Pledge of Allegiance

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iMi

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I have had the pleasure of spending the entire week with our daughter and every morning I hear her recite the Pledge of Allegiance. I am bothered by the words “under God” and don’t understand how in a country where we have a strict prohibition of government endorsement of religion can this be possible. Imagine if we had a pledge that said “under Flying Spaghetti Monster.” Where’s the difference? Both are completely imaginary.

Before you guys say it’s just “tradition” and it doesn’t mean anything I’d like to remind you that owning other human beings as property was also a tradition once. We went to war over it. We are still living with resulting “traditions” like the Electoral College and tangible wealth gap between white and black peoples, but I digress.

The point is that having ”God“ in our Pledge, on our currency and in the courtrooms in out of place in a nation where religious liberty is the cornerstone of our democracy. Or we don’t live in the country we think we do. Both ideas can’t be true at the same time.

Thoughts?
 
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iMi

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It didn’t used to be in there. They added it into the pledge in 1954. They shouldn’t have. I always skip that part, since we most certainly are not one nation under any particular deity.

Well, there is a bit of a controversy at home right now. I told our daughter she can skip this part. She’s five. My wife, on the other hand, things I’m making a fuss about nothing and should just let it go. She’s a liberal, too. I refuse to let it go. Today is the pledge of allegiance and tomorrow you’ll have a “religious freedom” movement and gay people won’t be able to get a god damn wedding cake. People need cake, Sarah. That’s what I told her...
 

ericgtr12

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IMO nobody should be forced to pledge allegiance to anything, especially in our schools. Look at the shit show America has been for the last four years, I've never been more ashamed of my own country and I'm sure as hell not going to worship a flag where the leadership promotes hatred and racism. If they want people to pledge allegiance then they need to give them a reason to show pride, not just force them to mouth a bunch of Fascist words.
 

iMi

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IMO nobody should be forced to pledge allegiance to anything, especially in our schools. Look at the shit show America has been for the last four years, I've never been more ashamed of my own country and I'm sure as hell not going to worship a flag where the leadership promotes hatred and racism. If they want people to pledge allegiance then they need to give them a reason to show pride, not just force them to mouth a bunch of Fascist words.
I agree. It only breeds tribalism. What is the point of having our children say the same thing every day? I pledge allegiance once; when I renounced allegiance to other countries, rejected all other citizenships and swore to uphold the constitution and to protect our nation from enemies foreign and domestic. And that happened when I was granted a citizenship in the United States. That's it. That's the proper venue to make such pledge.
 

Alli

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IMO nobody should be forced to pledge allegiance to anything, especially in our schools. Look at the shit show America has been for the last four years, I've never been more ashamed of my own country and I'm sure as hell not going to worship a flag where the leadership promotes hatred and racism. If they want people to pledge allegiance then they need to give them a reason to show pride, not just force them to mouth a bunch of Fascist words.
And the fact is, the courts have said students do not have to recite the pledge. They are not even required by law to stand while the rest of the class recites the pledge.

It is a nice way to practice showing respect for others though.
 

Clix Pix

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Do schools still do that, have students recite the Pledge of Allegiance before starting their actual school day? Can you tell it's been a long time since I've had anything to do with school, especially elementary and middle schools!
 
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Alli

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Do schools still do that, have students recite the Pledge of Allegiance before starting their actual school day? (Can you tell it's been a long time since I've had anything to do with school, especially elementary and middle schools!
Many schools still do. Some of them even still have a moment of silence, just in case someone wants to pray. Cause you know, kids never pray except for when directed. 🙄 (Like prior to every test!)
 

Clix Pix

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I don’t understand why anyone would allow those two words to bother them.
🤷🏼‍♂️

In today's diverse world, there are children in school who are coming from very different cultures and backgrounds, and their family's religious beliefs may differ significantly from others' -- and so the words "under God" may indeed be bothersome to them or to their parents. In addition, having children recite those words in a public school kind of negates the idea of "separation of Church and State," doesn't it?
 

Gutwrench

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I don't think it's so much that the words are bothersome as much as Government making us say them in school.

I see. Where? School? The kids probably never even noticed. It seems there are bigger fish to fry. We screw up our kids as much as we think we help. 😆
 

Gutwrench

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In today's diverse world, there are children in school who are coming from very different cultures and backgrounds, and their family's religious beliefs may differ significantly from others' -- and so the words "under God" may indeed be bothersome to them or to their parents. In addition, having children recite those words in a public school kind of negates the idea of "separation of Church and State," doesn't it?

Meh...people like to fuss. This isn’t a major issue except by those who make it one.
 

ericgtr12

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I see. Where? School? The kids probably never even noticed. It seems there are bigger fish to fry. We screw up our kids as much as we think we help. 😆
If they never notice then why force it in? Private school is one thing but they need to keep that shit out of public schools.
 
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