Police Brutality

Chew Toy McCoy

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Weirdly I couldn't find a general purpose police killing of black people thread. So I'll just put this here.

Heard a black caller into a radio show suggest the media should also put more focus on incidents where cops kill white people, and he said it with sincerity believing it would show it as a more general problem and not just a race problem. This would get more people on board with concern and reform. I'm unsure of that. People on the left would see it as once again white people trying to steal the thunder from black people. People on the right with their twisted logic would see it as "See, it happens to everybody. So it's no big deal." or maybe in these recent times would say we need to focus more on cops killing white people.
 

SuperMatt

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Weirdly I couldn't find a general purpose police killing of black people thread. So I'll just put this here.

Heard a black caller into a radio show suggest the media should also put more focus on incidents where cops kill white people, and he said it with sincerity believing it would show it as a more general problem and not just a race problem. This would get more people on board with concern and reform. I'm unsure of that. People on the left would see it as once again white people trying to steal the thunder from black people. People on the right with their twisted logic would see it as "See, it happens to everybody. So it's no big deal." or maybe in these recent times would say we need to focus more on cops killing white people.
Maybe there aren’t that many incidents? I see the same video bandied about for years whenever far-right types are trying to say white people get killed by cops too. But I know such incidents happen. And during BLM protests, cops were brutal towards large groups of people of varying races and nationalities.
 

P_X

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Weirdly I couldn't find a general purpose police killing of black people thread. So I'll just put this here.

Heard a black caller into a radio show suggest the media should also put more focus on incidents where cops kill white people, and he said it with sincerity believing it would show it as a more general problem and not just a race problem. This would get more people on board with concern and reform. I'm unsure of that. People on the left would see it as once again white people trying to steal the thunder from black people. People on the right with their twisted logic would see it as "See, it happens to everybody. So it's no big deal." or maybe in these recent times would say we need to focus more on cops killing white people.
Maybe there aren’t that many incidents? I see the same video bandied about for years whenever far-right types are trying to say white people get killed by cops too. But I know such incidents happen. And during BLM protests, cops were brutal towards large groups of people of varying races and nationalities.
numerically the ratio of police killings is 2:1 favoring Whites, so the caller isn't entirely wrong. Proportionally though, there's plentyfold higher impact on Blacks. That said I've seen plenty of "snuff" videos of White people being assaulted by cops too. Just as upsetting.
 

thekev

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numerically the ratio of police killings is 2:1 favoring Whites, so the caller isn't entirely wrong. Proportionally though, there's plentyfold higher impact on Blacks. That said I've seen plenty of "snuff" videos of White people being assaulted by cops too. Just as upsetting.

In census terms, White is used as a catch all default rather than what we typically think of as White. For example, it includes anything Middle Eastern and used to include Asian and Hispanic. Census data suggests using current criteria, population statistics in the US are roughly 76% White and 13% Black. If race was orthogonal to the rate of these incidences, I would expect the numbers to more closely reflect population distribution.

 

P_X

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In census terms, White is used as a catch all default rather than what we typically think of as White. For example, it includes anything Middle Eastern and used to include Asian and Hispanic. Census data suggests using current criteria, population statistics in the US are roughly 76% White and 13% Black. If race was orthogonal to the rate of these incidences, I would expect the numbers to more closely reflect population distribution.

Absolutely. FauxNews.com had a very low-effort editorial "debunking the myth of systemic racism" by using absolute numbers and completely ignoring adjustments for census data. The lack of effort really baffled me.
 

thekev

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Absolutely. FauxNews.com had a very low-effort editorial "debunking the myth of systemic racism" by using absolute numbers and completely ignoring adjustments for census data. The lack of effort really baffled me.

That's really shitty, and they know better. Any news network of that size employs or contracts statisticians and certainly has people with some background in machine learning (those guys study statistics too far beyond the level needed to understand something this fundamental) on staff. This is simple enough that I would expect their editorial staff to get it as well, making such an analysis just disingenuous.
 

P_X

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That's really shitty, and they know better. Any news network of that size employs or contracts statisticians and certainly has people with some background in machine learning (those guys study statistics too far beyond the level needed to understand something this fundamental) on staff. This is simple enough that I would expect their editorial staff to get it as well, making such an analysis just disingenuous.
Oh, I mean it's a feature not a bug. My MR Frenemy called it a defining moment when he "caught the NYT and CNN" on lies that rendered him "unwoke", to me that OpEd was a moment I my doubts eliminated that racism isn't a collateral damage, FoxNews directly capitalizes on it.

(Truth be told I've been avoiding Fox for a long long time. I watched Iraq's televised invasion on Fox and fondly remember the statements of ZERO American casualties when the European news agencies reported dozens of US Soldiers dead. Absurd).
-----

My blood is still boiling about the death of Daniel Shaver:
https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/msr11e
 

thekev

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Oh, I mean it's a feature not a bug. My MR Frenemy called it a defining moment when he "caught the NYT and CNN" on lies that rendered him "unwoke", to me that OpEd was a moment I my doubts eliminated that racism isn't a collateral damage, FoxNews directly capitalizes on it.

(Truth be told I've been avoiding Fox for a long long time. I watched Iraq's televised invasion on Fox and fondly remember the statements of ZERO American casualties when the European news agencies reported dozens of US Soldiers dead. Absurd).
-----

My blood is still boiling about the death of Daniel Shaver:
https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/msr11e

That one is beyond shitty, and yet ignoring the lack of conviction, the department rehired the officer long enough to grant a pension. You would expect that you would not need a conviction to strip him of all departmental rank and privileges, as these are administrative issues that do not require such a burden. That to me suggests they need to gut the department.

By "a feature, not a bug", I assume you mean that it makes White people (including conservatives) aware that this could also happen to them or someone they know?

The Atlantic has a decent article on this one.


I'm just disappointed that this isn't sufficient to take down the entire department. I would have much preferred to see it under FBI investigation with all of them out of work permanently after something like that. On a further side note, I'm going to see if I can find anything on that case. I don't see how a jury arrived at an acquittal here.
 
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P_X

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By "a feature, not a bug", I assume you mean that it makes White people (including conservatives) aware that this could also happen to them or someone they know?
That OpEd was so bad, it really unraveled the editorial priorities, which are to discredit the notion of police racism at all cost. The stupidity wasn't accidental, it was because the timing was more important and complex analyses are too difficult for their readership.
I'm just disappointed that this isn't sufficient to take down the entire department. I would have much preferred to see it under FBI investigation with all of them out of work permanently after something like that. On a further side note, I'm going to see if I can find anything on that case. I don't see how a jury arrived at an acquittal here.
It's a failure of the system every step of the way. Also, no cop should ever be allowed to use a gun with "You're fucked" etched on it.

Addendum:
It's also the land of the free, yet the tone the cops afford themselves would not fly in truly 1st world countries. (I consider the USA a hybrid of 1st and 3rd world, depending on your financial situation).
 
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thekev

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It's a failure of the system every step of the way. Also, no cop should ever be allowed to use a gun with "You're fucked" etched on it.

Addendum:
It's also the land of the free, yet the tone the cops afford themselves would not fly in truly 1st world countries. (I consider the USA a hybrid of 1st and 3rd world, depending on your financial situation).

Yeah I'm with you on all of it. That's why I'm saying you would need to gut entire departments for that kind of shit. Other people must have seen his service weapon, yet that piece of garbage remained a cop.
 

P_X

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Yeah I'm with you on all of it. That's why I'm saying you would need to gut entire departments for that kind of shit. Other people must have seen his service weapon, yet that piece of garbage remained a cop.
Check out what his widow is saying:
1. It was he personal AR15
2. He got APPROVAL by the department to use it for work. They were aware of the text on it
4. The cop applied for PTSD pay
5. Filed for bankruptcy
6. He specifically requested to be able to keep his You're fucked murder weapon

Bankruptcy and pension[edit]​

In January 2018, Brailsford filed for bankruptcy.[4] In early 2018, the United States Department of Justice opened its own investigation into Shaver's killing.[3]

In August 2018, Brailsford was reinstated by the Mesa Police Department, staying for a further 42 days in what the department described as a "budget position". The department agreed to reimburse Brailsford for medical expenses related to post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD). Brailsford's lawyer has said that Brailsford suffered PTSD due to his shooting of Shaver and the resultant criminal trial. The reinstatement allowed Brailsford to apply for "accidental disability" suffered during the course of work. As a result, Brailsford was unanimously approved to be retired on medical grounds. Brailsford was also given a pension of $2,500 per month. The fact that Brailsford was ultimately medically retired instead of remaining fired was only revealed to the public in July 2019.[4][5][39] According to a pay stub attached to Brailsford's bankruptcy file, he has been working for a steel company in Glendale, Arizona.[40]

Now that's a fucking perverse incentive. They can kill someone to retire early...
 

thekev

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Check out what his widow is saying:
1. It was he personal AR15
2. He got APPROVAL by the department to use it for work. They were aware of the text on it
4. The cop applied for PTSD pay
5. Filed for bankruptcy
6. He specifically requested to be able to keep his You're fucked murder weapon



Now that's a fucking perverse incentive. They can kill someone to retire early...

I was having trouble with the video earlier, so I looked up the Atlantic article. I was able to get it working by clicking through. It played embedded in reddit, just not from here. It hung on the ad. I get your point even more now about Fox's nonsense actually being a feature, and yeah, I would like to see the networks give more coverage to policing issues in general, regardless of the victim's race. Fox is silly in that they did it for the wrong reasons. The widow is remarkably composed for having suffered that, and she adds a lot of detail, but all of that is just complete garbage.

Even if acquitted by a jury, everything in your list suggests the department he worked in is run by bad cops.
 

Scepticalscribe

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numerically the ratio of police killings is 2:1 favoring Whites, so the caller isn't entirely wrong. Proportionally though, there's plentyfold higher impact on Blacks. That said I've seen plenty of "snuff" videos of White people being assaulted by cops too. Just as upsetting.

Re police killings of whites, I suspect that social class may play a role here; if I had to speculate, I would suggest that of those whites who are killed by police, the majority probably come from less well off, or less socially advantaged, backgrounds.
 

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JFC ...


 

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This story is not about broken bones, pools of blood or chemical agents, but it is nonetheless brutal.

The police tracked child pornography traffic to an IP address attached to one David Allen Jones, so they arrested him. The bond was $15,000, which he could not post, so he sat in jail, losing all his friends because they trusted and believed the police.

It took them more than a year to rifle through his equipment (how much computer things will a man who cannot post the bond, which is typically 10% of the actual number, have that need to be gone through?) and find no evidence, so they released him.

Fourteen months in lockup is quite enough to trash a normal person's life. Add the insult that he was innocent of the charges (or at the very least only looked at it online with some sort of non-caching viewer without ever keeping any files). But that is not enough: the state sent him a bill for $4008 for the cost of hosting him in the Iron Inn (because state law includes that).
 

Eric

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JFC ...


I get the question about whether the officer could've used a taser or shot the woman in the leg but if someone is that close to killing me with a knife, as the video clearly shows, then I'm not blaming the him for acting. In this case he may have very well saved the victims life.

Screen Shot 2021-04-22 at 5.29.08 PM.png
 

Thomas Veil

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I get the question about whether the officer could've used a taser or shot the woman in the leg but if someone is that close to killing me with a knife, as the video clearly shows, then I'm not blaming the him for acting. In this case he may have very well saved the victims life.

Screen Shot 2021-04-22 at 5.29.08 PM.png
I've been getting annoyed watching even the MSM flog this story all day, likely because it's "topical" because of George Floyd.

But yes, if you read the actual info, it seems pretty clear that this cop shot this girl in the act of trying to stab another with a knife. And yes, maybe he could've used a taser depending on how close he was and how close the perp was to stabbing the other girl. But unless some other kind of information comes forward (and I can't imagine what that would be), I'm not gonna second guess what happened. The news media can push this story all day. They can go F themselves.
 

SuperMatt

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I've been getting annoyed watching even the MSM flog this story all day, likely because it's "topical" because of George Floyd.

But yes, if you read the actual info, it seems pretty clear that this cop shot this girl in the act of trying to stab another with a knife. And yes, maybe he could've used a taser depending on how close he was and how close the perp was to stabbing the other girl. But unless some other kind of information comes forward (and I can't imagine what that would be), I'm not gonna second guess what happened. The news media can push this story all day. They can go F themselves.
I don‘t like the focus on this story either. The implication seems to be “see if you don’t let the cops kill people, then the cop in THIS case wouldn’t have been allowed to save the possible stabbing victim!” Chauvin wasn’t doing his job. He killed a man for no reason, in broad daylight. It was nothing like this whatsoever. A false equivalency.
 
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