Kanye West, the media's predictable cycle, and the rise of reactionism

ronntaylor

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So are you saying 1 black person buying his wares is 1 too many?

IMO, he only mattered because white folks allowed him to matter, they have fixed the glitch...
There are assholes in every group, so I know there would be more than 1 Black person supporting his nonsense. When he said slavery was a choice he should have been kicked to the curb. When he said Harriet Tubman "never really freed the slaves" he should have been done. Then he pulled his stupid running for President bit that was really help Mango Turd suppress the Black vote.
 

diamond.g

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There are assholes in every group, so I know there would be more than 1 Black person supporting his nonsense. When he said slavery was a choice he should have been kicked to the curb. When he said Harriet Tubman "never really freed the slaves" he should have been done. Then he pulled his stupid running for President bit that was really help Mango Turd suppress the Black vote.
All that does is show you can say what you want about the black community (or blacks in general) and there isn't enough of them to materially affect your bottom line.
 

ronntaylor

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Kyrie Irving himself called the doc anti-semitic, yet his defenders...


And Jewish (and other) organizations have called for Amazon and others to not promote the film. Including The American Jewish Committee


I'm not paying for hate, so I was able to get a book excerpt for free via Amazon. The very beginning of the book is hate-filled with perennial anti-semitism = The Rothchilds!!!™, Jewish domination of the transatlantic slave trade, the holocaust is a hoax, etc.
 

ronntaylor

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LIVEFRMNYC

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There are assholes in every group, so I know there would be more than 1 Black person supporting his nonsense. When he said slavery was a choice he should have been kicked to the curb. When he said Harriet Tubman "never really freed the slaves" he should have been done. Then he pulled his stupid running for President bit that was really help Mango Turd suppress the Black vote.

That's is a dangerous game to play.

As a black man ....
Do I think Kanye was an idiot to say those things? YES.
Do I think there's some deeper meaning behind what he said, besides wanting attention? NO
Do I think he should have been finically or legally punished? NO
Did I react differ (mildly) cause Kanye's also black? NO

And I feel the same with what he spoke about the Jewish, or any other group. Except his "death con 3" tweet, that was just plain stupid.

When you have powerful/influential organizations like the ADL basically telling corporations that they are just as part of the problem if they don't drop certain individuals, that's a bad look viewed from the everyday person's perspective. Especially since everyone doesn't have the same views or see things in the same severity.

For example:
Instead of Nike discontinuing Kyrie's sneaker, why not let the consumer decide whether or not they will still purchase. By discontinuing it, this takes the power away from the people, and looks as if it's proving Kanye's point about the Jewish being in control. Optics is everything.
 

ronntaylor

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After discussing Ye and Irving and their anti-semitic nonsense, this subject was brought up with an acquaintance. A mutual acquaintance just shared this article from last month with a group. This in no way excuses these two knuckleheads, but it is very on-point (written and published before the midterms when many thought the GQP may take over both houses)


[ ... ] Jews, and those who love us (or care about hatred in general) have far bigger problems than Mr. Ye. One of them is Donald Trump. Another is the entire “MAGA” movement that currently rules the Republican Party that is quite possibly going to take over the world’s most powerful government. A third, though it is impossible to separate from the first two (which are, of course, impossible to separate from each other), is Tucker Carlson (who has been supporting Ye) and the alleged “news” network that broadcasts dog-whistle Jew hatred nightly to cable’s largest audience.
 

Cmaier

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After discussing Ye and Irving and their anti-semitic nonsense, this subject was brought up with an acquaintance. A mutual acquaintance just shared this article from last month with a group. This in no way excuses these two knuckleheads, but it is very on-point (written and published before the midterms when many thought the GQP may take over both houses)

I tend to disagree. It’s the casual anti-Semitism - the kind that some people defend as not being all that anti-Semitic (i.e. the kind where you get a lot of responses like “well, sure, that’s bad, but there really ARE a lot of jews in Hollywood and the music business, and…”) that cause the most problem for us Jews. The ”jews will not replace us” folks are easy to see, easily dismissed as repugnant, and have less day-to-day impact on our lives.
 

Eric

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I tend to disagree. It’s the casual anti-Semitism - the kind that some people defend as not being all that anti-Semitic (i.e. the kind where you get a lot of responses like “well, sure, that’s bad, but there really ARE a lot of jews in Hollywood and the music business, and…”) that cause the most problem for us Jews. The ”jews will not replace us” folks are easy to see, easily dismissed as repugnant, and have less day-to-day impact on our lives.
I cringed when Dave Chappell said that on SNL last week, there is just no excuse for this, period. It's like saying "I'm not racist... but". It's as if those defending it want to open up bigger conversation about Jews in Hollywood because Ye where's a white lives matter jacket while making anti semitic comments, in this case it should be an unequivocal denouncement.

IMO If one wants to have discussions about Jews, white, or black people and their social status' it's one thing, it just shouldn't be sparked by or the result of someone hateful like this.
 

ronntaylor

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The ”jews will not replace us” folks are easy to see, easily dismissed as repugnant, and have less day-to-day impact on our lives.
Not when they're spurred on by pols. Especially pols that share the same mentality while holding office, and won't speak out against them since "those people vote" (Mango directly quoted).
 

Cmaier

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Not when they're spurred on by pols. Especially pols that share the same mentality while holding office, and won't speak out against them since "those people vote" (Mango directly quoted).
Well, i can only speak as a jew about what affects me and my family. The pol-directed stuff is annoying, but it’s out in the open, and therefore a lot less problematic for us. The stuff that Chapelle says is a lot more insidious and damaging.
 
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Well, yeah, I mean does anyone excuse someone who says “Racism against black people is wrong, but black people do commit a lot of crime…”? Does that sound like anything other than an attempt to somehow justify prejudice? “It’s bad to kill unarmed black men, but there’s a reason why cops assume they’re up to no good”…

Because that’s what a lot of this “well, there ARE a lot of Jews in Hollywood” sounds like. Yes, that’s true, but what does it have to do with Kanye’s anti-Semitic ranting? Why are Jews in Hollywood a problem?
 

AG_PhamD

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As a Jewish person, I have a pretty high bar of what I consider “antisemitic”. I think there is a difference between jokes and stereotypes and statistics and actual antisemitism. There’s a number of definitions of antisemitism, but I believe it has to have a negative intent. And I, like frankly most Jews I know, recognize that the ADL pretty much will call everything antisemitism. But it’s kind of their purpose to bring attention to the antisemitism and they will exploit every opportunity to do so.

For example (I’m going to take a less widely recognized trope/conspiracy theory), I have no problem with people recognizing that there are many psychiatrists and psychologists are Jews. If you look at the origins of modern psychology, almost all the founders were Jewish- Freud, Klein, Frankl, Maslow, Kahneman, Erickson, etc. Seemingly everyone except Jung. (There are various studies that suggest Jewish cultural factors poised Jews to be in a position to more willingly explore psychology). Even today psychiatrists and psychologists are disproportionately Jewish compared to our very small population.

But the true antisemites, filled with hatred and vitriol, like to believe that Jews essentially “invented” the fields of psychiatric medicine in order to “control” the gentile population. Apparently people didn’t have emotions prior to Freud? I guess the joke’s on us (the Jews) because Jews are more likely than Christians to seek mental health treatment.

I see nothing wrong with Kanye recognizing there’s a lot of Jews in the music industry (I’m not convinced that’s even really the case, more likely it’s just disproportionate given the Jewish population size). But it’s like everything else he said about Jews- like specifically, not music industry execs, leeching off artists because they themselves are not creative. That’s a reworking very old trope. One routinely used by Nazis.

I do think it’s possible for Kanye to say antisemitic things without intending to be offensive, which is significant in my judgement. First of all, he’s clearly not mentally well and much of what he says is not exactly coherent. Secondly, I’d rather see instances like this be treated with a different tact, like informing him his beliefs are misguided, explain in detail why people would might see this as antisemitic, and here’s the information he should know. It’s very different than jumping the gun and saying he’s a Nazi and an antisemite who is maliciously spreading conspiracy theories. I just think people are complex and it’s possible for people to have misguided beliefs while also not being hateful.

That said, it’s apparent there were people who tried to guide Kanye. But there was also mob of people (probably mostly non-Jews) who came out with pitchforks. And he continued to double down on his statements. So I’m not surprised he lost his business deals.

As for Dave Chapelle, he’s a comedian. I don’t believe he was trying to mask hatred with comedy. He was making Jokes. Jokes often have some level of discomfort. I thought a lot of what he said was funny because I’m not taking what he is saying so seriously. That said, I wasn’t a big fan of his comment about how Jews cannot hold Black people responsible for antisemitism. I’m not sure anyone has ever said Black people are responsible for antisemitism. I think most people would say antisemites are responsible for antisemitism.

I think people took his comments about “Jewish control” out of context. I didn’t get the impression he was saying no, Jews actually control the world. He was highlighting how emotional people get at the mere recognition that Jews are disproportionately more successful in certain areas, which in itself doesn’t imply hatred. I suppose people hear what they want to hear though. Which is kind often his point.

I do think we could benefit though by not assuming the worst in people and in providing the opportunity to help people grow.
 

Yoused

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I have no problem with people recognizing that there are many psychiatrists and psychologists are Jews. … There are various studies that suggest Jewish cultural factors poised Jews to be in a position to more willingly explore psychology

Given that western culture is generally christian-dominated, it does make sense. The christian perspective is that humans are flawed and they need the jesus dude to heal what is wrong with them. Hence, to move the defect out of the soul into the organic space may be seen as an insult to the overwhelming power of the SoG. AIUI, jewish belief is less constricted by the same issues surrounding divinity and human badness, and so would be less of an inhibitor to such explorations.
 

Eric

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As for Dave Chapelle, he’s a comedian. I don’t believe he was trying to mask hatred with comedy. He was making Jokes. Jokes often have some level of discomfort. I thought a lot of what he said was funny because I’m not taking what he is saying so seriously. That said, I wasn’t a big fan of his comment about how Jews cannot hold Black people responsible for antisemitism. I’m not sure anyone has ever said Black people are responsible for antisemitism. I think most people would say antisemites are responsible for antisemitism.
Using comedy isn't and shouldn't be an excuse.

"Jokes about Jews and defending Ye's statements is cool, as long as you are joking and crack a laugh". < Think about that justification.
 

LIVEFRMNYC

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Yes, that’s true, but what does it have to do with Kanye’s anti-Semitic ranting? Why are Jews in Hollywood a problem?

When concerning Kanye’s statements. His take on desicion making in the music industry being controlled by Jews is not a new topic. Even rappers from the 80s and 90s spoke out about it. Just because Kanye went full on nuts and disrespectful, doesn’t exclude the right for others to speak on it without being called anti-semitic.

IMO, the core of this issue (which is not Kanye’s issue alone), is culture clash. Would the Jewish community feel comfortable if Muslims were the gatekeepers of their mainstream music? You don’t think heads would clash in meetings?

It really feels like the Jewish community is trying to sweep under the rug the fact that they do have a large amount of power in the music industry. Now, I can understand being mad at Kanye. But being mad at the actual topic itself, and damn near forbidding anyone to discuss it without screaming anti-Semitic, that a problem. And people are taking notice.

Even black leaders and organizations have went to far when trying to control the narrative. And it didn’t work out in their favor. I see the same thing going on here with the ADL and Jewish leaders.
 

Yoused

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It really feels like the Jewish community is trying to sweep under the rug the fact that they do have a large amount of power in the music industry.

Can you be more specific, though? There are various sects of Jews, who follow variant interpretations of Judaism. In fact, "Jewish" is an actual ethnicity: you can be a Jewish atheist or a Jewish Scientologist, because "Jewish" literally means that the person's mother is of the line of Hebrew descent.

It seems to me that the Jews who "run the music industry" are not anything like Hassidic Orthodox, as popular music would conflict with orthodox dogma and such people would not be signing off on some of the more offensive-to-them product. I think I would be less enthusiastic about a music industry dominated by Will Hays type christians, because then only gooey pablum would ever be approved for distribution.

The music industry has a lot of problems, but none of them can be tied to the putative excess of Jews in management.
 

Cmaier

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It really feels like the Jewish community is trying to sweep under the rug the fact that they do have a large amount of power in the music industry.

Congratulations. You are an anti-Semite.

Thought experiment:

There are lots of people with brown hair in the music industry. Why are we sweeping this under the rug? Doesn’t it need to be discussed?
There are lots of Christians in the music industry. Why are we sweeping this under the rug? Doesn’t it need to be discussed?

Sigh.

It’s a shame that such a lovely community here is now polluted with this garbage.
 

LIVEFRMNYC

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Can you be more specific, though? There are various sects of Jews, who follow variant interpretations of Judaism. In fact, "Jewish" is an actual ethnicity: you can be a Jewish atheist or a Jewish Scientologist, because "Jewish" literally means that the person's mother is of the line of Hebrew descent.

It seems to me that the Jews who "run the music industry" are not anything like Hassidic Orthodox, as popular music would conflict with orthodox dogma and such people would not be signing off on some of the more offensive-to-them product. I think I would be less enthusiastic about a music industry dominated by Will Hays type christians, because then only gooey pablum would ever be approved for distribution.

The music industry has a lot of problems, but none of them can be tied to the putative excess of Jews in management.

You make a great point. But there’s still cultural and ideology similarities. I’m not saying everyone of any group is all the same, nor do I view the majority of Jewish strict like Hassidic. But it's more the lack of knowledge or thought about the black hiphop culture that's the issue. Most Caucasian Jewish people I know don't want to be referred to as white, rather they want to be referred as Jewish. And I worked closely with that community for over a decade in Brooklyn. So when someone points out, the majority of Jewish people runs an industry, that's just status quo labeling, not anti Jewish.

Note: I'm not speaking about Kanye, he went of the deep end.


Congratulations. You are an anti-Semite.

Thought experiment:

There are lots of people with brown hair in the music industry. Why are we sweeping this under the rug? Doesn’t it need to be discussed?
There are lots of Christians in the music industry. Why are we sweeping this under the rug? Doesn’t it need to be discussed?

Sigh.

It’s a shame that such a lovely community here is now polluted with this garbage.

Do brown hair people hold the same cultural and ideology similarities? I didn’t think so. :rolleyes:

You think some non-Christian people haven't pointed out when their kids were being force to say "under God" in pledge of allegiance in public schools?

There's always going to be cultural and religious clashes, and NOBODY likes it when the majority of ANY one group of people is in control.

But continue to call me anti-semitic. You're just proving my point.
 

Renzatic

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Do brown hair people hold the same cultural and ideology similarities? I didn’t think so.

Look up the list top earning CEOs in America today. Of the top ten, two of them are of Indian descent.

Don't you think it's a little strange how, right now, as of writing 20% of our top earning executives are of non-European descent? Could it all be a coincidence? Could it be due to Indians seem to have a higher likelihood to land tech sector jobs due to cultural reasons? Maybe it's a conspiracy, and this is but the first step towards them invading our proud country, and killing us all with their spicy food.

Or maybe I'm just making shit up, and wording it in such a way that it sounds more scandalous than it actually is. Saying "20% of our 10 highest paid CEOs are..." does sound more scary than "there are also these two Indian dudes on that list." It's much the same as claiming that X amount of Jews are in the higher echelons of the music industry. You're taking a group of otherwise random people and building a narrative around them based upon one common thread they share. Hell, there's a lot of Irish in Boston too. What does that mean?
 
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LIVEFRMNYC

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Look up the list top earning CEOs in America today. Of the top ten, two of them are of Indian descent.

Don't you think it's a little strange how, right now, as of writing 20% of our top earning executives are of non-European descent? Could it all be a coincidence? Could it be due to Indians seem to have a higher likelihood to land tech sector jobs due to cultural reasons? Maybe it's a conspiracy, and this is but the first step towards them invading our proud country, and killing us all with their spicy food.

Or maybe I'm just making shit up, and wording it in such a way that it sounds more scandalous than it actually is. Saying "20% of our 10 highest paid CEOs are..." does sound more scary than "there are also these two Indian dudes on that list." It's much the same as claiming that X amount of Jews are in the higher echelons of the music industry. You're taking a group of other random people and building a narrative around them based upon one common thread they share. Hell, there's a lot of Irish in Boston too. What does that mean?

These artists know who's the decision makers. Who's at the meetings, who decides which content gets released, who decides which content doesn't get released, etc and etc. I highly doubt plenty of these rappers in the music industry are calling out the Jewish execs, because they are dealing with Irish Catholic execs.



This video below is just a very small sample of the problem, that many of Hiphop fans want changed. Lyor Cohen is one of the most influential hiphop execs in the music business. But a large portion of the black community has an issue with the worst hiphop content being pushed into mainstream. And BTW: Blacks call out black music execs and artists too, that participate in the same manner.

 
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