Mac Interesting article on Mac gaming

[Jimmyjames]

Macs look like the future of PC gaming, whether PC gamers like it or not

Apple silicon could turn Macs into gaming consoles

www.techradar.com

Quite interesting. Perhaps a little too optimistic? Definitely don't read any comments on Reddit or Macrumors!

 

[Cmaier]

Apple sees gaming as very important, and they are going to keep banging away on it from every angle, including the content side, until they gain traction.

 

[Citysnaps]

I can believe it.

Although not a game, over the last couple of weeks I've been experimenting with and fine tuning X-Plane 11 flight simulator on a recently purchased Mac driving three 4K displays (for a quasi wrap around field of view) and a studio display.

Results are very encouraging. Goal is to be ready for X-Plane 12 with should be beta-ing in a month, with much improved scenery, realism, and flight dynamics. And M1 native. Rosetta seems to be fine so far, but a small boost via native on the CPU side would be nice - GPU is already Metal.

 

[Herdfan]

Apple sees gaming as very important, and they are going to keep banging away on it from every angle, including the content side, until they gain traction.

Ever see an Apple console?

 

[fischersd]

Ever see an Apple console?

You mean an Apple TV?

Edit: They could easily do that - put an M series chip in one of these - but then we're potentially getting into Mac Mini territory.

I've often thought Apple should do just that - put Safari on TVOS and let us use our wireless trackpads, mice and keyboards with the AppleTV.

 

[Herdfan]

You mean an Apple TV?

Edit: They could easily do that - put an M series chip in one of these - but then we're potentially getting into Mac Mini territory.

I've often thought Apple should do just that - put Safari on TVOS and let us use our wireless trackpads, mice and keyboards with the AppleTV.

I think to be a true console gaming machine, of which the Mini would do great, you need a way to be able to use controllers. Not everyone likes to game with a keyboard and mouse.

And yes Safari on TVOS would be great.

 

[fischersd]

I think to be a true console gaming machine, of which the Mini would do great, you need a way to be able to use controllers. Not everyone likes to game with a keyboard and mouse.

And yes Safari on TVOS would be great.

Pretty sure you can use bluetooth gamepads with the AppleTV and Apple Arcade currently.

 

[DT]

Pretty sure you can use bluetooth gamepads with the AppleTV and Apple Arcade currently.

Yeah, it supports XBOX:

• Xbox Wireless Controller with Bluetooth (Model 1708)
• Xbox Elite Wireless Controller Series 2
• Xbox Adaptive Controller
• Xbox Wireless Controller Series S and Series X

and PS4/5 controllers;

• PlayStation DualShock 4 Wireless Controller
• PlayStation 5 DualSense Wireless Controller

(up to four)

 

[JayAgostino]

Yeah, it supports XBOX:

• Xbox Wireless Controller with Bluetooth (Model 1708)
• Xbox Elite Wireless Controller Series 2
• Xbox Adaptive Controller
• Xbox Wireless Controller Series S and Series X

and PS4/5 controllers;

• PlayStation DualShock 4 Wireless Controller
• PlayStation 5 DualSense Wireless Controller

(up to four)

Nintendo controllers work too!


Oh, and that includes MFi controllers!

The Best MFi Game Controllers for Your Apple TV

While most people use their Apple TV strictly for movies and TV shows, it’s a perfectly capable little casual gaming console—if you pair it with a good controller.

www.reviewgeek.com

 

[Jimmyjames]

Another article

https://www.tomsguide.com/opinion/i-finally-have-hope-for-mac-gaming-heres-why

Seems like Apple had a small gaming event (words I never thought I'd see!) for some journalists. The plot thickens.

 

[MEJHarrison]

I'm a VR gamer these days. I love my Quest 2. It's fantastic. But the big piece I'm missing out on is PCVR. If I had the ability to run PCVR stuff from a Mac like you can on a PC, I'd do a major happy dance. I don't expect that to ever happen. And if it does, I don't see the solution coming from Apple themselves.

I have an M1 Max in a Mac Studio, so I've got the raw horsepower to do what I want to do. It's a shame I can't put that power to use.

 

[JayAgostino]

I don't see the solution coming from Apple themselves.

They (sort of) tried to do that, but it didn't work out.

SteamVR Coming To Mac

Apple is finally getting serious about VR on its Mac platform, announcing that it is working with Valve to bring SteamVR to Mac. Apple’s executives hinted that more announcements would be coming related to VR during its developer conference, including VR workflows so creators can make VR...

uploadvr.com

Valve Ends SteamVR Support For macOS

Valve just ended SteamVR’s support for macOS. ‘Legacy builds’ will continue to be available. SteamVR is Valve’s PC-based virtual reality platform, supporting Windows and Linux. Mac owners can continue to use the latest versions of SteamVR by installing Windows as a secondary OS...

uploadvr.com

 

[MEJHarrison]

They (sort of) tried to do that, but it didn't work out.

SteamVR Coming To Mac

Apple is finally getting serious about VR on its Mac platform, announcing that it is working with Valve to bring SteamVR to Mac. Apple’s executives hinted that more announcements would be coming related to VR during its developer conference, including VR workflows so creators can make VR...

uploadvr.com

Valve Ends SteamVR Support For macOS

Valve just ended SteamVR’s support for macOS. ‘Legacy builds’ will continue to be available. SteamVR is Valve’s PC-based virtual reality platform, supporting Windows and Linux. Mac owners can continue to use the latest versions of SteamVR by installing Windows as a secondary OS...

uploadvr.com

I'd come across that before. Hopefully they'll resurrect that project now that the horsepower is there for it.

 

[dada_dave]

Macs look like the future of PC gaming, whether PC gamers like it or not

Apple silicon could turn Macs into gaming consoles

www.techradar.com

Quite interesting. Perhaps a little too optimistic? Definitely don't read any comments on Reddit or Macrumors!

I remember the thread on Macrumors arguing almost these exact same points and some members on there trying to argue against it. (I was not the progenitor of that thread, another user put it forward and in fact he an I disagreed with each other on a different topic, but I completely agreed with him on this one). EDIT: I should state that I don't think anything is foregone conclusion, we have a long way to go, but signs are finally pointing up for Mac gaming. There's certainly potential here.

 

[Colstan]

I remember the thread on Macrumors arguing almost these exact same points and some members on there trying to argue against it. (I was not the progenitor of that thread, another user put it forward and in fact he an I disagreed with each other on a different topic, but I completely agreed with him on this one). EDIT: I should state that I don't think anything is foregone conclusion, we have a long way to go, but signs are finally pointing up for Mac gaming. There's certainly potential here.

Andrew Tsai makes a similar argument in his latest video.



Even though Steam technically has Intel Macs slightly above 50%, if percentage growth holds, then Apple Silicon has surpassed Intel Mac market share right about now. This is a huge boon for developers, because all Apple Silicon Macs are capable gaming machines, no more shit Intel iGPUs, and they have a much more common hardware base to target. Metal 3 also seems to be highly regarding by those who have extensively studied it.

@Cmaier's statement above that:

Apple sees gaming as very important, and they are going to keep banging away on it from every angle, including the content side, until they gain traction.

...is also a factor in my outlook on the Mac's future potential as a gaming platform.

By all accounts, Resident Evil Village has been well-received, and has remained the number one game sold on the Mac App Store since it was released.

RE Village is targeted toward a more hardcore audience, so it's encouraging to see it coming in ahead of titles like the Sims or Civ. Mac gamers have a reputation for being a casual audience, even though I think that is an unfair comparison. Intel's integrated graphics never supported much beyond simple titles.

Also, while AMD has been getting a lot of positive tech press for the "they're listening to gamers!" presentation, I think it shows how warped perceptions have become. The 7900 XTX only looks good next to their competitor. Since when did a $1,000 graphics card become a bargain? When did 355w become an achievement? Keep in mind that the Mac Studio with an M1 Ultra maxes out at 215w, and that's for the entire computer.

So yeah, anything could happen, but I don't see these crazy wattages as being sustainable, housed inside those gigantic anime-themed cases. Macs aren't budget computers, but a $1,000 graphics card isn't something to be applauded. It wasn't that long ago that higher end cards were around $300, now those are budget cards, and not all of this can be blamed on inflation. I'm sure Apple will increase prices, as well, but nothing as crazy as what many of the PC companies have been pushing.

 

[diamond.g]

Mainstream PC GPU's should be cheaper than the ultra enthusiast tier that folks are quick to complain about.

Apple just needs to keep paying for content until devs start putting out titles without their financial support (which basically means nothing they pay for will be available for Mac users on Steam).

 

[Colstan]

Mainstream PC GPU's should be cheaper than the ultra enthusiast tier that folks are quick to complain about.

That's the issue I have. The "mainstream" GPU solutions cost more than high-end cards did a few years ago. I get that inflation and process technology increase costs, but not to the point Nvidia and AMD have taken it. From my perspective, AMD being cheered for having a GPU that costs $1,000, high-end or not, is ridiculous. However, I do think AMD did win a massive advertising victory. A lot of people are going to buy the 7900 XTX because the message and peer pressure among gamers are intense.

Apple just needs to keep paying for content until devs start putting out titles without their financial support (which basically means nothing they pay for will be available for Mac users on Steam).

Most agreeable. Cliff said that Apple is going to keep hammering at it. I honestly prefer getting my games from GOG, Steam is a steaming mess, but the Mac App Store is fine. If Resident Evil Village does well, then hopefully Apple will be able to bring that success to other developers of enthusiast titles.

 

[diamond.g]

That's the issue I have. The "mainstream" GPU solutions cost more than high-end cards did a few years ago. I get that inflation and process technology increase costs, but not to the point Nvidia and AMD have taken it. From my perspective, AMD being cheered for having a GPU that costs $1,000, high-end or not, is ridiculous. However, I do think AMD did win a massive advertising victory. A lot of people are going to buy the 7900 XTX because the message and peer pressure among gamers are intense.

Most agreeable. Cliff said that Apple is going to keep hammering at it. I honestly prefer getting my games from GOG, Steam is a steaming mess, but the Mac App Store is fine. If Resident Evil Village does well, then hopefully Apple will be able to bring that success to other developers of enthusiast titles.

A 6600XT was 379 at launch and is roughly as fast as a 1080ti (699) or a 2070super (499). Granted it isn't the 199/250 mainstream pricing (RTX3050 pricing) but I think some of that is due to the crypto craze.

Buying used is always an option if new GPU pricing is so off-putting.

 

[Colstan]

A 6600XT was 379 at launch and is roughly as fast as a 1080ti (699) or a 2070super (499). Granted it isn't the 199/250 mainstream pricing (RTX3050 pricing) but I think some of that is due to the crypto craze.

Sure, I understand the value proposition, but the overall trend is worsening compared to general inflationary pressures. I just think that PC gaming is getting closer and closer to becoming a hobby for the wealthy. I'm not griping because I can't afford one, I could afford building a killer gaming machine if I so desired, I'm just not sure it's something that can be justified for many people who were paying significantly less not just for GPUs, but CPUs and motherboards, before the pandemic made for an excellent excuse to increase prices. I do have to give credit to AMD's marketing department for masterfully crafting their messaging after Nvidia's bungling.

While Apple products are not cheap, it's a premium brand, I think that the Mac actually has an appealing price/performance proposition compared to where PC gaming is headed. The "PC Master Race" is never going to give Apple a chance, but they are disproportionately noisy compared to their buying power. Some prognosticating on the Mac's future gaming success is premature, but traditional PC outlets are starting to take notice.

Buying used is always an option if new GPU pricing is so off-putting.

On a purely personal level, after my recent Mac Pro misadventure, I'm done with the secondary market. Expensive electronics are not something I want to risk anymore, and I was fortunate that the company I bought it from was a real store and had a 30-day money back guarantee, unlike the vast majority of sellers who dump their old gear on someone else. Those mining cards are going to have a lot of mileage on them.

I realize that the Mac will never have the same availability of so called "AAA" titles as Windows PCs, but it doesn't need to. We just need enough quality enthusiast class games to make it attractive to developers and many gamers who would otherwise consider the Mac for their general computing needs. There's still years of stink from the garbage iGPUs of the Intel era to shake off. I think that, in another year, a Mac mini with a hypothetical M3 Pro or an entry level Mac Studio with an M3 Max will be an attractive value compared to a PC of similar price/performance.

Apple Silicon and Metal 3 have opened doors that weren't previously accessible, a unified platform for developers to target is a huge advantage, compared to the hodgepodge of worthless Intel integrated graphics sprinkled with middling AMD GPUs that the Mac suffered from. Between the PPC switch to Intel, a mishmash of PC hardware during the Intel period, and now the second half of the switch to Apple Silicon, the Mac has been an inconsistent platform for nearly two decades. Once the transition is complete (which is happening faster than I had anticipated) Apple will finally have a stable, consistent platform to develop for. In that respect, they will have a unified experience for the Mac, while PC companies are becoming more bifurcated than they have been in decades. It's up to Apple to decide whether it's something that they are willing to pursue. Apple can be quite obstinate, for good or for bad, while Intel seems to be close to giving up on Arc. In this case, Apple being stubborn about enthusiast gaming could be a good sign for Mac gamers.