Mob storms Capitol

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SuperMatt

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I thought we should have a thread specifically for this historic event... right now the discussion is spread out among many threads.

Republican lobbying group (National Association of Manufacturers) is calling on Mike Pence to use the 25th amendment to get rid of Trump.
 
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SuperMatt

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Just heard on PBS that protesters have a goal of preventing the counting of the votes, so they are refusing to leave the Capitol. They are saying removal by force will be necessary.
 

Alli

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I say pepper spray them. If that doesn’t work, move to rubber bullets. From there, use real bullets, just like they did with the peaceful protestors this summer.

Lock up as many as you have room for. Hell, put them in the cages that are already in place.

Then lock up Trump, Hawley, Cruse, Gohmert, and any of the others who have been instigating.
 

SuperMatt

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I say pepper spray them. If that doesn’t work, move to rubber bullets. From there, use real bullets, just like they did with the peaceful protestors this summer.

Lock up as many as you have room for. Hell, put them in the cages that are already in place.

Then lock up Trump, Hawley, Cruse, Gohmert, and any of the others who have been instigating.
Ron Estes on TV now (R Senator from Kansas) still saying he supports overturning the election. He is as bad as Trump.
 

Scepticalscribe

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I say pepper spray them. If that doesn’t work, move to rubber bullets. From there, use real bullets, just like they did with the peaceful protestors this summer.

Lock up as many as you have room for. Hell, put them in the cages that are already in place.

Then lock up Trump, Hawley, Cruse, Gohmert, and any of the others who have been instigating.

I would say use whatever force is legally permissable to immobilise them.

Teargas, tranquillisers. Perhaps a knee in the nuts.

Then, arrest them.

With watertight warrants.

No silly spelling - slipshod - mistakes (especially, re names), stupid errors of syntax, fatuous grammar, above all, no idiotic errors of law. Watertight warrants.

Then, gather your - irrefutable, and ensure that it is irrefutable - evidence and charge them, and convict them, all in accordance with the rule of law, because that is what this is all about:

Does a frenzied and frothing mob rule, - a mob motivated by fear and hatred - and is answerable to those who can direct and motivate armed thugs, those who support the idea of a megalomaniac kleptomaniac thuggocracy rule, those who can project power when power is defined as a closed fist or a wielded weapon?

Or do those who won an election freely and fairly and legally, who admit to an admiration for the rule of law, who accept that they are accountable and answerable to the concept of the rule of law, do they get to form the government when the counted, enumerated, tallied and recorded ballots have awarded them this legitimate mandate?

You must adhere to the principles you say you stand for: Not only because it is the right thing to do (the old we go high when they go low), but also because, you believe that certain things ought to be governed by a code of conduct, of principles expressed in laws, laws which are above the mere exercise of power, and which govern, constrain, limit, and enable, the exercise of that lawful, legitimate, power.

Because, when you govern by the rule of law, you govern in the name of the common good, of the public good (not the private good) of all.

If you don't do so, it becomes a world where the biggest bully, and the thugs armed best win, - a world where the strong bully (the verb, not noun) the less strong, merely because they can - a pure power play where power projection is defined in terms of force, coercion, and compelled compliance, a binary world of "winners" and "losers".

However, if the latter, then, they also must abide by - and be seen to abide by - the rule of law, even against the thugs; and, thus, you deal with the thugs with the courtesy (but also the sting) of the rule of law. Because, nobody should be above the rule of law.
 
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Scepticalscribe

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Firstly, this was an attempt at a coup, an attempt to frustrate Congress from formally certifying Mr Biden as the victor in the presidential election.

Secondly, even if that didn't work, and it probably won't work (never mind the damage done to the reputation of the US as a consequence) - and never forget Mr Trump's insane and obsessive desire to be the centre of attention, the subject of headlines - even, and when, Mr Biden is (eventually, and inevitably) certified the victor, the story will still be about the loathsome and utterly repellant Mr Trump.

Thirdly, and we are fools if we think otherwise, we can - or should - expect something even bigger, nastier, more outrageous, more criminally and destructively irresponsible, more monstrously mad and completely insane, to occur on, or around, the day of the inauguration.

Anything to ensure that the story being told on that day will not be Mr Biden being sworn into office.
 
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Scepticalscribe

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You know what I'm expecting from the aftermath of all this? Nothing.

A few arrests of some of the more unruly protesters, some harsh words on TV thereafter, and no one held accountable.

I think that this may go a bit further than that, because the flagrant outrage against tradition, and norms was so...appalling, so egregious, so awful, so outrageous.

For one thing, I think that the GOP will have to justify why Mr Trump should not become the legal equivalent of a stuffed dummy, a tranquillised zombie, in office for the final two weeks of his awful tenure, if they decline to impeach him.

The man has shown himself not only utterly unfit for office - he was always that - but a danger to the democratic traditions and history of the US.
 
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SuperMatt

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You know what I'm expecting from the aftermath of all this? Nothing.

A few arrests of some of the more unruly protesters, some harsh words on TV thereafter, and no one held accountable.
I want very harsh penalties. I thought these Proud Boys types were annoying and I don’t like them in my town. But after this, I see they are violent extremists who belong locked up for as long as possible. We should not have to fear for our lives from these insurrectionisis.
 

lizkat

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I want very harsh penalties. I thought these Proud Boys types were annoying and I don’t like them in my town. But after this, I see they are violent extremists who belong locked up for as long as possible. We should not have to fear for our lives from these insurrectionisis.

Yeah it's not like this is the end of it after the Congress formalizes Biden-Harris win. Trump means there to be no end to it and he'll stir pots as long as he can get away with it, and these guys will respond every time unless it's seen as way too expensive to do that.

 

SuperMatt

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Will Twitter users start to identify the people who are on camera inside the Capitol? The information should be collected so it can be given to the FBI as they try to arrest those involved in the coup attempt.
 

Scepticalscribe

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It's possible that the apple of daddy's eye may have received legal advice to that effect, ya think?


Now - and for those who think that adherence to the rule of law is for wimps - I want to see that family investigated (and charged and convicted), for every breath that they have drawn, inhaled, exhaled, even for an unexpected involuntary sneeze, or wheeze, since the 2016 election.

Neither "the apple of daddy's warped wandering eye" nor her horrible husband should ever have been a part of this administration; I would like to see them made accountable for their actions, and for the laws (yes, laws) strengthened - and enforced - so that immediate families cannot ever serve in such a way again in administrations.

I want to see thumbscrews, serious thumbscrews - or, rather, the rule of law equivalent - applied to anyone who could not furnish a tax clearance, and for those who sought to profit from their business interests while in office.

And, I have not even started on the subject matter of security clearances.
 

Thomas Veil

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NBC TV just said there had been right wing chatter about storming the Capitol for weeks.

So, did our intel services downplay this—at the urging of Trump’s cronies, who now run those services?
 
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