Intel Raptor Lake

Andropov

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Colstan

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So, if these numbers are accurate, the 13900K is:

Single core:

6.4% faster than 12900K
24.4% faster than 5950X

Multi core:

27.9% faster than 12900K
51.5% faster than 5950X

The big benefit comes from Raptor Lake being 24-core/32-threads, with 8 P-cores and 16 E-cores, twice as many efficiency cores as Alder Lake. It'll be interesting to see how it compares to Zen 4.

BTW, the denizens of the MR forum are attempting to cannibalize each over this benchmark, comparing it to the M2. They think a desktop CPU (assuming it has the same power budget as Alder Lake) with a 241w maximum TDP beating a chip that goes into a fanless laptop are equivalent. The real showdown is when the Apple Silicon Mac Pro is released.
 

DT

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I'm disappointed our favorite turd gobbler hasn't chimed in yet. :ROFLMAO:
 

Cmaier

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So, if these numbers are accurate, the 13900K is:

Single core:

6.4% faster than 12900K
24.4% faster than 5950X

Multi core:

27.9% faster than 12900K
51.5% faster than 5950X

The big benefit comes from Raptor Lake being 24-core/32-threads, with 8 P-cores and 16 E-cores, twice as many efficiency cores as Alder Lake. It'll be interesting to see how it compares to Zen 4.

BTW, the denizens of the MR forum are attempting to cannibalize each over this benchmark, comparing it to the M2. They think a desktop CPU (assuming it has the same power budget as Alder Lake) with a 241w maximum TDP beating a chip that goes into a fanless laptop are equivalent. The real showdown is when the Apple Silicon Mac Pro is released.

Squirrel built a nest in my backyard, and it was made of secret blueprints from apple headquarters.

1657580120795.png
 

Colstan

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They must have gotten it down to a much smaller process. They are not really saying what its juice suck is, though.
It's just a refinement of Alder Lake, hence the tepid single core gains. AL and RL both use 10nm ESF which was renamed to Intel 7.

"The 10nm Enhanced SuperFin node which will power the Alder Lake and Raptor Lake processors will be called the Intel 7 process, and the 7nm process slated to power Meteor Lake has been renamed to Intel 4 process."

The next gen Xeon, Sapphire Rapids, also uses the same node.
 

Colstan

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Squirrel built a nest in my backyard, and it was made of secret blueprints from apple headquarters.
Hornets built a nest on my front porch. Wore long close clothes, beat them off with a broom, and tossed the nest in the garbage. I didn't find any Apple blueprints, just a bunch of squirming larvae. I hate bugs and I don't like Summer. Disgusting.

Your chart is slightly off, the 12900KS is:

ST: 2061
MT: 19471

Pedantic, I know, but accuracy doesn't hurt. Will you be adding Zen 4, once that is leaked? (Because you know it's gonna leak, the PC guys can't keep a lid on anything.)
 
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Cmaier

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Hornets built a nest on my front porch. Wore long close, beat them off with a broom, and tossed the nest in the garbage. I didn't find any Apple blueprints, just a bunch of squirming larvae. I hate bugs and I don't like Summer. Disgusting.

Your chart is slightly off, the 12900KS is:

ST: 2061
MT: 19471

Pedantic, I know, but accuracy doesn't hurt. Will you be adding Zen 4, once that is leaked? (Because you know it's gonna leak, the PC guys can't keep a lid on anything.)
I’ll add anything you want.
 

Colstan

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I’ll add anything you want.
Not so much add, but subtract. Do we know that the M2 Pro/Max/Ultra/Extreme/Deluxe/Bodacious are 3nm? I think that was just a rumor and that 3nm appears to be a 2023 thing. Please correct me, if I am wrong.
 

Cmaier

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Not so much add, but subtract. Do we know that the M2 Pro/Max/Ultra/Extreme/Deluxe/Bodacious are 3nm? I think that was just a rumor and that 3nm appears to be a 2023 thing. Please correct me, if I am wrong.

Based on whispers, I am beginning to think that as unlikely as it seems, the next M2 variants are 3nm. I don’t understand how, but that seems to be the buzz.
 

Andropov

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So, if these numbers are accurate, the 13900K is:

Single core:

6.4% faster than 12900K
24.4% faster than 5950X

Multi core:

27.9% faster than 12900K
51.5% faster than 5950X
Ah, I thought the 12900K single core was much slower.
 

leman

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So, if these numbers are accurate, the 13900K is:

Single core:

6.4% faster than 12900K

There are plenty 12900K entries on GB5 with single-core scores over 2152. The Raptor Lake entry with 2133 does not look too impressive here. GB5 on Windows shows extreme fluctuation in scores. I am still not 100% sure whether it's overclocking, incompetent benchmarking or just the OS being crappy. Mac scores have much lower variance.
 

Colstan

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There are plenty 12900K entries on GB5 with single-core scores over 2152. The Raptor Lake entry with 2133 does not look too impressive here. GB5 on Windows shows extreme fluctuation in scores. I am still not 100% sure whether it's overclocking, incompetent benchmarking or just the OS being crappy. Mac scores have much lower variance.
I looked at a few hardware review sites for the 12900K and averaged their GB5 scores together. Presumably, they're less likely to monkey around when compared to enthusiasts who obsesses over every fractional percentage and employ exotic cooling solutions. Also, the leak matches up with the more reliable rumors of a small bump in single-core performance for Raptor Lake. It will be interesting to see how it stacks up against Zen 4.

For the overall PC industry, they're going to need any advances they can eke out. According to Gartner, Apple is the only computer manufacturer to have grown shipments last quarter, with the overall market suffering its worst decline in nine years.

gartner.png


Worldwide PC shipments declined by -12.6% YOY, meanwhile Apple's Mac shipments grew by 9.3% worldwide, and 19.5% in the U.S. Assuming Gartner's numbers aren't wildly inaccurate, this speaks volumes about the reception of Apple Silicon Macs in the general market. These aren't just Mac users replacing old Intel Macs, but customers that are new to the platform which now comprise 50% of Mac sales.

While useful, Geekbench numbers only matter so much. Even if Intel were to design the fastest CPU in living memory, it doesn't matter if the space heaters it goes in don't sell. As impressive as Apple Silicon is, people don't buy Apple's SoC, but the integrated product we call a Mac. The PC apostles like to wave Geekbench scores around to compensate for poor metrics in thermals, power efficiency, noise levels, and software and hardware inefficiencies that are fundamentally ineradicably ingrained within all Windows PCs.

PC partisans are always going to find obscure chess benchmarks that show that their favorite company's dad can beat up Apple's dad, but the overall trend clearly favors Apple. There was a lot of skepticism, much of it warranted, when Apple announced the switch from x86 to their own designs. Decades of ancient technological battlefields are littered with the corpses of superior designs that were business failures. The Mac is in a unique position, in that not only does it feature demonstrably superior technology at every level, but it's also a tremendous financial success. Despite a looming global recession, consumers are choosing a flight to quality, and the Mac is the beneficiary.
 

theorist9

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More on Raptor Lake from Intel's Technology Tour 2022, held in early Sept.:
"Intel also claimed that Raptor Lake will have a 15% gain in single-threaded performance and a 41% gain in multi-threaded, as measured by SPECintrate_2017 and compared to Alder Lake, and an overall '40% performance scaling.'"

A rumored SKU chart has the i9-13900K with 8P+16E (as compared with 8P+8E for the i9-12900K). If legit, that would explain why its %MT increase is much higher than the %ST increase.

Extrapolating to GB, that would translate to 2,300 ST/24,400 MT for an i9-13900K, using GB's average scores for the i9-12900K as a baseline:

1664157805415.png


 
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Cmaier

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More on Raptor Lake from Intel's Technology Tour 2022, held in early Sept.:
"Intel also claimed that Raptor Lake will have a 15% gain in single-threaded performance and a 41% gain in multi-threaded, as measured by SPECintrate_2017 and compared to Alder Lake, and an overall '40% performance scaling.'"

A rumored SKU chart has the i9-13900K with 8P+16E (as compared with 8P+8E for the i9-12900K). If legit, that would explain why its %MT increase is much higher than the %ST increase.

Extrapolating to GB, that would translate to 2,300 ST/24,400 MT for an i9-13900K, using GB's average scores for the i9-12900K as a baseline:

View attachment 18033


Somewhere between M2 Max and M2 Ultra, seems like.
 

theorist9

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Somewhere between M2 Max and M2 Ultra, seems like.
Yeah, for MT.

For ST, it will be interesting to see what 3 nm M3 can do. It would need to be ~20% faster than the M2 to reach 2,300. Of course it doesn't have to, particularly in the laptops, where it will be competing with Intel's (much slower) mobile CPU's.

I think AS will continue to wear the mobile CPU crown at least until Intel or AMD figure out how to make their chips much more efficient, and that will probably take a while.
 

Cmaier

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Yeah, for MT.

For ST, it will be interesting to see what 3 nm M3 can do. It would need to be ~20% faster than the M2 to reach 2,300. Of course it doesn't have to, particularly in the laptops, where it will be competing with Intel's (much slower) mobile CPU's.

I think AS will continue to wear the mobile CPU crown at least until Intel or AMD figure out how to make their chips much more efficient, and that will probably take a while.

I wouldn’t be surprised if Max/Ultra can run at higher clock speeds than base M2 (unlike M1), but we’ll see. M3 should definitely be able to beat 2300 ST.
 

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Apparently Intel's i9-13900KS will be the first stock 6GHz desktop CPU [source]. Only CineBench scores leaked. PL1 and PL2 increase again from the 12900KS (125W -> 150W for PL1, 241W -> 253W for PL2).
 

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Apparently Intel's i9-13900KS will be the first stock 6GHz desktop CPU [source]. Only CineBench scores leaked. PL1 and PL2 increase again from the 12900KS (125W -> 150W for PL1, 241W -> 253W for PL2).
That’s certainly one way to go…
 

theorist9

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Apparently Intel's i9-13900KS will be the first stock 6GHz desktop CPU [source]. Only CineBench scores leaked. PL1 and PL2 increase again from the 12900KS (125W -> 150W for PL1, 241W -> 253W for PL2).
Are there ways other than clock speed that the i9-13900KS could improve in ST performance over the i9-13900K? Based on the diff. in clock speed alone (6 GHz vs. 5.8 GHz), the i9-13900KS should be only 3% faster, with an increase in CB ST from 2.2k to 2.3k. But they're claiming 5% and 2.4k, respectively.
 
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