RIP RIP RBG

Eric

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Can't believe I just quoted myself, but boy was I way off. It didn't even last 2 hours before Moscow Mitch said a Trump nominee would get a full senate vote.
Hypocritical piece of shit rat bastards, every last one of them. McConnell's face needs to be in ads everywhere with his own words:
“The American people should have a voice in the selection of their next Supreme Court Justice, therefore, this vacancy should not be filled until we have a new president.”
 

GermanSuplex

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Cursing is allowed, correct?

I of course feel saddened about her death, but selfish too - because we are not in normal times. It's not a normal administration where you'd mourn first, then sort of think "Darn, they get a seat, oh well", then go about your business. We were literally hoping no more changes would come until the orange dipshit was out of office.

Trump's presidency is a lot like his life - his biggest accomplishments have nothing to do with him so much as luck. His biggest accomplishment has always been the croctch he was yanked out of, much like his own spawn. His father was alive until 1999, so he's really been on his own 20 years or so. And he's lucked his way through life and right into the presidency. America so hated having a black man as president for 8 years they elected the first dimwitted racist to drop the PC act.

Now, he may get to further rat-fuck the country with a third Supreme Court pick. A Supreme Court where three of the judges are Donald Trump appointees. Sometimes, anytime I hear the words "President Donald Trump" I have to remind myself its real. Like you would if you heard "Secretary of State Pee Wee Herman" or "Vice President Lil Wayne".

I do feel bad for her passing, I really do, but I'd be lying if "FUCK" wasn't the first thought that came to mind.

Pardon the language.
 

lizkat

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I was on my landline when a notification about RBG showed up on my iPhone on the desk and I just stopped talking while my mind tried to take in what I was looking at there. My friend on the other end of my phone convo started saying "hello.. are you still..." and then I heard her phone ding with a notification too and she said "oh my god" and we both said we felt like 2020 was trying to kill us all.
 

Mark

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Oh deep in my heart
I do believe
We shall overcome someday

i will not let this tragic event's implications take over my life.

i will not give in to the dark forces that are overtaking America; and quietly resist, and network.

i will work to give comfort to so many of us who are grieving RBG's passing.

if McConnell does confirm another Brett, i will persevere. and fight.

We shall all be free
We shall all be free
We shall all be free someday





joan baez's 1964 voice and her piercing, determined eyes in 2009 Prague, give hope.
 
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Renzatic

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I was on my landline when a notification about RBG showed up on my iPhone on the desk and I just stopped talking while my mind tried to take in what I was looking at there.

That's almost exactly what happened to me. I was sitting here, my phone dinged, I looked at the news, and said "awww, shit..."

I guess there are no situations so interesting they can't become more interesting at a moment's notice.
 

lizkat

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That's almost exactly what happened to me. I was sitting here, my phone dinged, I looked at the news, and said "awww, shit..."

I guess there are no situations so interesting they can't become more interesting at a moment's notice.

Yeah... but this does feel like some serious overload on our circuitry in the USA right now...

Still trying to process McConnell coming out within hours of the announcement RBG had died and saying they'd definitely take Trump's replacement nomination through full Senate confirmation.

Either way it could potentially be disastrous. Imagine if something to do with the presidential election lands in the high court in the meantime with an 8-count bench leaning 5-3 to the right. Or if Roberts decides to punt, then 4-4. Wow.
 

ronntaylor

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Watching Wheel of Fortune when ABC News broke in during the final spin. My first thought was "Oh-My-Fucking God!"

My 2nd thought was: how long before McConnell confirms that there will be a vote? Doesn't really matter because I knew immediately that the Mango Turd will get his 3rd appointment before the election. No way will McConnell pass up this opportunity to showcase his hypocrisy and racism in furtherance of the most racist President in recent history. Even if the Dems somehow hold up the nomination, the Supremes will be a 5-3 Conservative majority. Goodbye Roe v Wade. Goodbye Civil Rights. Just when you thought 2020 couldn't get any shittier.
 

Renzatic

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Either way it could potentially be disastrous. Imagine if something to do with the presidential election lands in the high court in the meantime with an 8-count bench leaning 5-3 to the right. Or if Roberts decides to punt, then 4-4. Wow.

Imagine if Trump contests the election after a Biden win, and it ends up being decided in his favor 5-3 by his freshly rushed Conservative majority court?

The turd is dangling over the fan here, folks.
 

lizkat

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Yeah it could get ugly.

I really didn't see this coming. I mean we all knew RBG was so ill but.. she was so strong too. Can't get my head around it and how bad this is looking. I have to hope maybe some old school Senator like Grassley might join Murkowski and Collins and maybe-baby Romney just on principle... and after all, Grassley had said in 2018 that he would not vote on a high court nominee in 2020...

 

ronntaylor

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Months ago I predicted that 45 would have a great chance of winning in November. I think RBG's passing may ensure his re-election. He's fucked the election process with USPS shenanigans. He's packed the Federal courts with ultra-conservatives "judges" and now this is the icing on the cake. McConnell will ensure a vote for his nominee. The GOP will confirm him (doubt the Mango Turd) will nominate a woman.

And the saddest part is that the Dems will probably roll over and allow this all to happen. True, there isn't much they can do. But they have to fight like hell against a nomination and stay focused on keeping the election as clean and fair as possible. I'm most afraid that a certain pick -- say James Ho -- would paralyze them. They will be afraid of the optics of going against the 1st _______ SCOTUS nominee. They must prepare as if for war. The GOP has been fighting one for decades.
 

Thomas Veil

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For me, last night definitely had a “Where were you on 9/11” vibe.

I went to my TV to see what others were saying. Rachel Maddow, who normally is a rock during troubled times, looked stunned. She was, very professionally, doing her job, but there was an I-can’t-believe-this catch in her voice.

I definitely wanted to see Bill Maher’s take. His show has gone back to the studio (safely distanced), and it airs live at 10 pm ET.

To my great surprise, he goes through an entire opening monologue and doesn’t mention it. I wondered if the event happened so late that he felt talking about it in the monologue would bring the whole thing down. But then he doesn’t talk about it with his remote or studio guests, either.

Until 10:40. Just before doing a remote interview with Jane Fonda he mentions that the monitor at the side has just messaged him that RBG has died.

Then he went to Fonda, who looked positively mortified.

In the remaining 10 minutes or so they discussed what they could, but one thing really stood out to me. Maher mentioned something—a study or a person he read—that talked about countries which have been on the edge of losing their democracies...which is where we are now.

He said in such cases, only one in five countries was able to pull itself back from the brink. :oops:

Think about that. If you dare.

As far as why Maher didn’t mention RBG earlier, I can only assume that he pre-taped the show earlier in the evening. He’s been doing that with shows that feature remote interviews. In case, I guess, something technical goes wrong.

Anyway, I literally had to take some Benadryl to be able to sleep last night. ☹️
 

Scepticalscribe

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For me, last night definitely had a “Where were you on 9/11” vibe.
........

In the remaining 10 minutes or so they discussed what they could, but one thing really stood out to me. Maher mentioned something—a study or a person he read—that talked about countries which have been on the edge of losing their democracies...which is where we are now.

He said in such cases, only one in five countries was able to pull itself back from the brink. :oops:

Think about that. If you dare.

.......

Anyway, I literally had to take some Benadryl to be able to sleep last night. ☹

On this matter, I think it worth noting that the EIU (Economist Intelligence Unit) currently (2019 stats) ranks the US as "a flawed democracy" rather than as "a full democracy."
 

Thomas Veil

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We are in very real danger of becoming worse. Supposing Trump doesn't accept the results of the election, even if he loses. Or suppose he tries to cut off the counting while he's still ahead. He can get the backing of a Republican-tilted Supreme Court. At that point it doesn't matter if the Democrats have a majority of Congress...Trump can have the AG challenge anything they do and the SC overrule it.

And as far as future elections, Trump has already expressed interest in a third term, and his voters are even taking a shine to Trump Jr. Never mind flawed democracy...we're close to becoming one of those countries that is a fake democracy. Sure they have elections, but the results are pre-ordained.
 

Eric

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We are in very real danger of becoming worse. Supposing Trump doesn't accept the results of the election, even if he loses. Or suppose he tries to cut off the counting while he's still ahead. He can get the backing of a Republican-tilted Supreme Court. At that point it doesn't matter if the Democrats have a majority of Congress...Trump can have the AG challenge anything they do and the SC overrule it.

And as far as future elections, Trump has already expressed interest in a third term, and his voters are even taking a shine to Trump Jr. Never mind flawed democracy...we're close to becoming one of those countries that is a fake democracy. Sure they have elections, but the results are pre-ordained.
If it were to come down to that I think the people would rise up like we've never seen before and storm the WH, I would be among them.

Still hoping we have enough of a victory on election day to put this whole thing to bed, this is still a good possibility but we can't let up.
 
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lizkat

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In the remaining 10 minutes or so they discussed what they could, but one thing really stood out to me. Maher mentioned something—a study or a person he read—that talked about countries which have been on the edge of losing their democracies...which is where we are now.

He said in such cases, only one in five countries was able to pull itself back from the brink. :oops:

Think about that. If you dare.

Maher was possibly talking about one of several projects or studies (Rand, Bright Line,Varieties of Democracy), all of which have more or less concluded what you bolded there and several of which were referenced in a recent WaPo piece:


“The United States is not unique” in its decline, said Staffan I. Lindberg, a political scientist at Sweden’s University of Gothenburg and a founding director of the [Varieties of Democracy or V-Dem] project. “Everything we see in terms of decline on these indicators is exactly the pattern of decline” seen in other autocratizing nations, like Turkey and Hungary, both of which ceased to be classified as democracies in recent years.

Lindberg refers to presidential attacks on the pillars of democracy as “dictator drift,” and says it’s a common feature of authoritarian leaders around the world. “That’s Erdogan in Turkey,” he said. “That’s Lukashenko in Belarus. That’s Orban in Hungary. That’s a slew of African dictators.”

He’s concerned about the rise of a sort of “sultanistic” power structure in the GOP, where the party largely abandons its core principles to support whatever the leader wants. The telltale sign of that, he said, was the GOP’s decision to not create a 2020 platform. Instead, it issued a resolution saying, among other things, that “the Republican Party has and will continue to enthusiastically support the President’s America-first agenda.”

Respect for a constitution, an independent judiciary plus apolitical law enforcement and military leadership are some of the last obstacles a would-be autocrat must overcome to topple a more democratic form of government.

The independence of those judicial and administrative entities are also a part of the sometimes lingering (if only partial) checks on a one-time democracy gone over at least temporarily to autocratic rule.

The courts and the military in Turkey, for instance, had in the past often kept that republic on a secular path, and inclined enough towards Western concepts of separation of powers that the country was accepted into the EU. Under Erdogan however, there has been widely noted political interference with both the courts and prosecution for at least the past five years.​
As for a free press, that's usually one of the first things to be compromised by a would-be dictator, and Turkey cracked down on that big time after the failed 2016 coup. In the USA, Trump's disregard for facts and constant derogation of the press via his notorious "fake news" brandings have sown confusion among the public as to what is true or false and even whether that matters.... which precisely serves his wish that people look to him for guidance on everything. Within his own administration, Trump makes an effort now to sever employees who disagree with him or try to present information he does not wish to acknowledge. Even at this late date in his term of office, Trump now ramps up criticism of his own hand-picked head of the FBI because that director has disagreed with him publicly in testimony regarding Antifa and Russian interference in our elections.​
Bottom line to me it's not a good sign that a sycophantic Republican party --so consciously divorced from platform and principle to overcome its hopelessly fissured, often completely irrational viewpoints-- and so willingly complicit with Trump's scofflaw brand of corruption, now proposes to ignore its own quite recently set precedents about considering a high court nominee so late in a president's term.
There's no there there in that pale shadow of "the Republicans"... except a naked grab for retention of power at all costs. It's a conclusion by current GOP "leaders" that the party does not have enough of a popular following to control legislation or guarantee continuance of executive power, so settles on packing the courts as its one way of suppressing the will of a majority of US citizens.
 

Scepticalscribe

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We are in very real danger of becoming worse. Supposing Trump doesn't accept the results of the election, even if he loses. Or suppose he tries to cut off the counting while he's still ahead. He can get the backing of a Republican-tilted Supreme Court. At that point it doesn't matter if the Democrats have a majority of Congress...Trump can have the AG challenge anything they do and the SC overrule it.

And as far as future elections, Trump has already expressed interest in a third term, and his voters are even taking a shine to Trump Jr. Never mind flawed democracy...we're close to becoming one of those countries that is a fake democracy. Sure they have elections, but the results are pre-ordained.

If 1), the Dems win, (the presidency, that is, and taking the Senate - while a considerable challenge - would be very nice, too), and 2), the margin of victory leaves little, or no room, for doubt, about the result, then, while Mr Trump will throw tantrums, and become increasingly unhinged, it will be difficult for other organs of the state to support him should he wish to behave in an illegal and undemocratic manner, and decline to leave office on the appointed date.

However, if the result is close, - a narrow Democrat victory could lead to a nightmare scenario, especially if Mr Trump challenges the legitimacy or validity of some votes, and his efforts at voter suppression are somewhat (rather than extravagantly) successful, or, worse, if there is a striking divergence (yet again) between the popular vote and the results returned by the electoral college, then, I fear an autumn of unrest, as Mr Trump seeks to retain office and power, and a serious test of whether the institutions (and constitution) of the country are sufficiently sturdy and robust to withstand this.
 

Scepticalscribe

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The courts and the military in Turkey, for instance, had in the past often kept that republic on a secular path, and inclined enough towards Western concepts of separation of powers that the country was accepted into the EU. Under Erdogan however, there has been widely noted political interference with both the courts and prosecution for at least the past five years.​
As for a free press, that's usually one of the first things to be compromised by a would-be dictator, and Turkey cracked down on that big time after the failed 2016 coup.​

@lizkat: I know it is a quote, but I really cannot abide to see such carelessness, especially from commentators "on our side"; apart from the fact that it is plain wrong, it gives ammunition to "the other side" when "we" get such basic facts wrong.

Fact: Turkey is not a member of the EU, never was, and - at this stage - is very unlikely, surpassingly unlikely, to be considered as a candidate for opening accession talks.

Under its previous leader (Mr Ozal, a secular moderate and a democrat), talks on conditions to be met - many of which Turkey did meet, unilaterally - before opening accession negotiations, did indeed take place.

However, even the thought of the possibility of Turkish membership of the EU served to torpedo the referendum on the EU treaty to establish a constitution for Europe in both France and the Netherlands in 2005; likewise, this fear was undoubtedly a factor - though not by any means the major, or only one - in influencing the outcome of the Brexit referendum in England in 2016.

Now, personally, (a private, personal opinion, this), I think it a tragedy that the EU was not more open to the idea of membership for a secular democratic (if Muslim) Turkey.

Actually, I think that we "missed the bus" in not supporting this at the time, and deeply regret it. It would have offered an extraordinary, alternative role model for Muslim countries that wished to embark on a more democratic and progressive path - and, worse, it contributed to a political climate in Turkey where progressives were undermined (because it was clear that whatever a democratic Turkey did - and, in fairness, it did a lot around 20 years ago - to meet EU requirements, would be deemed insufficient by significant numbers of the west European electorate). Thus, national identity became increasingly defined in terms of conservative Islam, and autocratic and authoritarian traditions, as the country pivoted, or swivelled away from, the part of its political culture that looked to Europe as a socio-political-cultural role model, or source worth emulating.
 
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