Russia prisoner trade: basketball player for terrorist arms dealer

[Chew Toy McCoy]

Viktor Bout: Russian arms dealer known as the 'Merchant of Death' swapped for Brittney Griner | CNN

US basketball star Brittney Griner was freed in a prisoner exchange for convicted arms dealer Viktor Bout nearly 10 months after she was arrested at a Moscow airport.

www.cnn.com

Doesn't get much more American than that. War criminals get to walk while sports players get elevated to the highest of human value.

 

[Alli]

There’s just no good way to exchange prisoners — especially when one is an actual criminal.

 

[Citysnaps]

Biden made the right decision having an obligation to bring unfairly imprisoned Americans home. Though not the full 25 years, Bout has been in prison for 14 years. I'm OK with that.

Edit: Apparently Bout was scheduled to be released in August 2029.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

My question is how many US political prisoners are out there that we don't know about? Not because it's a closely guarded secret, but because they don't tick as many boxes as a young black gay female pro basketball player?

 

[Citysnaps]

My question is how many US political prisoners are out there that we don't know about? Not because it's a closely guarded secret, but because they don't tick as many boxes as a young black gay female pro basketball player?

Currently 17 in Russia.

Edit: But don't know the circumstances of the arrests/imprisonments, or how many are legit/political/fair/unfair/etc.

 

[lizkat]

My question is how many US political prisoners are out there that we don't know about? Not because it's a closely guarded secret, but because they don't tick as many boxes as a young black gay female pro basketball player?

I'll be crassly political here --second nature for me in or around election seasons-- and say that at least someone on the USA side appears to have made sure this exchange took place AFTER the runoff vote for the Senate in Georgia. I'm not one to lay bets, but that would have been a tempting one.

So not worth the GOP trying to weaponize that trade as "politically motivated" -- even if someone eventually suggests it, or already has done. About all they can do is point out what you said about the number of boxes ticked by Brittney Griner, perhaps in comparison to the number of boxes Paul Whelan might be thought to be holding while he waits.

From a WaPo piece on today's prisoner exchange, and status of Paul Whelan:

U.S. officials say they are still working to secure the release of the former Marine, who was arrested in Moscow in 2018, but claim he was not part of the negotiations for Thursday’s prisoner swap because his case is being treated differently by the Russians.

Confessions: life in a polarized America has made me far more crassly political than I would once have imagined I could become. Life in an America stripped of some of its formerly more sanitized mysteries has also made me tend to read between some of the lines in news stories about US citizens arrested for espionage, who are often portrayed by media as having been careless or naive, so not "spies."

I hope remaining US prisoners in Russia will be released in advance of having to serve full terms. If some are spies then they knew they ran that risk but one can still hope for them an early release or a prisoner exchange. If some were just detained because they were careless tourists or business travelers and easy to frame up, shame on Russia.... but all things considered, it may be unlikely for Putin to start running twofers on proposed prisoner exchanges, unless we have some high value Russian detainees I've not read about. And if Whelan was actually a spy then Putin is probably hanging onto him in case one of his own spies in the USA or a US-allied country gets tripped up...

 

[Citysnaps]

If some were just detained because they were careless tourists or business travelers and easy to frame up, shame on Russia.... but all things considered, it may be unlikely for Putin to start running twofers on proposed prisoner exchanges, unless we have some high value Russian detainees I've not read about.

And I wouldn't be surprised if some actually committed regular garden variety criminal acts; ie murder, robbery, theft, assault, etc. and have faced Russian justice.

 

[ronntaylor]

Being an international Basketball standout, Brittney Griner was a high profile kidnap victim. The fact that she is Black and lesbian were extra special reasons for false imprisonment at Putin's behest.

The so-called arms dealer served a considerable of jail time and the alleged U.S. spy was not going to be an even exchange. They'll probably want to exchange like for like.

The backlash is disgusting, yet expected. Including from salty segments of the Black community.

 

[AG_PhamD]

Being an international Basketball standout, Brittney Griner was a high profile kidnap victim. The fact that she is Black and lesbian were extra special reasons for false imprisonment at Putin's behest.

The so-called arms dealer served a considerable of jail time and the alleged U.S. spy was not going to be an even exchange. They'll probably want to exchange like for like.

The backlash is disgusting, yet expected. Including from salty segments of the Black community.

Yes and no. She was not kidnapped, she was lawfully arrested for breaking the laws in the country she was in. She was considered a drug smuggler as she was coming into the country which carries a 5 year minimum sentence.

That said, I think we can all agree however 0.7g of cannabis oil is not a “large quantity” of drugs by any means and it clearly was for personal use. I think we can all agree the sentencing is ridiculous, probably not in line with what would happen if she was a Russian citizen. Had she been reasonably sentenced under Russia law and wasn’t obviously being being used as a political pawn and a human bargaining chip, I would say tough luck. But that’s not exactly the case and she is in effect a political prisoner due to the unequal treatment under the Russian judicial system.

Was it a fair trade- no, but there never was going to be a fair trade here. Would this trade have happened or happened so quickly if she wasn’t a famous female athlete with minority status- I highly doubt it. Usually this process takes years.

I’m not going to say trading her for Bout was the wrong decision. If she was my wife or sister or mother or friend I would want the government to do whatever it took to get her back. I am sincerely happy that she safe and has been able to return home.

Americans should not travel to Russia. Period. Those that are there should leave. At this point I think the State Department should make a policy that if you’re in Russia and you get into legal trouble, you’re on your own. Russia will certainly continue to wrongfully arrest, trump up charges, and/or hand down disproportionate sentences to Americans so long as they know they can be used as bargaining chips.

 

[ronntaylor]

Yes and no. She was not kidnapped, she was lawfully arrested for breaking the laws in the country she was in. She was considered a drug smuggler as she was coming into the country which carries a 5 year minimum sentence.

https://twitter.com/angel_35/status/1555647476048199685

The State Department declared BG "Wrongfully Detained" for several reasons:

Irregularities in her arrest and detainment. Being targeted in the midst of the ramp up to the invasion of Ukraine. The amount is so small and supposedly is smaller than .07 oz as stated by the Russians as it includes the total weight of the other ingredients with the hashish oil.

Griner pled guilty and was playing the diplomatic game to get out as soon as possible; yet case hearings were repeatedly delayed while the Russians tried to orchestrate a prisoner swap. They used Griner's high profile -- a Black lesbian well-known for basketball in the US, Russia and internationally -- intentionally. The already harsh Russian criminal system was very harsh on Griner to force concessions from the Biden-Harris administration. Nothing more, nothing less. In most instances Griner would have been released shortly after sentencing with a prohibition to return to Russia. A sentence of 9-1/2 years under her circumstances was a show for the administration.

 

[ronntaylor]

And Paul Whelan was supposedly a Mango supporter

WATCH: Whelan Brother Tells MSNBC Trump Was ‘Not Interested’ In Detainee Cases — Biden ‘Much More Engaged’ In Bringing Them Home

David Whelan told MSNBC Biden's administration is "much more engaged" than Trump's was in seeking the release of wrongfully imprisoned Americans.

www.mediaite.com

“David Whelan, brother of detained American Paul Whelan, told MSNBC’s Zinhle Essamuah that President Joe Biden’s administration is “much more engaged” than former President Donald Trump’s was in seeking the release of wrongfully imprisoned Americans like his brother.

DAVID WHELAN: … "I think President Biden made the right choice, which is that an American should come home if they can come home… I think the first two years, partly I think the Trump administration was not prepared to or not interested in working on wrongful detention cases…The Biden administration is much more engaged in wrongful detentions and the executive order that President Biden passed or signed last year, plus the Levinson Act, have given the government more tools to help wrongful detainee families, but also to try to start to punish the nations who are doing that. So we’re seeing improvement...”

 

[AG_PhamD]

https://twitter.com/angel_35/status/1555647476048199685

The State Department declared BG "Wrongfully Detained" for several reasons:

Irregularities in her arrest and detainment. Being targeted in the midst of the ramp up to the invasion of Ukraine. The amount is so small and supposedly is smaller than .07 oz as stated by the Russians as it includes the total weight of the other ingredients with the hashish oil.

Griner pled guilty and was playing the diplomatic game to get out as soon as possible; yet case hearings were repeatedly delayed while the Russians tried to orchestrate a prisoner swap. They used Griner's high profile -- a Black lesbian well-known for basketball in the US, Russia and internationally -- intentionally. The already harsh Russian criminal system was very harsh on Griner to force concessions from the Biden-Harris administration. Nothing more, nothing less. In most instances Griner would have been released shortly after sentencing with a prohibition to return to Russia. A sentence of 9-1/2 years under her circumstances was a show for the administration.

I’m not sure you read past my first paragraph.

The 9.5 year sentence is clearly political and she never had a chance in the kangaroo courts of Russia. It was right to try to get her out of an unfair sentence that would never have been imposed on a Russian. That said, she still broke the Russian law, regardless of how we feel about their laws. Keep in mind this a country that has banned Methadone and Suboxone use for opioid addiction, they’d rather just have their addicted population die. To my knowledge no one has ever claimed drugs were planted on her. HAD the Russian government given her a sentence in-line with what a normal Russian citizen would be charged with, that would be one thing. Clearly that was not the case.

And just to highlight the ridiculousness of the Russia criminal “justice” system, it was 0.7 GRAMS, not ounces. That’s less than 0.025 ounces.

I think the best way to look at this trade is not as comparison of who committed a worse crime. Instead, who has more to offer society in being a positive contributing member of society. In that sense getting Griner back was total a win.

 

[SuperMatt]

I’m not sure you read past my first paragraph.

The 9.5 year sentence is clearly political and she never had a chance in the kangaroo courts of Russia. It was right to try to get her out of an unfair sentence that would never have been imposed on a Russian. That said, she still broke the Russian law, regardless of how we feel about their laws. Keep in mind this a country that has banned Methadone and Suboxone use for opioid addiction, they’d rather just have their addicted population die. To my knowledge no one has ever claimed drugs were planted on her. HAD the Russian government given her a sentence in-line with what a normal Russian citizen would be charged with, that would be one thing. Clearly that was not the case.

And just to highlight the ridiculousness of the Russia criminal “justice” system, it was 0.7 GRAMS, not ounces. That’s less than 0.025 ounces.

I think the best way to look at this trade is not as comparison of who committed a worse crime. Instead, who has more to offer society in being a positive contributing member of society. In that sense getting Griner back was total a win.

That small an amount is not a crime that involves any kind of trial or jail time in Russia. For imprisonment, the law says you must have over 6 grams. They ignored that law and charged her as a drug dealer with zero evidence of that.

Her “crime" was no more serious than parking illegally and she should have been fined at most. Enough with the equivalencies already!

Cannabis in Russia - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

This was NOT about her breaking the law. It was a political move by Russia. Enough with saying “she still broke the Russian law” when the law they charged her with breaking was dealing drugs... something she clearly wasn’t doing.

 

[AG_PhamD]

That small an amount is not a crime that involves any kind of trial or jail time in Russia. For imprisonment, the law says you must have over 6 grams. They ignored that law and charged her as a drug dealer with zero evidence of that.

Her “crime" was no more serious than parking illegally and she should have been fined at most. Enough with the equivalencies already!

Cannabis in Russia - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

This was NOT about her breaking the law. It was a political move by Russia. Enough with saying “she still broke the Russian law” when the law they charged her with breaking was dealing drugs... something she clearly wasn’t doing.

Apparently it is not uncommon for people to be in possession of drugs despite being under the decriminalized limit in Russia. It’s also not uncommon for the Russian court system to delay cases so people rot away in jail for months on end. I think it was her own lawyers who said anything beyond 3 years should be considered political. She wasn’t charged with drug possession, she was charged with drug smuggling.

This is what happens when you have a country without a legitimate legal system. They have a conviction rate of 99% and obviously not because they only try cases that they know they will win.

 

[Herdfan]

This was NOT about her breaking the law. It was a political move by Russia. Enough with saying “she still broke the Russian law” when the law they charged her with breaking was dealing drugs... something she clearly wasn’t doing.

Definitely a political move. Granted, I am not a huge fan of hers based on the kneeling, but 9 years for what she actually did is way out of bounds.

What I don't understand from Russia's standpoint is how it might affect other foreign players from coming to play for Russian teams. Or even players playing for other European teams being willing to travel into Russia for games. Even worse, will other national teams be willing to going into Russia to play? This will most likely hurt Russia long-term. Or I at least hope it does.

 

[Eric]

Definitely a political move. Granted, I am not a huge fan of hers based on the kneeling, but 9 years for what she actually did is way out of bounds.

What I don't understand from Russia's standpoint is how it might affect other foreign players from coming to play for Russian teams. Or even players playing for other European teams being willing to travel into Russia for games. Even worse, will other national teams be willing to going into Russia to play? This will most likely hurt Russia long-term. Or I at least hope it does.

I think at this point any American going there would be crazy, your chances of becoming a political pawn are pretty good. I did hear another WNBA player say that they make a ton of money over there compared to the US so there is a lot of temptation, would be nice to see demand here rise to those levels.

 

[SuperMatt]

I think at this point any American going there would be crazy, your chances of becoming a political pawn are pretty good. I did hear another WNBA player say that they make a ton of money over there compared to the US so there is a lot of temptation, would be nice to see demand here rise to those levels.

With all the money the NBA has, their pay for WNBA players is inexcusably low. Lindsey Whalen, one of their biggest stars, retired in 2018. She was making $110K a year. Average salary was about $70k. Russian leagues were paying over a million per year. If the WNBA paid better, none of them would have to go there for the kind of compensation elite athletes should get. But clearly none of them will be going back anytime soon.

 

[ronntaylor]

I’m not sure you read past my first paragraph.

Read it. And reread it. It was always political. @SuperMatt already shows how she shouldn't even have been charge. In all likelihood she was targeted once the ramp up to the invasion and resulting sanctions were aired.