Let’s Talk Religion and Faith

Hrafn

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Here's my main issue: religion, like manners is supposed to ease frictions between us. But, both get corrupted by the practitioners until they are the _reason_ for the frictions. Jesus said "turn the other cheek". What we see here is "you hurt my feeeeeewwwwings". Follow Jesus or don't.

So: "Blessed are the cheesemakers" And, all makers of dairy products!
 

tobefirst

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Hmm. That's not how I read that comment. I read it is "religion only causes problems when it's organized" (something I disagreed with and explained) not "organized religion is the cause of all problems".
Huh. I see what you’re saying. Thank you for explaining. I read the emphasis differently than you did, obviously. As such, @Alli, I wish to extend my apologies for misinterpreting. I’m deeply sorry, and a bit embarrassed.
 

Alli

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Any problem ever is caused by organized religion? You really believe that? Do you understand how absolute and all encompassing your statement was? And how, as a person of faith, how insulting that could be? If you don't, I don't know what to tell you.

Huh. I see what you’re saying. Thank you for explaining. I read the emphasis differently than you did, obviously. As such, @Alli, I wish to extend my apologies for misinterpreting. I’m deeply sorry, and a bit embarrassed.
No harm no foul. I do tend to be blunt though, so often misinterpreted.

I also have a long and involved relationship with religion, and understanding that helps. It all started when I was expelled from Baptist Missionary school in Taichung at the end of my 8th grade year. I overcompensated by becoming very observant in my late teens early 20s. Fortunately, that didn’t fit in with any society outside of a large metro area, so I came out of it early. What didn’t help was moving here, where white people tend to introduce themselves with “hi, my name’s Lulu. What church do y’all attend?”
 
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Huntn

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Priests and Your Kids Vol2: 3000 priests involved, the guys some of us called Father and confessed our sins to… 🔥 surprise! 🔥


One thing this proves imo, celibacy as a standard for human beings is a unrealistic and bankrupt standard thought up by a religious organization arguably for self interest and profit. We don’t need our employees distracted by having a normal life, plus I think, not sure, we get their inheritance when they pass.
 
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Herdfan

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I was raised in the church, but have never really had faith. It just never came to me like it does some others. I know this disappointed my mom, but you can't make yourself believe something you don't believe. It is what it is.

That said, I also respect those who do believe, even if I think they can be a bit crazy. We now know enough about how the universe was formed to know it didn't happen in 6 days. Some will say it is a metaphorical 6-days, but there are those who insist it happened in 6 earth days. Nope.

I know my daughter missed out on some things by not going to church because we do live on the edge of the bible belt and it is a social hub. But knowing her, I doubt she would have had faith either. She see things too literally to believe.

Also, I think church goers are some of the most judgemental people you will ever meet. Don't go one week and there is always that "sweet" little old lady who has to come up and say "We missed you last week". Bull. You didn't miss me, you just wanted to let me know that you knew I wasn't there.

But I know people who won't buy a car without discussing it with some people from the church. Some who won't go out to eat at certain restaurants because they "serve alcohol". And it won't necessarily be because they are opposed, but what if someone from the church saw them leaving and assumed they were in there drinking. Seriously, that is no way to live. I remember being out in a bar in Myrtle Beach and this kid I knew saw me and turned white as a sheet. He came up and said, you didn't see me and I didn't see you. My reply was "my mom knows where I am and what I am doing". He really didn't know how to process that. Sad.
 
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Huntn

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I was raised in the church, but have never really had faith. It just never came to me like it does some others. I know this disappointed my mom, but you can't make yourself believe something you don't believe. It is what it is.

That said, I also respect those who do believe, even if I think they can be a bit crazy. We now know enough about how the universe was formed to know it didn't happen in 6 days. Some will say it is a metaphorical 6-days, but there are those who insist it happened in 6 earth days. Nope.

I know my daughter missed out on some things by not going to church because we do live on the edge of the bible belt and it is a social hub. But knowing her, I doubt she would have had faith either. She see things too literally to believe.

Also, I think church goers are some of the most judgemental people you will ever meet. Don't go one week and there is always that "sweet" little old lady who has to come up and say "We missed you last week". Bull. You didn't miss me, you just wanted to let me know that you knew I wasn't there.

But I know people who won't buy a car without discussing it with some people from the church. Some who won't go out to eat at certain restaurants because they "serve alcohol". And it won't necessarily be because they are opposed, but what if someone from the church saw them leaving and assumed they were in there drinking. Seriously, that is no way to live. I remember being out in a bar in Myrtle Beach and this kid I knew saw me and turned white as a sheet. He came up and said, you didn't see me and I didn't see you. My reply was "my mom knows where I am and what I am doing". He really didn't know how to process that. Sad.
Some parallel with my back story. :) I joined the church because it was more or less expected, but not from my parents, from the social circle at the church, and the entire time I was wanting to believe, hedging my bets, waiting for some revelation, some harbinger of the truth of God as expressed by the Presbyterian Church, and I, it never happened. :unsure:
 
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Huntn

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… I’ll add this, if there is a God that matters, we’ll have no choice but to see it, if we need to see it, and if we don’t see it you can blame the deity.

And we will never have to stoop to imagining a deity that rules over our existence because we imagine we might be punished after the fact. The entire idea is suspect, flawed, and oh so human. Being a good rule follower with the threat of punishment, means NOTHING. You can only be meaningfully judged by what you do because of your own volition, not what you do when being threatened.

Therefore, by extension the Earth Simulator is a place where maybe you can evolve, learn, and maybe, just maybe end up being a better entity. Or maybe it’s a train wreck for this cycle. ;) :unsure:
 

Chew Toy McCoy

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A couple of my questions are why do so many churches lean heavy on negativity and so many people feel that's a good group to belong to? It sounds like they aren't offering any real-world solutions, only scapegoats to blame for their problems or the state of the world.
 

Alli

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A couple of my questions are why do so many churches lean heavy on negativity and so many people feel that's a good group to belong to? It sounds like they aren't offering any real-world solutions, only scapegoats to blame for their problems or the state of the world.
Because religion is still very much a crutch.
 
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Huntn

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A couple of my questions are why do so many churches lean heavy on negativity and so many people feel that's a good group to belong to? It sounds like they aren't offering any real-world solutions, only scapegoats to blame for their problems or the state of the world.
I remember growing up in the Presbyterian church, in the DC suburbs. It was pretty mild, no hellfire and damnation sermons, mostly be good and help your fellow human being. There was no discussion of racial or gay issues, and this was well before LGBT came into widespread recognition. Abstinence until marriage was taught as the only birth control. Looking back on it, it was being taught to be good in a straight jacket. Now It’s been a long time since I’ve been to the Presbyterian Church so I can’t say how far they have come.

But over the decades, I have acquired a very specific feeling about many ”conservative” church groups that have turned into cults, cults of selfishness, intolerance, ignorance, corrupting, picking, choosing, fabricating, the reported teachings of Jesus, and you can choke on my way or the highway, going as far as undermining the Constitution of the US, abandoning democracy, destroying religious freedom (if we let them) and turning the US into a corrupt fascist, theist state, undermining elections, depressing voting rights, if they can, All For God’s Glory. Anyone think this is an exaggeration?

When you see religious organizations supporting the likes of Trump, you have your answer regarding corruption, and this is without a doubt. Ironically these religious groups make a huge deal about saving fetuses, but don’t give a damn about them once they emerge from the womb, as if this pleases their warped God.

Reagarding your question, negativity equals sin, and that is the grand manipulation, historically and today. Humans are flawed, and there is an illusion involved with sin, because we can’t agree about what sin is or the limits of sin. But we have some inspired individuals ready to define it for us, and I’m not talking about easily recognized wrong doing like stealing (exemption: stealing to keep from starving) or murder. Examples: being gay, transgender, or having sex without God’s permission, sex, a biological imperative, if enjoyed is reduced to sin (mostly an outright sham these days) and even dancing (historically) in some corners when viewed with a sexual lense. Pretty twisted. 👀

So as a broad generalization, religion pretends it is about “being good” but it’s more about control, power, and profit, because there are those among us who not only know human beings are flawed, but we (many of us ) are scared of death, and gullible, hence the hooks are there to rope the sheep in and sheer them. Some are worse than others, but they are all about money, some worse than others.

And even though it’s a fantasy, you can’t ignore the corruption of teachings, the picking and choosing, the ignore what they want and fabricate, and exaggerate whatever pleases them, including, ignoring or falsely stating the teachings of Jesus, such as don’t judge, don’t scorn, be tolerant, etc. And the bottom of the barrel, the most deluded is embracing the Devil, while calling him their savior., and thinking you are a Christian. I just finished Midnight Mass and although fiction boy did that resonate, when religion goes off the rails.
 
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JayMysteri0

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Yeeeeeeaaaaaaahhhhhhh, this will end well...


The MAGA-loving religious sect that worships with AR-15s has purchased a 130-acre property on a mountain in eastern Tennessee to serve as a “training center” and holy ground for its devoted, gun-toting followers, VICE News has learned.

The latest property acquisition is more evidence that Pastor Hyung Jin “Sean” Moon, a fervent conspiracy theorist and son of an accused cult leader, is determined to expand his reach into the American Heartland.

Moon’s congregation, Rod of Iron Ministries, also known as The World Peace and Unification Sanctuary, is a gun-centric spinoff of the much larger Unification Church, founded by his late father, the Rev. Sun Myung Moon, a self-proclaimed messiah and businessman whose followers were famously known as “Moonies.” The younger Moon, who also goes by “The Second King,” split from the main church amid a dramatic falling-out with his mother about who, between the two of them, was the rightful heir to his father’s empire.

In 2017, Moon founded his church in Newfoundland, Pennsylvania, siphoning off hundreds of followers from the main congregation who were willing to make the seemingly radical leap of incorporating high-powered rifles into their spiritual life. He did this with the backing of his older brother, Kook-jin “Justin” Moon, the CEO of Kahr Arms, a gun manufacturing company headquartered nearby. In recent years, he’s made headlines for recreating the mass wedding ceremonies that his father’s church was famous for, with the addition of AR-15s.

Sean and Justin Moon, plus other senior church officials, were also at the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6, and posted videos of themselves emerging from clouds of tear gas. Sean has also courted fringe MAGA-world figures; this weekend, the annual Rod of Iron Freedom Fest at the Kahr Arms headquarters in Greeley will include speakers such as former Trump adviser Steve Bannon, ex–NRA spokesperson Dana Loesch, far-right Proud Boy ally Joey Gibson, and GOP congressional candidate Teddy Daniels.
wtf-what-the-fuck.gif
 
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Huntn

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I wasn't raised religious, so I just look at it from a distance, but it all just looks like total dishonest garbage to me. I have contempt for it.
There are some positive tenants but in the big picture, in the power, wealth, and control, they get lost. When you read the Bible it is a pseudo history book, coming from multiple authors who the Catholic Church (men) decided these writings are the word of God, when in actuality it’s just the words of some other men that they like because it resonated with them.

Unfortunately actual rules reported as directly from the diety are few and far between. Many of these parables require that the reader interpret and make up their own rules based on some event, reported as an act of God.

The Old Testament is the harshest, out of touch, yet it’s still there in the Bible, but mostly ignored today except by the hard core retro believers. A man lies with a man is worthy of death, the ”effeminate” (man) won’t make it to heaven because God only likes manly men, and apparently God is good with some girl on girl action. ;) The irony here is that this mostly represents that the world 2000 years ago in the Middle East, according to men, revolved around men. Women were basically reduced to property, incubators, sources of pleasure, so who cares what they do as long as they please us. :unsure:


And anti- abortion? This is really a stretch, an issue completely conjured up in minds of radical sheep because abortion is not a subject in the Bible, but there is a lot of pre-natal death, and God seems to not care so much about the unborn, besides he said breath is synonymous with life, among other things.

Reported teachings of Jesus
  1. Everyone can make it to heaven, the good place, but unfortunately you have to believe in God (whatever that is).
  2. Treat others as you would have them treat you.
  3. The greatest Commandment is love God and love your neighbor. You become a goid neighbor when you help your neighbors. The Good Samaritan Parable.
  4. Sin seperates people from God, is forgivable, and that people should forgive others.

Color coded from garbage to good morality imo.

The Ten Commandments
1. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
2. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
3. Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
4. Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

5. Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee. (It depends on who your Mother and Father are, are they worthy of being honored?)
6. Thou shalt not kill.
7. Thou shalt not commit adultery.
8. Thou shalt not steal.
9. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
10. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.
 
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Hrafn

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There are some positive tenants but in the big picture, in the power, wealth, and control, they get lost. When you read the Bible it is a pseudo history book, coming from multiple authors who the Catholic Church (men) decided these writings are the word of God, when in actuality it’s just the words of some other men that they like because it resonated with them.

Unfortunately actual rules reported as directly from the diety are few and far between. Many of these parables require that the reader interpret and make up their own rules based on some event, reported as an act of God.

The Old Testament is the harshest, out of touch, yet it’s still there in the Bible, but mostly ignored today except by the hard core retro believers. A man lies with a man is worthy of death, the ”effeminate” (man) won’t make it to heaven because God only likes manly men, and apparently God is good with some girl on girl action. ;) The irony here is that this mostly represents that the world 2000 years ago in the Middle East, according to men, revolved around men. Women were basically reduced to property, incubators, sources of pleasure, so who cares what they do as long as they please us. :unsure:


And anti- abortion? This is really a stretch, an issue completely conjured up in minds of radical sheep because abortion is not a subject in the Bible, but there is a lot of pre-natal death, and God seems to not care so much about the unborn, besides he said breath is synonymous with life, among other things.

Reported teachings of Jesus
  1. Everyone can make it to heaven, the good place, but unfortunately you have to believe in God (whatever that is).
  2. Treat others as you would have them treat you.
  3. The greatest Commandment is love God and love your neighbor. You become a goid neighbor when you help your neighbors. The Good Samaritan Parable.
  4. Sin seperates people from God, is forgivable, and that people should forgive others.

Color coded from garbage to good morality imo.

The Ten Commandments
1. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
2. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
3. Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
4. Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

5. Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee. (It depends on who your Mother and Father are, are they worthy of being honored?)
6. Thou shalt not kill.
7. Thou shalt not commit adultery.
8. Thou shalt not steal.
9. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
10. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.
In my tl:dr defense, I both read your post and agree. I was channeling my inner merkin.

I don't understand how someone claiming to be a follower of Jesus can pull the kind of ish our right wing brethren have no issues with.
 

Herdfan

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The Old Testament is the harshest, out of touch, yet it’s still there in the Bible, but mostly ignored today except by the hard core retro believers. A man lies with a man is worthy of death, the ”effeminate” (man) won’t make it to heaven because God only likes manly men, and apparently God is good with some girl on girl action. ;) The irony here is that this mostly represents that the world 2000 years ago in the Middle East, according to men, revolved around men. Women were basically reduced to property, incubators, sources of pleasure, so who cares what they do as long as they please us. :unsure:

I completely missed this in Sunday School. :ROFLMAO:

I went to a Baptist Church as a kid, but it wasn't an Evangelical or Freewill one. More like the people that got kicked out of the Methodist Church down the street. My Sunday School class was taught by a classmate's dad. As you noted, mostly it was be kind to other people, don't have sex, don't drink or smoke. Not fire and brimstone at all.

I did learn one thing: Never take just one Baptist fishing, they will drink all your beer. :)
 
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