Shooting in Portland

[SuperMatt]

Truly a shame. People need to cool down.

Man shot dead in Portland during clashes between Trump supporters, BLM

A man was shot dead in Portland on Saturday night as ugly scenes unfolded amid clashes between Trump supporters and BLM. The Facebook page behind the Trump caravan encouraged gun carrying.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Alli]

It’s time to allow everyone their protest. Counter-protests should stop. If nothing else, it will be easier to see where the police are on the matters. They can hardly show up for one and not the other, right?

 

[Eric]

Trump supporters are banding together, provoking those on the streets. Apparently, nothing makes them angrier than citizens taking a stand against police killing unarmed black people.

Can't we just keep it peaceful?

 

[BigMcGuire]

Trump supporters are banding together, provoking those on the streets. Apparently, nothing makes them angrier than citizens taking a stand against police killing unarmed black people.

Can't we just keep it peaceful?

That's a very one sided statement. Only the Trump Supporters are provoking? From the videos I've seen, this is not the case (I'm seeing both sides instigating).

Also --- White People fighting and dying to free slaves (in your image) by the hundreds of thousands. Quite a few white people fought for the north.

That said, I think things are going to get a whole lot worse before they get better, especially if we keep preventing the police from doing their jobs.

 

[Eric]

That's a very one sided statement. Only the Trump Supporters are provoking? From the videos I've seen, this is not the case (I'm seeing both sides instigating).

Also --- White People fighting and dying to free slaves (in your image) by the hundreds of thousands. Quite a few white people fought for the north.

That said, I think things are going to get a whole lot worse before they get better, especially if we keep preventing the police from doing their jobs.

Yes, white Trump supporters are doing the provoking, nothing one sided about that as it's the truth. For example, in Portland there's been civil unrest in downtown streets for months now, Trump supporters have been banding together in the suburbs and then as a mob going into those streets to confront protesters.

To be clear:
BLM protesters are taking to the streets to against the system.

Trump supporters are taking to the streets against BLM protesters.

Huge difference.

 

[BigMcGuire]

Yes, white Trump supporters are doing the provoking, nothing one sided about that as it's the truth. For example, in Portland there's been civil unrest in downtown streets for months now, Trump supporters have been banding together in the suburbs and then as a mob going into those streets to confront protesters.

To be clear:
BLM protesters are taking to the streets to against the system.

Trump supporters are taking to the streets against BLM protesters.

Huge difference.

I still have a hard time understanding or even agreeing with the argument that sending police in CAUSES these riots. Now your - to be clear, yes, understood, that I agree with.

From what I've seen - people are getting tired of the unrest, the inability (intentional) of the police to do their jobs so they're going to go try to bring things back to normal. This is a massive recipe for disaster.

It takes two to tango. I don't think blaming one side for this works. That's like blaming my wife for getting mad when I am an ass to her. (An example only).

Edit: The YouTube videos I've seen of violence on the streets over the last week, it is not JUST the Trump protesters doing the provoking.

 

[BigMcGuire]

In Portland, Man Is Fatally Shot in Another Night of Unrest

One person was killed Saturday in Portland, Ore., amid unrest that rocked the city after police said a caravan of Trump supporters took to the streets and clashed with protesters.

www.wsj.com

I much prefer the first paragraph from this:

"One person was killed Saturday in Portland, Ore., amid unrest that rocked the city after police said a caravan of Trump supporters took to the streets and clashed with violent protesters." - WSJ.

I do not think this is one sided at all.

"“This points to a larger issue that we have seen in Portland for the last three months,” Chad Wolf, the acting secretary of homeland security, said Sunday morning on ABC-TV’s “This Week.” “And that is local and state officials not allowing law enforcement to do their job and really to bring this violent activity night after night to a close.”" - WSJ.

 

[BigMcGuire]

Can't we just keep it peaceful?

AMEN. Let police do their jobs. Keep weapons away from protests. Agreed. This is only getting worse.

 

[JayMysteri0]

In Portland, Man Is Fatally Shot in Another Night of Unrest

One person was killed Saturday in Portland, Ore., amid unrest that rocked the city after police said a caravan of Trump supporters took to the streets and clashed with protesters.

www.wsj.com

I much prefer the first paragraph from this:

"One person was killed Saturday in Portland, Ore., amid unrest that rocked the city after police said a caravan of Trump supporters took to the streets and clashed with violent protesters." - WSJ.

I do not think this is one sided at all.

While it maybe phrasing you prefer, you are overlooking the consistent word. "Clashed" The two sides couldn't "clash" if one side hadn't set out to go to where the protestors have been. Otherwise the common story has been protestors "clashed" with police again. The only difference from this story and the recurring stories, is this "clash" somehow didn't meet Portland police's rather flexible definitions of what a riot is. That's the thing I thought interesting, since I wonder what was different in THIS incident?

 

[SuperMatt]

That's a very one sided statement. Only the Trump Supporters are provoking? From the videos I've seen, this is not the case (I'm seeing both sides instigating).

Also --- White People fighting and dying to free slaves (in your image) by the hundreds of thousands. Quite a few white people fought for the north.

That said, I think things are going to get a whole lot worse before they get better, especially if we keep preventing the police from doing their jobs.

The entire narrative about preventing police from doing their jobs stinks to high heaven. Some cops whine because they aren’t allowed to teargas everybody in their entire city, or beat up every black person they see. If cops had done their job properly in the first place, there wouldn’t be protests to deal with. If they didn’t antagonize peaceful protesters by tear gassing them when they were just standing around, they wouldn’t have disoriented, angry people running around!

Police are not being prevented from doing their job. They are being told not to do it in a certain way... and that way is brutal and discriminatory. They are getting paid. They are adults. Quit whining like the toddler-in-chief.

And then a load of malarkey about how nice the white people were to the slaves in the 1800s by fighting for their freedom? Wow, is this what they teach at the Unite the Right preschool? The Union didn’t invade to free the slaves... the Confederacy started the war by attacking Ft Sumter. Oh, and after the war, the next President after Lincoln immediately reneged on the reconstruction and reparations that were supposed to be afforded to slaves... and that wasn’t even a handout - it was supposed to be a loan.. so don’t say it was black people looking for a handout... another typical right-wing attack. History education has completely evaporated in America, apparently.

 

[Eric]

AMEN. Let police do their jobs. Keep weapons away from protests. Agreed. This is only getting worse.

We tried that and they keep shooting unarmed black people. Clearly, you have zero idea of why people are protesting to begin with.

 

[BigMcGuire]

While it maybe phrasing you prefer, you are overlooking the consistent word. "Clashed" The two sides couldn't "clash" if one side hadn't set out to go to where the protestors have been. Otherwise the common story has been protestors "clashed" with police again. The only difference from this story and the recurring stories, is this "clash" somehow didn't meet Portland police's rather flexible definitions of what a riot is. That's the thing I thought interesting, since I wonder what was different in THIS incident?

OK noted.

Is it just me or does the 600 car caravan sound insane. 600 cars is an INSANE amount of cars. I wonder if they meant 60 or if it was really 600. That's freaky.

 

[SuperMatt]

While it maybe phrasing you prefer, you are overlooking the consistent word. "Clashed" The two sides couldn't "clash" if one side hadn't set out to go to where the protestors have been. Otherwise the common story has been protestors "clashed" with police again. The only difference from this story and the recurring stories, is this "clash" somehow didn't meet Portland police's rather flexible definitions of what a riot is. That's the thing I thought interesting, since I wonder what was different in THIS incident?

‘More examples of how the police treat right-wing protesters. This example is great because they let a very violent protest by the Proud Boys go on earlier in the day, and then later in the day, declared a much smaller gathering of the left-wing a “riot.” They aren’t even pretending to be fair. They hate BLM because BLM is calling them out.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/08/22/portland-police-far-right-protest/

 

[BigMcGuire]

Police are not being prevented from doing their job. They are being told not to do it in a certain way... and that way is brutal and discriminatory. They are getting paid. They are adults. Quit whining like the toddler-in-chief.

And then a load of malarkey about how nice the white people were to the slaves in the 1800s by fighting for their freedom?

The police are being told not to instigate the crowds and let them do what they want. Have you not been following this?

And where the FUCK did I say white people were nice to the slaves? How bout not putting words in my mouth? I did say that hundreds of thousands of white people died fighting for the north.

We tried that and they keep shooting unarmed black people. Clearly, you have zero idea of why people are protesting to begin with.

Clearly. Not sure how my views indicate that but if you believe so, then so be it if that makes you happy.

 

[SuperMatt]

While it maybe phrasing you prefer, you are overlooking the consistent word. "Clashed" The two sides couldn't "clash" if one side hadn't set out to go to where the protestors have been. Otherwise the common story has been protestors "clashed" with police again. The only difference from this story and the recurring stories, is this "clash" somehow didn't meet Portland police's rather flexible definitions of what a riot is. That's the thing I thought interesting, since I wonder what was different in THIS incident?

Police don’t care that right-wingers had plans to use Molotov cocktails against the police because they’d rather be mad at Antifa:

Leaked Documents Show Police Knew Far-Right Extremists Were the Real Threat at Protests, Not “Antifa”

An analysis of leaked law enforcement documents reveals an obsession with “antifa” despite evidence of threats of violence to police and protesters.

theintercept.com

 

[SuperMatt]

The police are being told not to instigate the crowds and let them do what they want. Have you not been following this?

And where the FUCK did I say white people were nice to the slaves? How bout not putting words in my mouth? I did say that hundreds of thousands of white people died fighting for the north.

Clearly. Not sure how my views indicate that but if you believe so, then so be it if that makes you happy.

White People fighting and dying to free slaves

They weren’t defending slaves, they were defending themselves from other white people.

I have been following the fact that cops were previously antagonizing the crowds and now have stopped. Violence has gone down in almost all cases because of it!!!! It is their JOB to do what the mayor and police chief tell them. If they don’t like it, quit.... lots of people need a job right now.

 

[JayMysteri0]

OK noted.

Is it just me or does the 600 car caravan sound insane. 600 cars is an INSANE amount of cars. I wonder if they meant 60 or if it was really 600. That's freaky.

From the article I read this morning, the Facebook invite has 2500 attendees for this. So even if a portion, 600 is not out of the question. Mind you it was supposedly groups as well joining along.

https://www.opb.org/article/2020/08/30/portland-trump-cruise-rally-protest-rogue-river-pendleton/

A man uses a truck to drive into and through anti-fascist counterprotesters at a pro-Trump caravan through Portland, Ore., Aug. 29, 2020.

Jonathan Levinson / OPB

⬆ THAT is NOT counter protesting! If you're not Portland police, you'd probably call that "clashing".

 

[BigMcGuire]

We tried that and they keep shooting unarmed black people. Clearly, you have zero idea of why people are protesting to begin with.

How about trying to get me to to see rather than just dismissing? That doesn't help me at all.

I do not believe that I have zero idea of why people are protesting to begin with. I have a paid subscription to Washington Post, NYT, The New Yorker --- even as a conservative. I believe I have a very clear idea why people are protesting.

Why people are rioting, killing, destroying the livelihoods of thousands? No, I don't understand that.

 

[BigMcGuire]

They weren’t defending slaves, they were defending themselves from other white people.

I have been following the fact that cops were previously antagonizing the crowds and now have stopped. Violence has gone down in almost all cases because of it!!!! It is their JOB to do what the mayor and police chief tell them. If they don’t like it, quit.... lots of people need a job right now.

Noted. I've heard many views on the civil war - from the south (both sides - whites and blacks) and from outside of the south.

I don't know if I'd agree with you that violence has gone down. If the media is to be believed at all - it seems like violence is going way up. ??? If you mean - was going down before Trump supporters started taking matters into their own hands - ah gotcha.

I would not want to be a police officer right now.

 

[Eric]

From the article I read this morning, the Facebook invite has 2500 attendees for this. So even if a portion, 600 is not out of the question. Mind you it was supposedly groups as well joining along.

https://www.opb.org/article/2020/08/30/portland-trump-cruise-rally-protest-rogue-river-pendleton/

⬆ THAT is NOT counter protesting! If you're not Portland police, you'd probably call that "clashing".

I'm from that area and the suburbs are full of racists, huge trucks and rude ass Trump supporters. A perfect example of rural America.