Is it exaggeration to suggest the USA is at a crossroads?

[Huntn]

…the most significant crossroads, the biggest threat to the Nation since the Civil War, a fight that could destroy the principles upon the which the country was founded.

• 1776- Independence (Slavery set aside).
• 1861- Multiple States secede from the Union, Civil War follows (race again).
  
  Timeline | America Civil War

  Civil War Timeline makes an interesting read for all the history lovers. How it all began, who played what role, what made it last for four long years and what went on during all this time, etc. are some of the questions that naturally come to anybody’s mind. Given below is the chronology of events

  www.americacivilwar.org
• 1950s- Cold War. Conservatives go on a witch hunt for Internal Communists.
• 1950-60s- Civil Rights movement (think about it, 100 freaking years later race, the inability to attain equal rights for all is still an issue).
• 1962- Armageddon comes >< close. A Democrat President resists the suggestion of launching a military strike.
• 2016- Half the voting populace elect a despicable, corrupt, lying narcissist, sociopath to oversee pounding a stake in the heart of our Democracy.
• 2021- A mob incited by a sitting President storms the US Capitol in an attempt to over throw the election and keep the putrescence flowing.
• 2022- Will the Dark Side finally win?

Usually if you can’t win elections based on your ideas, you come up with better ideas that appeal to a majority. However, following this period, conservatives/the GOP started turning to the dark side, started to turn their backs on Democracy. You don’t think so? In the US South blacks outnumbered whites. How do you win elections when you are a minority who has been hostile towards the majority, who used to be enslaved?? You deny those who would vote against you equal rights, you suppress the vote, you keep your perceived adversaries/competition economically depressed. This has been going on in the US South for 200 years.

Today here is the reason the US is in deep shit. This poison is expanding beyond race, (but race is still in the middle of it). Most of the State legislatures are under the control of the Republican Party, supported by a minority of citizens in those states, but a powerful organized political force. Gerrymandering under the GOP has given many of those States under Republican control, a lock on power even with the majority in those States against the GOP.

The GOP has abandoned any semblance of honoring Democracy as defined in this country. Since the 2020 election, these Republican controlled State Legislatures are now putting into place laws that take away the power of elections from independent election boards and giving it to the political representatives in charge of the State, the ability to overturn the outcome of any election they don’t like the results of. The “official reason” is to prevent fraud, but with zero requirements to prove fraud. Just because they will say so, will be all of the reason needed to put a stake in the heart of our democracy.

 

[JayMysteri0]

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1478840795767586817/

 

[Huntn]

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1478840795767586817/

Are any minds on the other side listening, much less swayed?
Donald Trump should be in jail and we are fucked because basically half the country supports this POS. Not only that, the crowd that describes themselves as Republicans have broken bad, deciding that “Democracy” no longer serves their ideal future, their hold on power. If that is not a recipe for Civil War I don’t what is…

 

[Huntn]

I just listened to a legal expert on MSNBC who said that the act of interferring with an official action like counting the vote in an election is a felony with up to a 20 year prison sentence, yet people who entered the Capitol one year ago have been charge and convicted of trespassing with zero jail time. Really?

It was also reported that 57 people who attended the Jan6 Trump’s Stop the Steal Rally in DC are running for positions to oversee elections around the country.

 

[Eric]

I think we're seeing a shift back to normal in many ways, I know most of my friends who showed themselves to be racists in the era of Trump have crawled back under their rocks. I maintain that these people were always like this but it wasn't until Trump gave them a platform that we saw their true colors, and what we saw from some of them was flat out scary.

 

[Thomas Veil]

I've heard people like Bill Maher express the opinion that we are not going to go to civil war. Our differences are not primarily divided along geographic lines as they were during the 19th century, he says.

But that's naive. Okay, so we're not gonna don blue and gray uniforms and call ourselves yankees and confederates...but there are civil wars that are guerrilla wars. It would not be unexpected for this to deteriorate into kidnappings, bombings, murders, etc., all across the country--especially if the Party of Lincoln Treason can't get their way by trying to manipulate elections.

I just listened to a legal expert on MSNBC who said that the act of interferring with an official action like counting the vote in an election is a felony with up to a 20 year prison sentence, yet people who entered the Capitol one year ago have been charge and convicted of trespassing with zero jail time. Really?

It was also reported that 57 people who attended the Jan6 Trump’s Stop the Steal Rally in DC are running for positions to oversee elections around the country.

If I had my way, trying to overthrow a legally elected government as they did should get you convicted of treason--even if you are a natural born citizen--and deported. At the very least for those running for office, it should get you permanently disqualified.

Even if we had the political will to strengthen our laws in this direction, I don't expect to see any legislative action from this because Manchin.

 

[Yoused]

I think we're seeing a shift back to normal in many ways, I know most of my friends who showed themselves to be racists in the era of Trump have crawled back under their rocks.

I would not count that as actual progress. They have not stopped being otherists, they have just put it out of view. The poison yet simmers, ready to boil up at the slightest provocation. And probably more toxic.

 

[SuperMatt]

I've heard people like Bill Maher express the opinion that we are not going to go to civil war. Our differences are not primarily divided along geographic lines as they were during the 19th century, he says.

But that's naive. Okay, so we're not gonna don blue and gray uniforms and call ourselves yankees and confederates...but there are civil wars that are guerrilla wars. It would not be unexpected for this to deteriorate into kidnappings, bombings, murders, etc., all across the country--especially if the Party of Lincoln Treason can't get their way by trying to manipulate elections.



If I had my way, trying to overthrow a legally elected government as they did should get you convicted of treason--even if you are a natural born citizen--and deported. At the very least for those running for office, it should get you permanently disqualified.

Even if we had the political will to strengthen our laws in this direction, I don't expect to see any legislative action from this because Manchin.

Imagine if the GOP universally condemned the terrorists and Trump and rooted out the Trump loyalists from the party. We could move on as a democracy, debate issues, and move forward. Instead, they kowtow to Trump like the sniveling cowards they are. Only 1 Republican even showed up for the Jan 6 remembrance. We only have one party right now that actually supports democracy.

 

[lizkat]

I would not count that as actual progress. They have not stopped being otherists, they have just put it out of view. The poison yet simmers, ready to boil up at the slightest provocation. And probably more toxic.

Yeah and you can't un-hear the sound of a bell if someone rang it in your ear during the Obama or Trump administrations. But I'm ok with it not being amplified 24/7 the way it was when Trump was in the WH and on regular social media platforms.

I've noticed what Eric is saying though too... it's been toned back down again since Biden was sworn in.

Around here it feels like it's back to like when Bush 43 was in office. You know where racist and unrepentant neighbors (or relatives!) stand but they're not much in your face with it. Obama they felt as a threat, Trump as an enabler, Biden they figure is a caretaker and handy scapegoat who got us out of Afghanistan (whoever got us out was going to eat blame for how it would go) and he had signed off on another round of stimulus checks so can't be all bad in this broke-a^^ county and even if he is, it's January so who cares, too cold to stand around waiting for the mail carrier and offering racist tropes by way of jokes as non sequiturs to how the weather is today.

 

[User.45]

…the most significant crossroads, the biggest threat to the Nation since the Civil War, a fight that could destroy the principles upon the which the country was founded.

• 1776- Independence (Slavery set aside).
• 1861- Multiple States secede from the Union, Civil War follows (race again).
  
  Timeline | America Civil War

  Civil War Timeline makes an interesting read for all the history lovers. How it all began, who played what role, what made it last for four long years and what went on during all this time, etc. are some of the questions that naturally come to anybody’s mind. Given below is the chronology of events

  www.americacivilwar.org
• 1950s- Cold War. Conservatives go on a witch hunt for Internal Communists.
• 1950-60s- Civil Rights movement (think about it, 100 freaking years later race, the inability to attain equal rights for all is still an issue).
• 1962- Armageddon comes >< close. A Democrat President resists the suggestion of launching a military strike.
• 2016- Half the voting populace elect a despicable, corrupt, lying narcissist, sociopath to oversee pounding a stake in the heart of our Democracy.
• 2021- A mob incited by a sitting President storms the US Capitol in an attempt to over throw the election and keep the putrescence flowing.
• 2022- Will the Dark Side finally win?

Usually if you can’t win elections based on your ideas, you come up with better ideas that appeal to a majority. However, following this period, conservatives/the GOP started turning to the dark side, started to turn their backs on Democracy. You don’t think so? In the US South blacks outnumbered whites. How do you win elections when you are a minority who has been hostile towards the majority, who used to be enslaved?? You deny those who would vote against you equal rights, you suppress the vote, you keep your perceived adversaries/competition economically depressed. This has been going on in the US South for 200 years.

Today here is the reason the US is in deep shit. This poison is expanding beyond race, (but race is still in the middle of it). Most of the State legislatures are under the control of the Republican Party, supported by a minority of citizens in those states, but a powerful organized political force. Gerrymandering under the GOP has given many of those States under Republican control, a lock on power even with the majority in those States against the GOP.

The GOP has abandoned any semblance of honoring Democracy as defined in this country. Since the 2020 election, these Republican controlled State Legislatures are now putting into place laws that take away the power of elections from independent election boards and giving it to the political representatives in charge of the State, the ability to overturn the outcome of any election they don’t like the results of. The “official reason” is to prevent fraud, but with zero requirements to prove fraud. Just because they will say so, will be all of the reason needed to put a stake in the heart of our democracy.

You might wanna change "Plan on some violence" to "Anticipating some violence".

I suspect none of us is planning on some violence, except for @D_T of course.

 

[Joe]

I think we're seeing a shift back to normal in many ways, I know most of my friends who showed themselves to be racists in the era of Trump have crawled back under their rocks. I maintain that these people were always like this but it wasn't until Trump gave them a platform that we saw their true colors, and what we saw from some of them was flat out scary.

I stopped being friends with those people.

 

[Eric]

I stopped being friends with those people.

That's the case with me, too. It's a shame, lost a couple of lifelong friendships over it.

 

[Joe]

That's the case with me, too. It's a shame, lost a couple of lifelong friendships over it.

Trump really brought out folks true colors. One of the good things he did.

 

[lizkat]

I stopped being friends with those people.

It hasn't bothered me to ditch a few unrepentant racists out of my books too, but at least in my case a bunch of Trump voters who don't shy away from the occasional racist trope are still my neighbors and I'm still gonna be running into them along the road or down at the firehall or the church hall or when someone dies or gets married.

That's how it is in most rural areas... a thin veneer sometimes over some rough patches, and it's not just in the south where you may say "well bless your heart" but you and they know exactly what you actually mean.

Without that veneer of quasi-social bonding, well there'd be many more legendary feuds and vendettas than there have been in all of US history, and more instances of people starving, or freezing to death when their car breaks down etc. So a range of less drastic neighborly exchanges come to seem right as well... to do whatever you should offer to do without being asked, and the rest might be up to time and place.

Sure, "Let's take it outside" is still an option. And walking away is too, usually.

 

[Yoused]

I have a cousin who voted for Reagan. I have not spoken to him in years.

 

[lizkat]

I have a cousin who voted for Reagan. I have not spoken to him in years.

Reagan, yah... There's a part of me still sitting in NYC in front of a TV set, eating takeout Chinese-Cuban food and watching the returns come in during the 1980 election. It would be 25 years before I bumped into an accurate description of my state of mind that evening. The problem, of course is that just being alienated doesn't really solve any problems. Still it was nice finally to be able to put a tag on where I had landed at least momentarily a quarter-century earlier.

​

​

 

[User.168]

.

 

[Huntn]

You might wanna change "Plan on some violence" to "Anticipating some violence".

I suspect none of us is planning on some violence, except for @D_T of course.

I meant plan on seeing violence, but a valid point.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

The only non violent/non extreme way I see out of this is apologize and reset. Top members of both parties need to collectively apologize for fucking up badly and promise to do better. So does the news media. All are complicit and lesser of 2 evils or one party is so much worse than the other is meaningless at this point. There are legitimate grievances against all involved. As long as there are still a sizable amount of people who think their party or news source is free from blame or blood on their hands we’re fucked.

A collective establishment apology won’t fix everything but at least it sends a message to the disenfranchised of both sides that they understand why people are so mad at the entire system. If people still want to hunker down with strong man fascism they can stick with Trumpism, but it should be less people after an acknowledgment that past failings by both sides lead to Trump’s rise. It’s also a good first step to remove the cancer that he has become on politics and democracy.

 

[SuperMatt]

The only non violent/non extreme way I see out of this is apologize and reset. Top members of both parties need to collectively apologize for fucking up badly and promise to do better. So does the news media. All are complicit and lesser of 2 evils or one party is so much worse than the other is meaningless at this point. There are legitimate grievances against all involved. As long as there are still a sizable amount of people who think their party or news source is free from blame or blood on their hands we’re fucked.

A collective establishment apology won’t fix everything but at least it sends a message to the disenfranchised of both sides that they understand why people are so mad at the entire system. If people still want to hunker down with strong man fascism they can stick with Trumpism, but it should be less people after an acknowledgment that past failings by both sides lead to Trump’s rise. It’s also a good first step to remove the cancer that he has become on politics and democracy.

I disagree with this. We cannot move forward until everybody in both parties condemns the violence on Jan 6. Once that’s done, perhaps “both sides” can admit some fault on other issues. But right now, you’ve got one side refusing to condemn this terrorist attack (and some of them actively supported it). Until the GOP denounces white supremacy and violent overthrow of the duly-elected government, they cannot and should not be apologized to by anybody.