Let’s Talk Religion and Faith

Chew Toy McCoy

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I just finished watching the limited series Midnight Mass on Netflix and felt it needed to be discussed here.

How can you one have such faith that they are willing to believe something is what they want it to be, despite it not being that thing? The priest in the show wanted so badly for the vampire to be the angel of god that he didn’t see it for what it was until it was too late.

I watched some interviews with the cast and Mike Flannigan and they made sure to never refer to the angel as a vampire or even vampires in the general sense to further drive the underlying meaning home. I read a recent psychology article that compared religious fundamentalism to parasites that removes the host’s ability to think freely and critically while removing them from the rest of society to insure its survival.

I watched a movie review of Midnight Mass and the reviewer was raised in what he later determined was a cult and he said no other movie or series he’s seen depicted his own experience so accurately, sans the “angel”.
 

Chew Toy McCoy

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Not looking for a big argument about religion, but I’d sure like to see a world without it. Try it on for awhile, see how it fits.

Reminds me of a study I read about a couple months ago that concluded atheists are more empathetic, compassionate, and inclusive than Christians.

My bible thumping uncle once in a rare instance of self reflection admitted to me that if it was definitively proven there was no God then he would feel he wasted a lot of time and self righteousness, and missed out on life experiences. I believe on that last part he means he would have hooked up with a lot more ladies casually. Of course he could also mean he wants to be a serial killer but God said no.
 

Alli

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I read a recent psychology article that compared religious fundamentalism to parasites that removes the host’s ability to think freely and critically while removing them from the rest of society to insure its survival.
I like the sound of that.
 

TBL

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Not looking for a big argument about religion, but I’d sure like to see a world without it. Try it on for awhile, see how it fits.
I think it is a human need for us to believe in something bigger than ourselves, but that thing doesn’t need to be religion per se. One of the most positive aspects of religion is the sense of community it helps create and support (and it’s plainly evident the problems that follow from a lack of community support and belonging). I have always believed that the tendency toward religion is a human universal and if we got rid of it, something else would take its place (such as a charismatic leader or political ideology). I wish religion could create that sense of community and purpose without also creating the situation where those who believe differently are enemies who need to be converted/vanquished. But that’s just humanity, I guess. 🤷‍♂️
 
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Huntn

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Clever, but not what I said at all.

Up here.
I’m surprised you did not challenge some part of the rest of my post. :) However I admit to not knowing what you are, theist, agnostic, atheist, other.

@Alli regarding religion: they are willing to believe something is what they want it to be, despite it not being that thing?
You: I've not seen the show, but how is the bolded unique to religion/faith? It seems to me to be a part of human nature.
Me: I agree religion is a product of human nature.

In conclusion, in reference to religion: People are willing to believe something, what they want it to be. But that is not unique to religion, yet it is a part of religion, and both of which are manifestations of human nature.
 

Alli

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In conclusion, in reference to religion: People are willing to believe something, what they want it to be. But that is not unique to religion, yet it is a part of religion, and both of which are manifestations of human nature.
As civilization advances and things are explained scientifically, do we still need religion?
 
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Huntn

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Well, I would disagree with that statement, since plenty of problems are caused by the unorganized, fanatical belief of a single person. There are certainly problems that can be caused by religious belief, but they are not all due to its organization.
It due to their masses which are organized and have power to flex by virtue of the numbers.
 

tobefirst

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Can you be a person of faith without belonging to a wider group of people sharing your faith? With few exceptions, most wars have started over religion.
If you had said "most wars," I wouldn't have taken (as much) umbrage. But that's not what you said. You said, "The fact is, it’s only organized religion that ever causes any problem."

Only...ever...any.
 

tobefirst

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I’m surprised you did not challenge some part of the rest of my post. :) However I admit to not knowing what you are, theist, agnostic, atheist, other.

@Alli regarding religion: they are willing to believe something is what they want it to be, despite it not being that thing?
You: I've not seen the show, but how is the bolded unique to religion/faith? It seems to me to be a part of human nature.
Me: I agree religion is a product of human nature.

In conclusion, in reference to religion: People are willing to believe something, what they want it to be. But that is not unique to religion, yet it is a part of religion, and both of which are manifestations of human nature.
But I wasn't at all saying that religion is a product of human nature. What you are agreeing with, as you write in your last sentence, is that it isn't unique to religion, but above you play like I said religion is a product of human nature. Again, clever, but not what I said.
 
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As civilization advances and things are explained scientifically, do we still need religion?
Well, the answer seems that a lot of us do. Whatever comforts us, as long as it does not become a projection of power and control Is ok.

I’ve always admitted that while I can’t say I sense spirituality, there are certain things like thinking about the purpose of life, if there is a purpose, that there should be a purpose, including achieving consciousness, and the ability to analyze one’s existence that it’s not just a purely chance and meaningless occurance. I rebel against this notion. Plus I get all warm and fuzzy when I think there something more. It’s too real of a feeling to ignore. ;)

And look at it this way with eternity to work with, we achieved consciousness as an entity at least once, maybe more than once, maybe continuously, maybe there is a good place. But maybe is a long way from fact… except there is this:

I may have to break out LOTR :D
 
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Huntn

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But I wasn't at all saying that religion is a product of human nature. What you are agreeing with, as you write in your last sentence, is that it isn't unique to religion, but above you play like I said religion is a product of human nature. Again, clever, but not what I said.
What else can it be a product of? We invented it or if you prefer we sense it. The mistake is making it fact. That would be a leap of faith, and that’s not enough of a basis to force it on people (not an accusation).

Listen, if there is God, if there is truth we will all not be able but see the truth, and we have to see it on our own, not be forced to comply with something unseen and unfelt, because some do gooder thinks it is their duty to beat us into submission into seeing their God. It just would not work that way. That’s along the same lines as being a good Christian because Hell is waiting for you otherwise. A very illogical human natured concept. ;)
 
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Thomas Veil

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I'm with those of you who declare themselves agnostic. I think God is just another one of the many constructs we've created throughout history to explain that which we don't understand. That doesn't mean, however, that I'm so brazen as to think we have proof that God does not exist. We just don't know, and never will.

Well, I would disagree with that statement, since plenty of problems are caused by the unorganized, fanatical belief of a single person. There are certainly problems that can be caused by religious belief, but they are not all due to its organization.
That's true, but when I think of your latter example, I think of the one lone person with a mental health issue who believes God told him or her to murder someone. When I think of organized religion, I think of all the laws, the genocides, the crusades etc. which have killed people throughout history.

I don't have quite the same problem with faith. If faith is what brings peace to you, more power to you.

Reminds me of a study I read about a couple months ago that concluded atheists are more empathetic, compassionate, and inclusive than Christians.
If you really do believe that the greatest commandment is to love each other as you love yourself, then I long ago came to the conclusion that non-believers were better adherents to that rule, for they practice what they do not out of fear of some kind of eternal damnation, but out of a belief to which they came on their own that this is the only true way to coexist.

I don't think any just god would ever deliberately condemn people to eternally burning in hell for not worshiping him.
Yeah, I don't think any god would be so imperious as to demand that sort of adulation. Humans, on the other hand...

3636.jpg
 
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I'm with those of you who declare themselves agnostic. I think God is just another one of the many constructs we've created throughout history to explain that which we don't understand. That doesn't mean, however, that I'm so brazen as to think we have proof that God does not exist. We just don't know, and never will.


That's true, but when I think of your latter example, I think of the one lone person with a mental health issue who believes God told him or her to murder someone. When I think of organized religion, I think of all the laws, the genocides, the crusades etc. which have killed people throughout history.

I don't have quite the same problem with faith. If faith is what brings peace to you, more power to you.


If you really do believe that the greatest commandment is to love each other as you love yourself, then I long ago came to the conclusion that non-believers were better adherents to that rule, for they practice what they do not out of fear of some kind of eternal damnation, but out of a belief to which they came on their own that this is the only true way to coexist.


Yeah, I don't think any god would be so imperious as to demand that sort of adulation. Humans, on the other hand...

3636.jpg
We can honestly say we’ve seen one face of Beelzebub as a human manifestation. While I’m not a fan of Christianity, I really do like the idea of the Devil as the darkness that resides in the human species, in the human sprit, ready to arise under the right circumstance and provocation. There is really no other way to describe millions choosing such an obvious loser. It’s sad and terrifying. Option 2 to void the religious aspect would be to identify some Extreme Mental Maladjustment like insecure, corrupted, narcissistic, sociopath, but still some would describe it as evil.
 

Alli

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If you had said "most wars," I wouldn't have taken (as much) umbrage. But that's not what you said. You said, "The fact is, it’s only organized religion that ever causes any problem."

Only...ever...any.
Let’s face it. There is no such thing as disorganized religion.
When I think of organized religion, I think of all the laws, the genocides, the crusades etc. which have killed people throughout history.
My thoughts exactly.
 

Edd

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We can honestly say we’ve seen one face of Beelzebub as a human manifestation. While I’m not a fan of Christianity, I really do like the idea of the Devil as the darkness that resides in the human species, in the human sprit, ready to arise under the right circumstance and provocation. There is really no other way to describe millions choosing such an obvious loser. It’s sad and terrifying. Option 2 to void the religious aspect would be to identify some Extreme Mental Maladjustment like insecure, corrupted, narcissistic, sociopath, but still some would describe it as evil.
Trump is undoubtedly evil. I would expect the Devil to come at us more sophisticated, like Omen 2. Not in such a fat, stupid package.
 

tobefirst

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Let’s face it. There is no such thing as disorganized religion.
Any problem ever is caused by organized religion? You really believe that? Do you understand how absolute and all encompassing your statement was? And how, as a person of faith, how insulting that could be? If you don't, I don't know what to tell you.
 
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Huntn

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Trump is undoubtedly evil. I would expect the Devil to come at us more sophisticated, like Omen 2. Not in such a fat, stupid package.
Except look how successful this crass sinister dope is with STUPID. It's mind boggling. 😷
 

TBL

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Any problem ever is caused by organized religion? You really believe that? Do you understand how absolute and all encompassing your statement was? And how, as a person of faith, how insulting that could be? If you don't, I don't know what to tell you.

Hmm. That's not how I read that comment. I read it is "religion only causes problems when it's organized" (something I disagreed with and explained) not "organized religion is the cause of all problems".
 
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