Rising crime will hurt Democrats

SuperMatt

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Found another development in this case:


So with the murder charge, they upped the bail to $750K. He paid it and is out.

In areas with no cash bail like DC, they either remand you to custody or let you go home depending on the risk of flight and risk to the community. When you put a dollar amount on it, dangerous criminals with a lot of cash can be out pre-trial anyway.

So cash bail did nothing to keep an accused murderer from going home. He came up with the goods. Cash bail making you feel safer now?

Interesting note about this case too: the cop apparently has a pretty bad service record, and it seems possible that the defendant will be using self-defense - basically claiming Sgt. Rios was not in uniform and was the aggressor in a road-rage incident and fired first?

Attorneys for Soliz have outlined their defense, saying Rios was the aggressor in a road rage incident last November that led to a shootout along the North Freeway feeder road and the officer's death. Soliz claims he did not know Rios was a police officer and that he shot him in self-defense.

 

GermanSuplex

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The challenge is to get people to not think defunding police means just starving departments of funds. Conservatives, as usual, are not going to look beneath the surface and take the phrase and run. Much like immigration, CRT and race issues, they boil it down to simple, easy to digest and spread ideas. And it works. “Defund the police” as a slogan is not a winner, but the ideas behind it are absolutely necessary. If we spent money on better social services instead of tanks for the police department, maybe we’d avoid killing unarmed mentally disturbed people. If we have bonuses to cops to live in the neighborhoods they police, it would maybe result in more money being saved than fighting costly lawsuits when the cops kill unarmed people.

Of course, COVID is partially to blame for the rise in crime, and republicans are using that to their advantage, but they forget a lot of this was taking place under Trump. But they just shift the goal posts to the first democrat can they can, be it mayor, governor or president so they can pin it in “democratic-run” cities or states.
 

SuperMatt

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Yup, this is what cracked me up in this article. Like Texas' prime swagger is that they provide illegal guns to the whole country (southern, rural white gun owners "lose" >100K guns a year in the USA), if they are supposed to punish people for having a gun they aren't very good at it, LOL.


I've lived in 3 "murder capitals" in the USA. My wife and I regularly walked to work/took public transport in all of these cities. If the perceptions were true of people who only experience these places from the news, we'd have been murdered to death on a weekly basis. There's an interesting thing in America:

1) There is a very high rate of preventable gun violence
2) Yet people still manage to overestimate the danger/violence in the cities.
I read the gun law… it appears to be written in such a way as to be something they can “pile on” when pulling somebody over or arresting them for something else:


Note it also targets only handguns. I assume (but not sure) that means if you are carrying an AR-15 in the same manner, you are not liable? And it’s also interesting to me that while most guns are legal, these items are not:

One crime unique to Texas is that of illegally carrying a weapon other than a firearm. Unless you have a state handgun concealed carry license, it is illegal to carry around or transport any kind of weapon in Texas. Illegally carrying is usually a Class A misdemeanor unless it is carried to special places. It is then a third degree felony.

In Texas, a weapon is a club, nightstick, blackjack, knife whose blade is greater than 5 ½ inches in length, spears, and swords except at your place of business or if being transported for a legitimate reason.

This dude is in serious trouble if he ever visits Texas:

1626050248135.jpeg
 

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I read the gun law… it appears to be written in such a way as to be something they can “pile on” when pulling somebody over or arresting them for something else:


Note it also targets only handguns. I assume (but not sure) that means if you are carrying an AR-15 in the same manner, you are not liable? And it’s also interesting to me that while most guns are legal, these items are not:



This dude is in serious trouble if he ever visits Texas:

1626050248135.jpeg

@Herdfan, do you sense the irony here? This is an example. In Texas, which is a Republican run state what you are referring to is a misdemeanor and not a felony. The result of the misdemeanor classification was a police officer being shot and killed.
Do you think some of these misdemeanors should be felonies?
 
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Chew Toy McCoy

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Other than nuking Fox News and the Daily Wire from orbit, what can Dems do to change perceptions of things in that echo chamber?

Fewer people every year associate themselves with the GOP. Something good is happening for the Dems as seen in the last election… is it even worth worrying about when right-wingers believe nonsense?

Barrowing from a Joe Walsh podcast episode, historically speaking when there’s a Democrat in the white house they lose control of congress in the mid term and vice versa. Right now Democrats need Trump even more than Republicans do because him and his boot lickers in congress are the only thing that will fire up Democrats to show up to vote in the midterms to fight Trumpism.

So I’d be careful what you wish for if it’s hoping Trump or coverage of him will just go away. That will be the quickest path to Democrats falling asleep for the mid terms and McConnell controlling the country again.
 
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Chew Toy McCoy

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My point is: what is the suggested solution to changing perceptions of people who assume liberals are liars and only Trump is telling the truth?

Like I mentioned in another thread (or possibly this one), top Republican lies need to be a near daily loud top news story. I realize that will only happen on liberal news sources but it will also force the right to respond to it if it’s always present. There’s a lot of “This is what they are saying on [insert news source here]” battles going on right now.
 

theSeb

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I'm also pro death penalty, the only real issue I have with it is how long it takes with all the appeals. Once it's established beyond a reasonable doubt it should be carried out and that's that IMO. When you see the horrific and gruesome acts of murder some of these people have committed it's baffling that their granted such leniency.
I also used to be pro death penalty many years ago, but then somebody showed me the research showing the number of innocent people executed, as per @ronntaylor . The person also showed me studies proving that due to the (necessary) appeals process taking so many years and the costs associated with it, we (tax payers) end up paying the same amount, or more, to execute someone, versus keeping them in jail for life.

So, the end conclusion for me was what is the point of executing people, other than to satiate our own hunger for "revenge"? If just one person is executed by the state when they are innocent, that is one too many in my opinion.
 
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theSeb

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I seem to recall a time when Democrats were the ones who were better at messaging and controlling the narrative. Now it seems the bulk of their strategy is to look on in horror or disapproval at whatever the Republicans are selling. It reminds me of the SNL Clinton vs Trump debate sketches where Hillary spent most of the time smiling at Trump as he seemed to bury himself with every word that came out of his mouth.

And why isn’t “Top Republican lies on…..” the top permanent story on liberal news? Occasionally I’ll see a story about that but it’s way buried. It should be the top story, not just because it needs to be told, but also because Republican politicians and conservative news are well aware of what liberal news is reporting. They’ll have no choice but to respond if this is the top daily story. If they want to volley back with similar stories about Democrat lies I say have at it. I think it’s equally important that be reported but will come nowhere near the mountain of insane lies coming from Republicans.
I have to agree with this. Democrats need a better PR firm to help simplify and sell their messages to the masses.
 

SuperMatt

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The challenge is to get people to not think defunding police means just starving departments of funds. Conservatives, as usual, are not going to look beneath the surface and take the phrase and run. Much like immigration, CRT and race issues, they boil it down to simple, easy to digest and spread ideas. And it works. “Defund the police” as a slogan is not a winner, but the ideas behind it are absolutely necessary. If we spent money on better social services instead of tanks for the police department, maybe we’d avoid killing unarmed mentally disturbed people. If we have bonuses to cops to live in the neighborhoods they police, it would maybe result in more money being saved than fighting costly lawsuits when the cops kill unarmed people.

Of course, COVID is partially to blame for the rise in crime, and republicans are using that to their advantage, but they forget a lot of this was taking place under Trump. But they just shift the goal posts to the first democrat can they can, be it mayor, governor or president so they can pin it in “democratic-run” cities or states.
The right is losing their minds over CRT and anti-racism. I was talking to some (very) conservative types and asked them what they meant by anti-racism… so they posted the definition from some dictionary site. After discussing the fact that nobody should be angry at that definition, they then expand the definition to basically anything they are upset about… affirmative action, the book “White Fragility,” etc, etc. They think anti-racism is part of some left-wing conspiracy... 🤦‍♀️
Like I mentioned in another thread (or possibly this one), top Republican lies need to be a near daily loud top news story. I realize that will only happen on liberal news sources but it will also force the right to respond to it if it’s always present. There’s a lot of “This is what they are saying on [insert news source here]” battles going on right now.
This happens constantly on Twitter. As for the “liberal” news sites, they are actually not as liberal as right-wingers claim, and they are focused on the news, not on Tucker Carlson’s latest ramblings. It’s quite convenient for the GOP that Fox is popular and has zero scruples when it comes to its “journalism.” As I said before, gotta put them out of business along with Daily Wire.
 

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The right is losing their minds over CRT and anti-racism. I was talking to some (very) conservative types and asked them what they meant by anti-racism… so they posted the definition from some dictionary site. After discussing the fact that nobody should be angry at that definition, they then expand the definition to basically anything they are upset about… affirmative action, the book “White Fragility,” etc, etc. They think anti-racism is part of some left-wing conspiracy... 🤦‍♀️
Welp, maybe because they are....well....racist?:D The fact that a zip code is a stronger determinant of life expectancy, academic achievements than race, and how certain zip codes got populated and funded is a very very good measure of segregation. Conservatives do know that segregation works...because it has to.

This happens constantly on Twitter. As for the “liberal” news sites, they are actually not as liberal as right-wingers claim, and they are focused on the news, not on Tucker Carlson’s latest ramblings. It’s quite convenient for the GOP that Fox is popular and has zero scruples when it comes to its “journalism.” As I said before, gotta put them out of business along with Daily Wire.
Honestly when the level of misinformation is that great, something major is bound to happen. Most of us are shocked that it wasn't the pandemic (though it may still be if the vaccination maps continue correlating with the electoral map), but sooner or later this will backfire.
 

SuperMatt

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@Chew Toy McCoy - I saw a couple articles and I thought of you and this thread.

(Paywall removed from NY Times article)

(This one probably has a paywall)

Here’s another overriding principle that might work: Frame everything around the basic goal of ensuring that Republicans are the ones on the defensive.

This might include asking anti-critical race theory Republicans why they think our cadets are such snowflakesthat they must be shielded from hard truths about their country’s past. Or asking why Republicans are doing far too little to encourage GOP voters to endure a little pinprick to protect their friends, relatives and neighbors from dying of a deadly disease. Or why they’re trying to bury the truth about their own party’s complicity in an effort to sack the U.S. government with mob violence.

Ask yourself this: Why is it that Democrats spend far more time denying lies — that they want to indoctrinate your children with white shame and send jackbooted government thugs to kick down your doors and force vaccines on you — than Republicans spend denying any of those charges against them, which are true?

 
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Chew Toy McCoy

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@Chew Toy McCoy - I saw a couple articles and I thought of you and this thread.

(Paywall removed from NY Times article)

(This one probably has a paywall)




Like I alluded to, one of those articles mentions all the suburban voters that soured on Trump. That’s why I feel it’s imperative to keep Trump in the spotlight so those voters get a constant reminder of how much he still has control of the party. Failing to cover Trump and his rabid politicians doesn’t mean he doesn’t have control of the party. It means they aren’t being reminded and probably won’t be motivated to vote against Trumpism.

I have my issues with Biden but at the same time, unless something monumentally successful happens, he will probably go down in history as mostly a President that was put there so Trump wouldn't be, forever in his shadow, which is kind of a disappointing endnote to a long political career.
 

Herdfan

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I have my issues with Biden but at the same time, unless something monumentally successful happens, he will probably go down in history as mostly a President that was put there so Trump wouldn't be, forever in his shadow, which is kind of a disappointing endnote to a long political career.

Kind of like Trump was elected so Hillary wouldn't be.

I guess it is going to fall on who the people blame for rising crime. Are they going to blame national, state or local politicians? I personally think national politicians have little to do with rising or falling crime. They may make some policies than can affect the disposition, but when it comes to actual boots on the ground fighting it, they are not to blame nor should they get much credit.
 
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Chew Toy McCoy

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Kind of like Trump was elected so Hillary wouldn't be.

I guess it is going to fall on who the people blame for rising crime. Are they going to blame national, state or local politicians? I personally think national politicians have little to do with rising or falling crime. They may make some policies than can affect the disposition, but when it comes to actual boots on the ground fighting it, they are not to blame nor should they get much credit.

Agreed about Trump vs Hillary.

What they should be doing is blaming the economy and our brand of capitalism and that goes well past Biden and Trump. Cost of living has gone through the roof while wages have stagnated for decades. We’ve also been brainwashed to believe predictable and cyclical major recessions are completely normal and unavoidable. Those who cause them get rewarded, not punished.

The only thing that has given the illusion of a healthy middle class is massive debt. Crime goes down when there is a healthy middle class and massive debt isn’t healthy…and is barely keeping the declining middle class afloat. Unfortunately in these type of realities where nobody seems to want to truly address the issue with honesty and action politicians like Trump always rise to the top as a possible solution.
 

JayMysteri0

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Like I alluded to, one of those articles mentions all the suburban voters that soured on Trump. That’s why I feel it’s imperative to keep Trump in the spotlight so those voters get a constant reminder of how much he still has control of the party. Failing to cover Trump and his rabid politicians doesn’t mean he doesn’t have control of the party. It means they aren’t being reminded and probably won’t be motivated to vote against Trumpism.

I have my issues with Biden but at the same time, unless something monumentally successful happens, he will probably go down in history as mostly a President that was put there so Trump wouldn't be, forever in his shadow, which is kind of a disappointing endnote to a long political career.
I think to the majority of us who voted for Biden, that was the PRIMARY reason to prevent a 2nd 45 administration. The bulk of us had other choices, but the sad reality was that it was believed Biden was the one MOST would rally behind. NOT because he was most first choice. Biden's career will always have the high note of following a president considered one of the worst, for simply NOT wanting to do his job and address a global pandemic. There's a reason why a meme comparing 45 to Nero resonates.

I think what ultimately shows that Biden was the right choice at that time, is taking a look at how many "crises" we've had according to his critics in the short time he's been in office. With the 44th president things were occasionally dragged out. With Biden we are burning thru what, a "crisis" a month? Anyone still wringing their hands while sporting army surplus fashion on gunboats in faux concern over the border? 🤨 At this point we could just make a conservative talking point spinning wheel, by the end of Biden's first year, they will be repeating crises because they've cried so much. Republicans used to mock a spinning Hilary excuse wheel, now they've ironically come full circle and it's a faux outrage spinning wheel to avoid doing their jobs.

There will always be a new "crisis" now it's crime, next month or so Afghanistan, the one real crisis will be the ever unpredictable economy for the next year as we try to get out of the whole dug by the last administration. The focus shouldn't be on 45, it should be on a republican party that shows the same absolute lack of desire to handle any true crisis we face. Too many have hitched their economic & political future to 45 with zero concern for their fellow Americans. THAT'S what needs to be driven home. That there are lawyers like the 'kraken' team who are facing their due. That there are unqualified 'cyberninjas' allowed to carry around the ballots of another state's voters.

You can try to appeal to the 'suburban' vote, but there's only one thing you need to do. Focus on what's in their best self interest. Is it their children might learn we had slavery, or is it that they may find themselves catching a variant of covid in school? Focusing on the party is a distraction. Focus on what LITTLE 45 & his party actually do for their real well being, is in my opinion the way to go.

Don't like the price of gas now? Maybe if we didn't have a pandemic rage uncontrollably and it was addressed by the THEN president you wouldn't have that. Don't like air travel now? Maybe if a little more oversight went into bailout money, insuring contractors, people barely making a living wage, weren't the ones thrown to the wayside to save some money. Those same contractors you need to help airlines handle the crush they are facing. We all know how we got into the hole we are in now, what's important is to show who's trying to help us get out of it. As opposed to seeing who's pandering about cherry picked crime stats, culture wars, and CRT.
 
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SuperMatt

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I think to the majority of us who voted for Biden, that was the PRIMARY reason to prevent a 2nd 45 administration. The bulk of us had other choices, but the sad reality was that it was believed Biden was the one MOST would rally behind. NOT because he was most first choice. Biden's career will always have the high note of following a president considered one of the worst, for simply NOT wanting to do his job and address a global pandemic. There's a reason why a meme comparing 45 to Nero resonates.

I think what ultimately shows that Biden was the right choice at that time, is taking a look at how many "crises" we've had according to his critics in the short time he's been in office. With the 44th president things were occasionally dragged out. With Biden we are burning thru what, a "crisis" a month? Anyone still wringing their hands while sporting army surplus fashion on gunboats in faux concern over the border? 🤨 At this point we could just make a conservative talking point spinning wheel, by the end of Biden's first year, they will be repeating crises because they've cried so much. Republicans used to mock a spinning Hilary excuse wheel, now they've ironically come full circle and it's a faux outrage spinning wheel to avoid doing their jobs.

There will always be a new "crisis" now it's crime, next month or so Afghanistan, the one real crisis will be the ever unpredictable economy for the next year as we try to get out of the whole dug by the last administration. The focus shouldn't be on 45, it should be on a republican party that shows the same absolute lack of desire to handle any true crisis we face. Too many have hitched their economic & political future to 45 with zero concern for their fellow Americans. THAT'S what needs to be driven home. That there are lawyers like the 'kraken' team who are facing their due. That there are unqualified 'cyberninjas' allowed to carry around the ballots of another state's voters.

You can try to appeal to the 'suburban' vote, but there's only one thing you need to do. Focus on what's in their best self interest. Is it their children might learn we had slavery, or is it that they may find themselves catching a variant of covid in school? Focusing on the party is a distraction. Focus on what LITTLE 45 & his party actually do for their real well being, is in my opinion the way to go.

Don't like the price of gas now? Maybe if we didn't have a pandemic rage uncontrollably and it was addressed by the THEN president you wouldn't have that. Don't like air travel now? Maybe if a little more oversight went into bailout money, insuring contractors, people barely making a living wage, weren't the ones thrown to the wayside to save some money. Those same contractors you need to help airlines handle the crush they are facing. We all know how we got into the hole we are in now, what's important is to show who's trying to help us get out of it. As opposed to seeing who's pandering about cherry picked crime stats, culture wars, and CRT.
You mean focus on real issues instead of outrage over imagined issues? I don’t think you understand the mind of the Republican voter. Luckily, their numbers are shrinking daily.

In the minds of many Trump voters, they will always believe that Mexican or Black people are stealing “their” jobs. As long as you’ve got George Wallace Richard Nixon Ronald Reagan Donald Trump on the ballot playing to that crowd, they will get their votes. That’s what the 24/7 CRT and anti-racism “coverage” is truly about. The whole “well anti-racism is really about (insert conspiracy here)” is them pretending there’s some legitimate reason for them to be mad at anti-racism.
 

Herdfan

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Not really sure what to make of this, but hey it's not from FoxNews:


I don't know that it will help now as most of them are on video or in print wanting to defund. That will be hung around their neck at election time no matter what they try to do now.
 
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Chew Toy McCoy

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Not really sure what to make of this, but hey it's not from FoxNews:


I don't know that it will help now as most of them are on video or in print wanting to defund. That will be hung around their neck at election time no matter what they try to do now.

I might be kind of lazy not researching this here, but I've heard from multiple sources that not one Democrat who won in 2020 ran on a defund the police platform.
 

Herdfan

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I might be kind of lazy not researching this here, but I've heard from multiple sources that not one Democrat who won in 2020 ran on a defund the police platform.

The "Squad" did, but in those districts like Pelosi said "A glass of water with a D beside its name could win in that district".
 

SuperMatt

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The "Squad" did, but in those districts like Pelosi said "A glass of water with a D beside its name could win in that district".
People on the right seem VERY concerned about a small group of far left Democrats, all the while ignoring that their party is overrun with extremists, to the point where the more reasonable members are being taken off committees and marginalized.

Let us know when the crazies are no longer running the show in the GOP before you start fretting over the small number of people calling for defund the police on the left.
 
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