflakes. Comical this morning watching the utility company's contracted tree trimmer crews trying to deal with the belated realization that yeah even if it's a La Nina forecast for winter, the season is not only here but may contain random snowdumps.... even this week! --with potential to bring overhanging limbs onto wires.

Wondered where these guys were in September since it's been about three years since they came through the county road on the prowl for arboreal candidates for a haircut. If ya don't want yer trees developing unnatural shapes, then then don't put them where they'll threaten the juice supply. And the power company only does what it deems necessary right now, so if you want a lower limb of a conifer cut back to improve road visibility from your driveway, get some gloves, tough workclothes and a pruning saw, darling.
 
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