Mr Trump Refuses To Commit To A Peaceful Transfer Of Power If Defeated

[Renzatic]

As of today I'd say you could be right. Only thing might change that is if more Republican officials speak up more often and with more conviction and STOP just letting Trump's election integrity attack tweets

You know as well as I do that won't happen.

 

[Renzatic]

The difference is that if Trump loses, the Trumpers will never accept it. They'll have all kinds of baseless conspiracy theories.

On the other hand if Trump wins after having committed all this sabotage, we'll never know if the win was real. Anything other than a Trump landslide is going to be viewed with suspicion.

A Trump or Biden landslide would be viewed with suspicion, since neither one of them have the numbers to justify an airtight victory.

All anyone can hope for is a slight victory, which, depending on how things go over the next few weeks, can be questioned by either side. The Republicans will say that the Democrats cheated just enough to eek out a victory, and the Democrats will be able to level the same accusation if reports of Trump's interference are widespread enough.

It's going to be an absolute clusterfuck. Steel yourself for it now, because it WILL NOT play out smoothly.

 

[lizkat]

A Trump or Biden landslide would be viewed with suspicion, since neither one of them have the numbers to justify an airtight victory.

All anyone can hope for is a slight victory, which, depending on how things go over the next few weeks, can be questioned by either side. The Republicans will say that the Democrats cheated just enough to eek out a victory, and the Democrats will be able to level the same accusation if reports of Trump's interference are widespread enough.

It's going to be an absolute clusterfuck. Steel yourself for it now, because it WILL NOT play out smoothly.

I dunno. In American politics, a "landslide" is not a 93-7 win. It's just double digits.

But it might not be smooth even if it's a 10% margin, you're right about that. Trump's pot-stirring about ballot fraud and DeJoy's messing with mail sorters that were mostly hauled out of postal facilities in Clinton strongholds of 2016 almost guarantee suspicion of results in states that are not usually big on mail-in voting.

 

[Renzatic]

I dunno. In American politics, a "landslide" is not a 93-7 win. It's just double digits.

It's really more like 5%. I think Reagan might've been the last time I saw a president win by a double digit margin, and I was, like, 1 year old when that happened.

 

[Alli]

But it might not be smooth even if it's a 10% margin, you're right about that.

More and more I fear that we will enter a “period of civil unrest” following the election - regardless of the outcome.

It's really more like 5%. I think Reagan might've been the last time I saw a president win by a double digit margin, and I was, like, 1 year old when that happened.

Oh you baby.

 

[Renzatic]

Oh you baby.

It was a pretty exciting day for me. I pooped myself! Twice!

 

[lizkat]

It's really more like 5%. I think Reagan might've been the last time I saw a president win by a double digit margin, and I was, like, 1 year old when that happened.

If it's a 5% margin for a landslide these days, then yeah in a fair count, Biden-Harris will rack up a landslide in 2020 and then some.

As far as Reagan's first win went, I remember sitting there watching the returns come in on a TV in my bedroom and thinking that Orwell's 1984 had somehow arrived to the USA in 19fricken80.

The Republican Party's antics while in power during the Nixon era had long since put me off them as ballot options, and Reagan's unctuous patter about morning in America didn't do anything to dissuade me from thinking these guys were going to outdo even Orwell's imagination in no time flat.

Some Americans made derisive remarks about Reagan having acted in the comedy Bedtime for Bonzo, while admirers took to calling him The Great Communicator.
What always stuck in my mind though were those notorious lines from a speech that Reagan had made in 1976:

"Whereas once the problem was just welfare queens and strapping young bucks, now it’s the entire middle and lower classes, the lazy union members, the credit card deadbeats, the unemployed so content with their benefits that they don’t look for work."​

There's the GOP's core set of beliefs with Reagan's unctuous veneer stripped off.

So 2020, is that like 1980? Nah. We know this is no "morning in America" gig coming over the hill, no matter who wins this election.

Those lines from Reagan's '76 speech are fightin' words for maybe 85% of the population at this point because it's just about all of us potentially months or even days from "down and out" -- except for the top 1% or so, thanks to the covid-19 and Trump's monumental incompetence and willful destruction of government agency.

It's true that Trump talked about carnage in America back in 2016... but neither he nor we had seen real carnage yet. The question is now that we have seen it, do we believe our own eyes, or as Trump has often urged his followers, should we look to him to define what has really happened?

Well if we look to him, Trump is suggesting scenarios in which mailed ballots are "the problem" and that without them, his continuation in office will be the obvious outcome. And so far only a few Republicans have gainsaid him in public.

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1309490066746638338/​

 

[Alli]

As far as Reagan's first win went, I remember sitting there watching the returns come in on a TV in my bedroom and thinking that Orwell's 1984 had somehow arrived to the USA in 19fricken80.

My only thoughts were that we would have a president whose speeches would be presented properly. Actors can speechify. Reality tv hosts cannot.

 

[JBaby]

I know y’all are concerned about this. Frankly I’m on the side of this isn’t news. I knew this years ago. Also, I’m really not concerned. I don’t think Biden will win. Whether it’s because of lack of votes, the electoral college, or cheating it won’t matter. Either way I don’t think he’ll win. I knew Hillary would lose. I wanted so badly to be wrong.

I think the Democrats didn’t learned a gahtdamn thing from 2016 and they’ve backed the wrong horse again. Will I vote for Biden? Of course because I’m not brain dead. I know he’s infinitely better than Trump. There’s really no comparison. But am I energized by Biden? Hell to the no!

I’m not cynical by nature, but I am a realist. No matter how this plays out it won’t be peaceful.

 

[Eric]

I know y’all are concerned about this. Frankly I’m on the side of this isn’t news. I knew this years ago. Also, I’m really not concerned. I don’t think Biden will win. Whether it’s because of lack of votes, the electoral college, or cheating it won’t matter. Either way I don’t think he’ll win. I knew Hillary would lose. I wanted so badly to be wrong.

I think the Democrats didn’t learned a gahtdamn thing from 2016 and they’ve backed the wrong horse again. Will I vote for Biden? Of course because I’m not brain dead. I know he’s infinitely better than Trump. There’s really no comparison. But am I energized by Biden? Hell to the no!

I’m not cynical by nature, but I am a realist. No matter how this plays out it won’t be peaceful.

I agree with your take on 2016 here, it was a hard lesson for us all although I really do hope you're wrong this time around, I get the feeling you would be happy to proven that way it he does win. This time I am hoping we take the lessons from the last election and not take a single vote for granted, as Hillary glaringly did in 2016.

We're seeing Biden step it up in these battleground states as well, the one's that really matter anyway and he's doing well in all the polls, even as of today Fox News' own polls show him a lot further ahead than Hillary was at this time in 2016.

As I keep saying, foot on the gas until every last vote is cast and counted and take nothing for granted. Jbaby, here's to hoping we can toast to a victory in November!

 

[lizkat]

I’m not cynical by nature, but I am a realist. No matter how this plays out it won’t be peaceful.

It's possible a lot of street theatre oriented folks won't want it to be peaceful no matter who wins. Most people would just like it to be over so we can get on with real life. That level of longing for a break in the drama is what will probably drive the reaction bus after the inauguration... and after the usual revelations to the media of whatever the outgoing West Wing guys left in their desk drawers for the newbies.

I grant you the time between Nov 3 and January 20 could be pretty weird

Yeah I'm still thinking Biden will win though... because Trump's not thinking it through when he continues to play divide-and-conquer cards. He's supposed to be trying to woo some indie voters and Republican women from suburbs. The state chairs hate him because instead of doing that he's mobilizing the blue vote with all his talk of making a SCOTUS pick to obliterate even the illusion of a nonpartisan high court.

And no I don't think it's going to be possible to "rig" this election.

 

[Eric]

It's possible a lot of street theatre oriented folks won't want it to be peaceful no matter who wins. Most people would just like it to be over so we can get on with real life. That level of longing for a break in the drama is what will probably drive the reaction bus after the inauguration... and after the usual revelations to the media of whatever the outgoing West Wing guys left in their desk drawers for the newbies.

I grant you the time between Nov 3 and January 20 could be pretty weird

Yeah I'm still thinking Biden will win though... because Trump's not thinking it through when he continues to play divide-and-conquer cards. He's supposed to be trying to woo some indie voters and Republican women from suburbs. The state chairs hate him because instead of doing that he's mobilizing the blue vote with all his talk of making a SCOTUS pick to obliterate even the illusion of a nonpartisan high court.

And no I don't think it's going to be possible to "rig" this election.

This is one of the more pragmatic takes on all of this that I have seen and I agree for the most part. If he loses I expect he'll leave but I don't see how all of this rhetoric is appealing to anyone outside of his diehard base, those are the people he needs and he seems to be doing everything in his power to alienate them.

While I think he can definitely sow distrust in the system, I don't think he can overthrow it and in the end votes will be counted as they should be.

 

[JBaby]

I agree with your take on 2016 here, it was a hard lesson for us all although I really do hope you're wrong this time around, I get the feeling you would be happy to proven that way it he does win. This time I am hoping we take the lessons from the last election and not take a single vote for granted, as Hillary glaringly did in 2016.

We're seeing Biden step it up in these battleground states as well, the one's that really matter anyway and he's doing well in all the polls, even as of today Fox News' own polls show him a lot further ahead than Hillary was at this time in 2016.

As I keep saying, foot on the gas until every last vote is cast and counted and take nothing for granted. Jbaby, here's to hoping we can toast to a victory in November! [emoji482]

I very much want to be wrong. I want him to win. I need him to. I’m a black, disabled woman who can’t afford another 4 years of Trump.

This is true, but the polls also said she’d win and she didn’t. She knew she had it because she thought she was entitled to it. So she didn’t work for it. But I still think she was the wrong candidate from the very beginning.

My ideal situation is Biden wins. We hold his feet to the fire and then we work hard and support a progressive candidate. I want real change. This middle of the road BS isn’t working for me.

 

[Renzatic]

And no I don't think it's going to be possible to "rig" this election.

It's almost impossible to rig an election. Almost any attempt at it would be discovered and corrected within 48 hours.

But as we're finding out, it's apparently very easy to make people doubt the results. Over the next few weeks, we're going to see tons of the usual forum and social media bobbleheads posting pictures showing ABSOLUTE PROOF that the DEMONRATS are RIGGING THE ELECTION! They'll mostly be blurry CCTV photos that can be easily construed for just about anything, all filled with little red circles leading our eyes towards the incriminating evidence, and leading questions written off to the side to make you feel like you're actually thinking for yourself. Compound this with Trump and the Republicans constant screaming about how unfair the election is, how they've found so many boxes of X, Y, or Z just TOSSED ASIDE, and we'll have lost complete faith in the process. No one will trust the popular vote.

From there, chaos reigns.

 

[JBaby]

It's almost impossible to rig an election. Almost any attempt at it would be discovered and corrected within 48 hours.

But as we're finding out, it's apparently very easy to make people doubt the results. Over the next few weeks, we're going to see tons of the usual forum and social media bobbleheads posting pictures showing ABSOLUTE PROOF that the DEMONRATS are RIGGING THE ELECTION! They'll mostly be blurry CCTV photos that can be easily construed for just about anything, all filled with little red circles leading our eyes towards the incriminating evidence, and leading questions written off to the side to make you feel like you're actually thinking for yourself. Compound this with Trump and the Republicans constant screaming about how unfair the election is, how they've found so many boxes of X, Y, or Z just TOSSED ASIDE, and we'll have lost complete faith in the process. No one will trust the popular vote.

From there, chaos reigns.

This is what cheating is in my mind. I don’t mean the election will be rigged. I just think there will be shenanigans and tomfoolery and that will be enough.

 

[Renzatic]

This is true, but the polls also said she’d win and she didn’t. She knew she had it because she thought she was entitled to it. So she didn’t work for it. But I still think she was the wrong candidate from the very beginning.

There were plenty warning signs showing us that things weren't quite so peachy keen that we ignored because no one could imagine a Trump victory. If we're all honest about it, Hillary wasn't exactly a very likable candidate, and had almost no appeal to the moderate Republicans. She's difficult to trust, was embroiled in a scandal during the campaign, her polling was abysmal, and everyone took way too much for granted.

There's no way she could lose the rust belt. That's solid democrat territory, and Trump's crazy! Nevermind that she's polling right in the margin of error. PRECEDENCE SHOWS SHE CAN'T LOSE!

If there is a plus side to all this, it's that the pollsters are no longer taking things quite so much for granted, and are being more conservative with their estimates. On top of that, Biden is all around a more likeable candidate, and Trump is now a known quantity.

Do I think he's gonna win? No more than I think he's gonna lose. In a normal election situation, I'd probably slightly favor him taking the presidency over Trump at this point. But with the chaos on the horizon, no one can make any guarantees of anything.

This is what cheating is in my mind. I don’t mean the election will be rigged. I just think there will be shenanigans and tomfoolery and that will be enough.

Well, you can expect roughly 100 metric shit-tons of shenanigans and tomfoolery.

This will be an election for the history books. May we all survive it.

 

[JBaby]

There were plenty warning signs showing us that things weren't quite so peachy keen that we ignored because no one could imagine a Trump victory. If we're all honest about it, Hillary wasn't exactly a very likable candidate, and had almost no appeal to the moderate Republicans. She's difficult to trust, was embroiled in a scandal during the campaign, her polling was abysmal, and everyone took way too much for granted.

There's no way she could lose the rust belt. That's solid democrat territory, and Trump's crazy! Nevermind that she's polling right in the margin of error. PRECEDENCE SHOWS SHE CAN'T LOSE!

If there is a plus side to all this, it's that the pollsters are no longer taking things quite so much for granted, and are being more conservative with their estimates. On top of that, Biden is all around a more likeable candidate, and Trump is now a known quantity.

Do I think he's gonna win? No more than I think he's gonna lose. In a normal election situation, I'd probably slightly favor him taking the presidency over Trump at this point. But with the chaos on the horizon, no one can make any guarantees of anything.

You are so right!!!! And yet somehow everyone was so shocked. I wasn’t shocked at all.

Well, you can expect roughly 100 metric shit-tons of shenanigans and tomfoolery.

This will be an election for the history books. May we all survive it.

I know. I’m bracing myself for it. I’m in Kansas. All I see here are Trump signs.

 

[Renzatic]

You are so right!!!! And yet somehow everyone was so shocked. I wasn’t shocked at all.

I knew it was gonna be a tight race, but I was still disappointed by the results.

At the time, I could write it off as people choosing the devil we don't know over the devil we do. Dunno how I'll excuse thing this year if Trump ends up cinching the EC.

I know. I’m bracing myself for it. I’m in Kansas. All I see here are Trump signs.

Kansas is pretty deep red. What's weird is that my state, Georgia, is right on the cusp of purpledom, just slightly favoring Trump.

Maybe there's something to it. So far, I've seen three Trump signs, a Biden sign, and a Biden bumper sticker.

 

[Huntn]

He’s not above doing any of that...if the bait is taken. I liken it to overreacting to a child’s misbehavior. If I react to every stupid thing he says, I’ll pass out from exhaustion.

This sorry excuse for a human being is doing everything he can to prevail, tear it down, burn it down, anyone who opposes him, fuck them!

Remember, Trump tactics, this incompetent loser is completely UNACCEPTABLE, and if you are not a nut yourself, you should be completely terrified that there were enough citizens in this country who cheer this poisonous asshole and elect a sociopathic maniac to lead us. Trump is the ugly boil, but just a symptom of the underlying illness.

Here we have a God fearing (haha), law abiding (harhar), patriotic and support democracy (giggle), self described big tent, all-in supporters of the Military Industrial Complex, political party who hated this man’s guts, but since 2016, have been supporting this poison for percieved political advantage.

(We can send the GOP home too in Nov).

Back to the point, if you perceive you have benefited from the Trump Administration, at best, it‘s just by chance. His sails change with the whatever benefits Donny‘s Ass, whom ever he can fool, and the Christians seem to be one of his primary suckers.

Donand Trump is a dire threat to our institutions, because his enablers primarily the GOP, and minion Kool aid gulpers break bad, displaying a break from reality, or even have a National death wish. This is just how out of touch with reality they are and these kind of choices harm us greatly.

His rigged election mantra is complete bull shit, but it’s the losers who will allow him to succeed.

 

[Eric]

I very much want to be wrong. I want him to win. I need him to. I’m a black, disabled woman who can’t afford another 4 years of Trump.

This is true, but the polls also said she’d win and she didn’t. She knew she had it because she thought she was entitled to it. So she didn’t work for it. But I still think she was the wrong candidate from the very beginning.

My ideal situation is Biden wins. We hold his feet to the fire and then we work hard and support a progressive candidate. I want real change. This middle of the road BS isn’t working for me.

Couldn't agree more, and it's nice to see you on this side of the tracks.