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Pumbaa

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Guardians of the Galaxy:
After re-watching Avengers:End Game, where is Gamora?


During A:EG we see Gamora told by Nebula about her future including a future with both her sister and The Guardians which she had not yet experienced. And we see her come around offering to help Nebula and making a derogatory comment about Peter Quill. So where is she after the dust settles in End Game?

This article says when the movie disk was released (which I don’t own) it includes a deleted scene from the movie of Gamora walking away after the fight the one who never got a chance to develop a relationship with Peter Quill. And it speculates that this will be part of the plot in the next Chapter, Quill looking for her.
Yeah, I'll do you one better, who is Gamora?

Sounds like a plausible plot. On the other hand, with the Guardians of the Galaxy pretty much everything could be that. Looking forward to the next movie in any case.
 

Huntn

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LOKI LIVES! :)

9CFB5C90-BEEB-4C16-BA8D-0856868EEEA2.jpeg
June 11​


How, you ask, you saw him die again in End Game. Actually he might have died that time. Do you remember in End Game when Stark, Hulk, Ant Man, and Capt America go back to NYC to grab 3 Infinity Stones? And do you remember Hulk bursting from a stairway and knocking a briefcase carried by Stark, it pops open and out slides the Space Stone across the floor stopping at Loki’s feet (while he is in custody), and he disappears with it?


Short Time Travel Detour Gripe- Famous Banner line: Time doesn’t work that way... Just forget Loki dissapearing, plus Stark and Capt America go further back to steal the Tesseract at an earlier tone from Stark’s Father. Don’t think how that would have scrambled the time line, lol! Just put it out of your pretty little head. ;)

Back on topic, Loki disappearing during this trip back in time is his path forward. This Disney+ Series takes place after End Game.

 

JayMysteri0

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LOKI LIVES! :)



How, you ask, you saw him die again in End Game. Actually he might have died that time. Do you remember in End Game when Stark, Hulk, Ant Man, and Capt America go back to NYC to grab 3 Infinity Stones? And do you remember Hulk bursting from a stairway and knocking a briefcase carried by Stark, it pops open and out slides the Space Stone across the floor stopping at Loki’s feet (while he is in custody), and he disappears with it?


Short Time Travel Detour Gripe- Famous Banner line: Time doesn’t work that way... Just forget Loki dissapearing, plus Stark and Capt America go further back to steal the Tesseract at an earlier tone from Stark’s Father. Don’t think how that would have scrambled the time line, lol! Just put it out of your pretty little head. ;)

Back on topic, Loki disappearing during this trip back in time is his path forward. This Disney+ Series takes place after End Game.

Actually that is the point of the series, Loki "broke" time by picking up the tesseract. So it is a continuation of Banner's line. They may try to address SOME of the issues they caused with their version of time with the series.

I'm not sure if it's Loki's path forward, but it is a chance to give the many Loki fans the "devious" version they prefer again.

Hopefully the pacing issues will be a little better than Falcon & Winter Soldier since it's 6 episodes as well.
 
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Huntn

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Yeah, I'll do you one better, who is Gamora?

Sounds like a plausible plot. On the other hand, with the Guardians of the Galaxy pretty much everything could be that. Looking forward to the next movie in any case.
We witnessed a 2 movie arc where a romance developed between Quill and Gamora. This is an opportunity to change Gamora’s future into a split from the Quill/Gamora romance with many fans not wanting that. I remember this sensation from the original Spider-Man with Peter Parker and Mary Jane Watson. :D
 

Pumbaa

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We witnessed a 2 movie arc where a romance developed between Quill and Gamora. This is an opportunity to change Gamora’s future into a split from the Quill/Gamora romance with many fans not wanting that. I remember this sensation from the original Spider-Man with Peter Parker and Mary Jane Watson. :D
Many fans wants the dork to end up with the one who’s way out of the dork’s league. We want to feel like there is hope for us too. Preferably without getting bitten by radioactive spiders or abducted by aliens. Or maybe that’s just me.

That said, there is so much potential adventures to be had in the galaxy. No need to stay stuck in the past. Or maybe Gamora is in a way. Due to the time travel stuff she hasn’t lived the same life or had the same experiences that led to her being the woman who got involved with Quill and the Guardians. No guarantee she’ll turn out the same without those experiences.

Let’s hope the filmmakers create an entertaining movie where the characters act reasonably given their individual personalities, abilities, and perspectives, rather than forcing a romance down their throats. :D
 

Huntn

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Actually that is the point of the series, Loki "broke" time by picking up the tesseract. So it is a continuation of Banner's line. They may try to address SOME of the issues they caused with their version of time with the series.

I'm not sure if it's Loki's path forward, but it is a chance to give the many Loki fans the "devious" version they prefer again.

Hopefully the pacing issues will be a little better than Falcon & Winter Soldier since it's 6 episodes as well.
Actually 3 teams of Avengers broke time by going back in time and changing so many events it might make your head spin if you try to think it out logically regarding the effect it would have had if we are talking about a single timeline. :D
 

JayMysteri0

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Actually 3 teams of Avengers broke time by going back in time and changing so many events it might make your head spin if you try to think it out logically regarding the effect it would have had if we are talking about a single timeline. :D
I believe the catch is that Cap supposedly did repair most things by going back to the time of those fracture / instances.

The Tesseract though would still be with Loki since Cap didn't know about it or even ever have it to replace it. Making Loki the biggest break.

It's as known in Doctor Who circles "Timey Wimey". It isn't as important to understand it, as it is to be entertained by the story possibilities it generates.

I think the lead to Doctor Strange is that single timelines aren't really a thing anymore. DC Comics in their comics already embraces this, and basically EVERYTHING that ever happened in a DC comic did happen, even if it contradicts itself, because of multiple realities & time.
 

Huntn

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Many fans wants the dork to end up with the one who’s way out of the dork’s league. We want to feel like there is hope for us too. Preferably without getting bitten by radioactive spiders or abducted by aliens. Or maybe that’s just me.

That said, there is so much potential adventures to be had in the galaxy. No need to stay stuck in the past. Or maybe Gamora is in a way. Due to the time travel stuff she hasn’t lived the same life or had the same experiences that led to her being the woman who got involved with Quill and the Guardians. No guarantee she’ll turn out the same without those experiences.

Let’s hope the filmmakers create an entertaining movie where the characters act reasonably given their individual personalities, abilities, and perspectives, rather than forcing a romance down their throats. :D
We already know that Gamora hated her adopted father, that she was in the process of double crossing him when she first met Quill, and that she has ethics, her strong resolve that the Space Stone (if I have this stone, labeled correctly ;)), had to go to Nova Corp for safe keeping. So there is a strong good in her character.

And we already saw an inkling of the original Gamora rapidly evolving towards the Gamora we know, primarily making amends with her sister from her future and allying herself with current Nebula during this fight. I’m not saying this means anything, other than we already have strong insight into her morals and character.
 

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We already know that Gamora hated her adopted father, that she was in the process of double crossing him when she first met Quill, and that she has ethics, her strong resolve that the Space Stone (if I have this stone, labeled correctly ;)), had to go to Nova Corp for safe keeping. So there is a strong good in her character.

And we already saw an inkling of the original Gamora rapidly evolving towards the Gamora we know, primarily making amends with her sister from her future and allying herself with current Nebula during this fight. I’m not saying this means anything, other than we already have strong insight into her morals and character.
Every time you guys mention Gamora, this is my mental picture:

1618504871128.png
 

Huntn

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I believe the catch is that Cap supposedly did repair most things by going back to the time of those fracture / instances.

The Tesseract though would still be with Loki since Cap didn't know about it or even ever have it to replace it. Making Loki the biggest break.

It's as known in Doctor Who circles "Timey Wimey". It isn't as important to understand it, as it is to be entertained by the story possibilities it generates.

I think the lead to Doctor Strange is that single timelines aren't really a thing anymore. DC Comics in their comics already embraces this, and basically EVERYTHING that ever happened in a DC comic did happen, even if it contradicts itself, because of multiple realities & time.
Here is the thing, time travel involves hard core paradoxes. There is no logical way to allow what the writers of End Game created to make sense, unless you just accept what the story tells you. Putting the stones back later, still means that everything that happens after they are taken changes immediately and so many things would have changed the future they left, it may have been completely unrecognizable and at a minimum, there would be no time machine for them to return to.

Here is what I posted in the MR Time Paradox thread:
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/favorite-time-travel-paradoxes.1846619/post-29770776

The Problem With End Game: As said before, the easiest solution is to accept what the story tell you. However, if you think about it, The Avengers under the guidance of Banner send 3 teams back in time to retrieve 6 Infinity Stones. As soon as the time line was disrupted by these stones being intercepted, there are three possibilities. 1) They split off time into a new timeline and could not return to their original time line. 2) If the premise is altering a single time line, there never would have been an Infinity War, and there would have been no reason to build a quantum tunnel (time machine) to go back in time to fetch stones. Therefore the teams who went back in time, their future would have become their past, and they would have cut themselves off from returning to their former future, as the new future they created unfolds. 3) Now if the writers were clever enough, they might have concocted a story with a new future, where a quantum tunnel had been built for another reason giving the Avengers back in time, a route to return, but it would still not be the original future they left.
 

JayMysteri0

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Here is the thing, time travel involves hard core paradoxes. There is no logical way to allow what the writers of End Game created to make sense, unless you just accept what the story tells you. Putting the stones back later, still means that everything that happens after they are taken changes immediately and so many things would have changed the future they left, it may have been completely unrecognizable and at a minimum, there would be no time machine for them to return to.

Here is what I posted in the MR Time Paradox thread:
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/favorite-time-travel-paradoxes.1846619/post-29770776

The Problem With End Game: As said before, the easiest solution is to accept what the story tell you. However, if you think about it, The Avengers under the guidance of Banner send 3 teams back in time to retrieve 6 Infinity Stones. As soon as the time line was disrupted by these stones being intercepted, there are three possibilities. 1) They split off time into a new timeline and could not return to their original time line. 2) If the premise is altering a single time line, there never would have been an Infinity War, and there would have been no reason to build a quantum tunnel (time machine) to go back in time to fetch stones. Therefore the teams who went back in time, their future would have become their past, and they would have cut themselves off from returning to their former future, as the new future they created unfolds. 3) Now if the writers were clever enough, they might have concocted a story with a new future, where a quantum tunnel had been built for another reason giving the Avengers back in time, a route to return, but it would still not be the original future they left.
Which was their point of a sorts.

As you say time travel involves too many paradoxes, that I believe too many people try to explain.

My lazy theory based on that? That there are just as many theories to time travel as there are paradoxes. Stop thinking. <- I forget what show embraced this approach as it literally could make a character go crazy dwelling on it. None can be right, because someone will always make a case they are wrong.

They were like F' it. Enjoy the ride. Even the writers & directors don't agree on their own time travel. The ride is the point, and this ride gained even more possibilities.

The Russo brothers have a great working relationship with Markus and McFeely and are normally always on the same page when it comes to explaining what happens in their films. That is what makes this differing mindset all the more surprising, and somewhat confusing. The writers do admit that they aren't experts on time travel and that this is just their interpretation, but could it actually make sense for the MCU to have 2023 Steve Rogers around through all the events since around 1948?

Such an explanation would mean that Avengers: Endgame is embracing the linear timeline with time loops explanation of time travel, where you aren't changing the past but enabling something that already did take place. This would potentially allow Steve to live a normal life for the last 80 years of the MCU that we've never seen, making him the husband that Peggy's referred to in the past but never named. This explanation also means that only changes to the Infinity Stones would create branched realities, while returning Mjolnir could be an expansion on this idea, and Cap going to the past doesn't create one because it already happened.
After appearing to have clarity on what Steve's ending in Avengers: Endgame means, we are now back to square one with two competing explanations. Since both the Russo brothers and Markus and McFeely are done with the MCU for the time being, it may be left up to future MCU stories to actually explain what the in-canon explanation is, but the closing of Cap's story still works on an emotional level no matter what is decided.

I wouldn't be surprised if at some point we get ANOTHER theory on time travel.

To me, the only constant will be, that there is / was time travel.
 

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Which was their point of a sorts.

As you say time travel involves too many paradoxes, that I believe too many people try to explain.

My lazy theory based on that? That there are just as many theories to time travel as there are paradoxes. Stop thinking. <- I forget what show embraced this approach as it literally could make a character go crazy dwelling on it. None can be right, because someone will always make a case they are wrong.

They were like F' it. Enjoy the ride. Even the writers & directors don't agree on their own time travel. The ride is the point, and this ride gained even more possibilities.





I wouldn't be surprised if at some point we get ANOTHER theory on time travel.

To me, the only constant will be, that there is / was time travel.
Here’s what bugs me when I allow it too, lol. :D They actually try to explain it to the audience and then do exactly what Banner says that is not how time works.
 

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Here’s what bugs me when I allow it too, lol. :D They actually try to explain it to the audience and then do exactly what Banner says that is not how time works.
Once again, it is a Marvel universe.

Does anyone REALLY know how time works, with all the variables added by a universe with space gods, sorcerers, mutants, and advanced science that is always in the hands of a ridiculously few?

Once the Fantastic Four & Reed Richards ( which will be hinted at in the next Ant Man movie, with Kang the Conqueror ) are introduced, all bets will be off.
 

Pumbaa

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Here’s what bugs me when I allow it too, lol. :D They actually try to explain it to the audience and then do exactly what Banner says that is not how time works.
Oh how it bugged me when they seemed to go against Banner’s explanation in the movie... Felt a bit better about it when I realized that while he is a smart dude his field of expertise isn’t exactly time travel.

Maybe he was just Hulksplaining? 😁
 

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Once again, it is a Marvel universe.

Does anyone REALLY know how time works, with all the variables added by a universe with space gods, sorcerers, mutants, and advanced science that is always in the hands of a ridiculously few?

Once the Fantastic Four & Reed Richards ( which will be hinted at in the next Ant Man movie, with Kang the Conqueror ) are introduced, all bets will be off.
Based on every other attempt at a Fantastic 4 movie, perhaps Marvel should pretend they don’t exist. Otherwise, they might kill the entire MCU….
 

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Based on every other attempt at a Fantastic 4 movie, perhaps Marvel should pretend they don’t exist. Otherwise, they might kill the entire MCU….
Feige won't care about the past, though they will do clever call backs probably.

I expect the FF will be more about the next phase of the Marvel Universe.

About Falcon & the Winter Soldier ( No spoilers ) the latest episode is the story payoffs and I loved it. I really wish they had at least one more episode so they hadn't sped thru so much, so there would have stronger emotional payoffs.

A spoiler: There is a mid credit scene.
 

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Based on every other attempt at a Fantastic 4 movie, perhaps Marvel should pretend they don’t exist. Otherwise, they might kill the entire MCU….
If they skip the traditional Fantastic 4 approach they’ll probably make a great addition to the MCU.

Just please please pretty please with a cherry on top please please do not make the movie be about the origin of the Fantastic 4, or about a Reed/Susan/Baddie of the movie love triangle. Flashbacks explaining the origins or referring to them is fine, but rehashing the origins is not enough to warrant a new movie. No point in retelling the same old story, move on folks!

With the success of the MCU, there must be good writers available nowadays who would be happy to write characters with depth even for a superhero movie. And there is no shortage of good actors either. Ben could be more than just a stupid thing, Susan more than a silly pretty girl, and Johnny more than an immature hothead. It is possible to have characters with some depth even with the comic book constraints in mind...
 

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Relevant.

Yeah, and no.

I've been reading that since his interview got traction.

Ed Brubaker unfortunately is in the shitty position of having created something that the MCU used to make more. Ed worked under "work for hire", and knew it. Unfortunately no one knew how big things would blow up. Companies like Disney & Warner / AT & T see Marvel & DC as mines now to dig for content to exploit. None of them care where it came from or how it was made, they just know that they legally own it.

Only when the companies get shamed do they do token payments. They have improved with the credits, because fans watch & know the creators, and will kick & scream if creators aren't acknowledged.

As Brubaker acknowledges though, he's aware of what Jack Kirby went thru. He knew that once his ideas were printed, they weren't HIS ideas anymore. It's up to Disney if he gets anything, let alone how much.

I think what should be done is more attention should be drawn to his creator owned work, which SHOULD get it's own features from another studio where he would make the real money.


I LOVED this series, but unfortunately it has ties to properties that are now owned by DC Comics.

 
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