Jan 6 Committee Public Hearings

[GermanSuplex]

So, while the story of Trump lunging at the wheel is relatively minor (though attacking someone is not so much), this has been what MAGA world has latched onto to try to discredit Hutchinson's testimony. However, it should be noted Tony Ornato is a Trump guy.... and he's already broken secret service precedent in dedication to the MAGA cult.

Reporter: Agent who refuted Hutchinson testimony is a "Trump acolyte"

Trump liked Tony Ornato so much he gave him a political job while keeping him part of the Secret Service.

www.salon.com

 

[DT]

Meltdown continued

There's always some clown-speak from him / his cronies, i.e., the "unselect", then the supporters graft that into every conversation like it's super clever, but it's fucking idiotic.

I guess when much of your constituency are morons who can't think for themselves, they need their cute little buzzwords to use on Twitter.

 

[GermanSuplex]

So it looks like at least one of the messages that Cheney was referring to when she warned about witness tampering came from a Mark Meadows intermediary. A Meadows spokesperson denied trying to influence Hutchinson, but notice he doesn't actually deny the messages.... The last sentence makes no sense. What's misleading? The messages, her characterization of them?

I mean, if Meadows or one of his cronies didn't send the message, why not just say that?

Ben Williamson, a spokesperson for Meadows, provided the following statement to POLITICO: “No one from Meadows’ camp, himself or otherwise, has ever attempted to intimidate or shape Ms. Hutchinson’s testimony to the committee. Any phone call or message she is describing is at best deeply misleading.”

New details of Jan. 6 panel's mystery messages emerge

Former Trump White House aide Cassidy Hutchinson told the committee she was contacted by an intermediary for Mark Meadows, according to a person familiar with her final deposition.

www.politico.com

 

[Roller]

I live in a deeply red state, and so, predictably, I knew many people who voted for Trump in 2016. Most of them were friends and colleagues who are well-educated, competent, and thoughtful. For the few I spoke to, reasons ranged from believing Trump would shake up the political sclerosis in Washington to Hillary's emails to nondescript pronouncements that it couldn't hurt to try someone different for a change. All this despite ample evidence of Trump's unsuitability.

I don't know how many of them voted again for Trump in 2020 — I haven't asked and don't plan to. But after watching testimony at the hearings so far, I have no tolerance for anyone who still supports him.

 

[DT]

Same.

My intolerance scale for Trump voters/supporters - where 1 is a complete pass, and 10 is I won't have __any__ engagement with you - went from about a 3 in 2016, to a 10 in 2020, and now, I'd need a scale those goes to 50.

There are pieces of shit around here still flying their Drump 2024 flags, loud and proud that they support a criminal and a traitor.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

Might be wishful thinking on my part, but I feel like Trump has outlived his purpose for both the party and thier voters. He's got too much baggage and there are plenty of other nutter contenders and the supreme court, the ultimate goal, is well into a mission accomplished streak.

I think it's fitting when his speaking engagements happen at fairgrounds. That's where most hasbeens go to die.

 

[DT]

I think it's fitting when his speaking engagements happen at fairgrounds. That's where most hasbeens go to die.

How dare you sir, my metal band from high school played the fairgrounds on a Sunday afternoon and it was our largest turnout ever.

Those 6 people got f***ing rocked!

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

How dare you sir, my metal band from high school played the fairgrounds on a Sunday afternoon and it was our largest turnout ever.

Those 6 people got f***ing rocked!

My band determined for the biggest audience at a fairground it’s best to play in the bathroom next to the beer garden.

 

[Runs For Fun]

These people are delusional

Oath Keepers will tell a jury they believed Donald Trump would turn them into his own personal militia on January 6

Elmer Stewart Rhodes will tell a DC jury he had a non-seditious reason to be at the Capitol: He thought Trump would federalize the Oath Keepers.

www.businessinsider.com

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

Even for those who supported Trump overthrowing the election by illegal means have to marvel at the level of incompetence on secrecy. At some point people go from being useful idiots to just being idiots and the actions of 1/6 are full of just idiots.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

These people are delusional

Oath Keepers will tell a jury they believed Donald Trump would turn them into his own personal militia on January 6

Elmer Stewart Rhodes will tell a DC jury he had a non-seditious reason to be at the Capitol: He thought Trump would federalize the Oath Keepers.

www.businessinsider.com

"There's no world in which it's remotely likely where the president of the United States would invoke the Insurrection Act," Nunn said, "and call on what is fundamentally just a social club of guys who have firearms."

 

[JayMysteri0]

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1542947623845478400/

THEY knew this!

Accounts of Trump angrily demanding to go to the Capitol on January 6 circulated in Secret Service over past year

Then-President Donald Trump angrily demanded to go to the US Capitol on January 6, 2021, and berated his protective detail when he didn't get his way, according to two Secret Service sources who say they heard about the incident from multiple agents, including the driver of the presidential SUV...

www.cnn.com

(CNN)Then-President Donald Trump angrily demanded to go to the US Capitol on January 6, 2021, and berated his protective detail when he didn't get his way, according to two Secret Service sources who say they heard about the incident from multiple agents, including the driver of the presidential SUV where it occurred.

The sources tell CNN that stories circulated about the incident -- including details that are similar to how former White House aide Cassidy Hutchinson described it to the House select committee investigating January 6 -- in the months immediately afterward the US Capitol attack and before she testified this week.

While the details from those who heard the accounts differ, the Secret Service sources say they were told an angry confrontation did occur. And their accounts align with significant parts of Hutchinson's testimony, which has been attacked as hearsay by Trump and his allies who also have tried to discredit her overall testimony.

Like Hutchinson, one source, a longtime Secret Service employee, told CNN that the agents relaying the story described Trump as "demanding" and that the former President said something similar to: "I'm the f**king President of the United States, you can't tell me what to do." The source said he originally heard that kind of language was used shortly after the incident.

"He had sort of lunged forward -- it was unclear from the conversations I had that he actually made physical contact, but he might have. I don't know," the source said. "Nobody said Trump assaulted him; they said he tried to lunge over the seat -- for what reason, nobody had any idea."

The employee said he'd heard about the incident multiple times as far back as February 2021 from other agents, including some who were part of the presidential protective detail during that time period but none of whom were involved in the incident.

 

[Eric]

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1542947623845478400/

THEY knew this!

Yep, lying for Trump is one thing but when you have to testify under oath shit gets real. This isn't Twitter.

Her testimony was just too credible for me not to believe this.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

Yep, lying for Trump is one thing but when you have to testify under oath shit gets real. This isn't Twitter.

Her testimony was just too credible for me not to believe this.

But lying to get on the supreme court is perfectly acceptable with zero consequences even if you're proven to be a liar in record time.

 

[Eric]

Whether or not the agent was being truthful about his statement to Hutchison is a fair question, was it exaggeration etc., but her account of it seemed very credible and we have to remember she was under oath as well.

 

[SuperMatt]

Whether or not the agent was being truthful about his statement to Hutchison is a fair question, was it exaggeration etc., but her account of it seemed very credible and we have to remember she was under oath as well.

It was very clear in her testimony that specific story was 2nd-hand. It was good of Liz Cheney to draw attention to that fact when she asked the question too.

 

[mac_in_tosh]

So, while the story of Trump lunging at the wheel is relatively minor (though attacking someone is not so much), this has been what MAGA world has latched onto to try to discredit Hutchinson's testimony.

Yes, as if that story turning out to be wrong somehow negates the fact that Trump led a violent mob attack on the Capitol (although now it seems that it wasn't wrong). Also in right wing media they are playing up a recording of Biden telling his son that he's in the clear following a NY Times story as somehow proof of something nefarious (maybe he's in the clear because he didn't do anything wrong) but of course they overlook all of Trump's cheating, lying, infidelity, lawlessness and incompetence.

 

[JayMysteri0]

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1543193984058757120/


One of the things to remember that have been factored in, is that the two Secret Service agents themselves have been considered 45 loyalists, and even labeled as "enablers". The story of what happened had been circulating amongst the Secret Service for a year, yet it didn't come up in his previous deposition. NOW he wants to go back, which I am sure they will welcome. You can bet they have new questions waiting once the agent takes the stand. Otherwise all other comments from the peanut gallery are from people who aren't willing to get on the stand & risk perjuring themselves, so they comment to whatever friendly press they can find.

Bobby Engel's testimony consistent with Cassidy Hutchinson—legal expert

Former White House aide Hutchinson told a panel that on January 6, 2021 Donald Trump was irate in the presidential limousine and demanded to be taken to the Capitol to join his supporters.

www.newsweek.com

A legal expert has suggested that key details from Cassidy Hutchinson's testimony claiming that Donald Trump lunged at a Secret Service agent's throat and grabbed the steering wheel of the presidential limousine in an attempt to join his supporters rioting at the Capitol can be corroborated by Secret Service agent Bobby Engel's previous testimony.

Hutchinson, a former aide to White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows, made a series of bombshell claims in Tuesday's hearings, including those surrounding Trump's actions soon after he delivered his speech at the Ellipse.

The Secret Service is reportedly willing to testify that the then-President did not reach for the steering wheel in the car or lunge at Engel, the head of Trump's Secret Service detail at the time.

Engel has already testified to the January 6 committee behind closed doors. Details of his deposition were previously reported by Politico, although it did not include a description of the alleged altercation.

Engel is said to have told the committee that he and Trump spoke about the former president's desire to go to the Capitol on January 6 but "took different views on the topic" and went back to the White House instead, according to Politico.

Ryan Goodman, professor of law at New York University School of Law, said it is "legally significant" that some of Engel's testimony is "consistent" with Hutchinson.

"Trump wanted to join at Capitol even as violence unfolded, Trump raised privately with Engel, Engel disagreed, drove back to WH," Goodman tweeted while highlighting key passages from the Politico report.

Hutchinson told the panel that Trump was irate in the back of the vehicle and demanded to be taken to the Capitol so he could join his supporters.

When he was told that they would be going back to the White House, Hutchinson revealed the former president "said something to the effect of 'I'm the f'ing president, take me up to the Capitol now.'"

Hutchinson said Trump reached up towards the front of the vehicle, known as "The Beast," to grab at the steering wheel.

Engel is said to have grabbed the former president by the arm and told him "sir, you need to take your hand off the steering wheel."

When Engel informed Trump that they were going back to the White House and not the Capitol where the insurrection was unfolding, Trump is alleged to have "used his free hand to lunge towards" Engel and reach for his clavicle area, according to Hutchinson, citing a conversation she had with Tony Ornato, a senior Secret Service official who was Trump's deputy chief of staff for operations.

The New York Times and Associated Press say both Engel and the driver are prepared to testify that Trump never lunged for the steering wheel. Ornato is also reported to be prepared to deny the claims from Hutchinson under oath.

Whether Hutchinson's second hand account is completely correct, takes a backseat to the fact that Engel's previous testimony backs up her basics. The issue is NOW the agent feels the need to update his story, about an event he left out initially. With what's already known about the agent, it does raise trust issues.

Journalist Patrick W. Watson suggested there are three possibilities why Engel did not discuss the alleged incident during his earlier testimony.

"1. He denied the limo incident. 2. He confirmed the limo incident. 3. The limo incident wasn't discussed," Watson tweeted.

"We can rule out #1, since the committee wouldn't leave Hutchinson open to being disproven. So it must be 2 or 3."

Trump himself denied the claims in a series of posts on Truth Social as Hutchinson was delivering her testimony,

"Her Fake story that I tried to grab the steering wheel of the White House Limousine in order to steer it to the Capitol Building is 'sick' and fraudulent, very much like the Unselect Committee itself—Wouldn't even have been possible to do such a ridiculous thing," Trump wrote.

Responding to the claims the Secret Service agents are willing to dispute Hutchinson's testimony, her lawyer Jody Hunt tweeted: "Hutchinson testified, under oath, and recounted what she was told. Those with knowledge of the episode also should testify under oath."

Mick Mulvaney, Trump's former Acting Chief of Staff, said he believes Hutchinson's testimony.

"My guess is that before this is over, we will be hearing testimony from Ornato, Engel, and Meadows," Mulvaney tweeted.

"This is explosive stuff. If Cassidy is making this up, they will need to say that. If she isn't they will have to corroborate. I know her. I don't think she is lying."

In a statement, the Secret Service said it has been cooperating with the Select Committee since its inception in spring 2021, and "will continue to do so, including by responding on the record to the Committee regarding the new allegations surfaced in today's testimony."

 

[GermanSuplex]

Until they testify under oath, it’s hot air. And if they contradict Hutchinson’s testimony, it means that someone is lying. She only claimed she was told the story - so either they told her that, or she’s lying. And if they testify she’s lying, then either she’s lying or they are. She has backed them into a corner and now they will be forced to testify against her, or corroborate her story.

I have a hard time believing this young woman interjected herself and testified live before the nation and perjured herself. She knew these people would attack her.

My guess is it all happened exactly as she said: she recounted the story she was told, and she was told the story because it happened.

Unless they testify otherwise, my money is on her. And even then, if they testify under oath it didn’t happen AND they didn’t tell her that it happened, then we will wait to see if they’re telling the truth or just being more loyal goons willing to go to jail for Trump. Which is unbelievable, but they wouldn’t be the first.

As it stands, she testified. Unless and until they contradict her under oath, I have no reason to discredit her testimony. It’s not that hard to believe anyways. He’s an erratic nimrod and he was orchestrating his last coup attempt.

 

[Yoused]

She has backed them into a corner and now they will be forced to testify against her, or corroborate her story.

"Sorry, that information is classified."