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P_X

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What seemed obvious to me apparently isn’t obvious to everybody. I can accept that; let’s move on. This is really entering troll territory at this point.
To get this topic back on track...in my personal experience, healthcare is generally the least racist work sector. This is why Nigerian parents tell their kids to get medical or pharmacy degrees, as they are much more likely to succeed in this field than with an MBA.
 
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Gutwrench

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What seemed obvious to me apparently isn’t obvious to everybody. I can accept that; let’s move on. This is really entering troll territory at this point.

i haven’t any doubt you’d like to move on from post 2 by slipping in a dark unmarked suburban and slide on outta here. Then toss aside reason, accountability, logic, objectivity, and simple fairness out the window once you hit the freeway because so you clearly don’t know how to use those inconveniences.
 

P_X

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i haven’t any doubt you’d like to move on from post 2 by slipping in a dark unmarked suburban and slide on outta here. Then toss aside reason, accountability, logic, objectivity, and simple fairness out the window once you hit the freeway because so you clearly don’t know how to use those inconveniences.
Dunning Kruger Effect strikes again.
.
 

P_X

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It does seem that doctors are valued based on their skills and expertise moreso than in other fields.
It also collects a lot of altruistic people. It's just that altruism can burn out with you. Which happens to most at one point.
 

ericgtr12

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i haven’t any doubt you’d like to move on from post 2 by slipping in a dark unmarked suburban and slide on outta here. Then toss aside reason, accountability, logic, objectivity, and simple fairness out the window once you hit the freeway because so you clearly don’t know how to use those inconveniences.
Okay, let's try to refrain from these brutal attacks here. We're open to heated debate but this is crossing the line.

Let's also try to stay on topic and somewhat civil here. And @Renzatic you're getting your own thread, I'll create it and move those posts into it. :mrgreen:
 

P_X

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To examine some of the circumstances, state-wide they are stretched but have had a 20% headroom in terms of ICU capacity. (According to some of my intensivist friends the goal is about <75% occupancy to be able to accept an unexpected surge of patients).

1609134233841.png
 

Gutwrench

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Okay, let's try to refrain from these brutal attacks here. We're open to heated debate but this is crossing the line.

Let's also try to stay on topic and somewhat civil here. And @Renzatic you're getting your own thread, I'll create it and move those posts into it. :mrgreen:

lol...Ambien strikes again. I haven’t a clue what it says. At least I didn’t buy a refrigerator shelf from Amazon with expedited shipping this time. lol
 

Eraserhead

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To summarize this in a one-liner:

OP is ignorant, and everybody who replied to this thread except @Gutwrench is an incompetent thinker.

Got that about right? Why waste your time talking to a bunch of idiots? Surely you can find people with IQs of 200 like yourself instead of the proletariat here.
I think @Gutwrench may have a point.

Women as a group aren’t listened to as much as men with regards to pain as per https://www.amazon.co.uk/Invisible-Women-Exposing-World-Designed/dp/1784706280/ref=sr_1_1

However on race how much of the issue is a general lack of income/wealth for blacks and/or that predominantly black areas in the south of the US have very poor healthcare.

Edit: looks like I replied to an old post. I’m confused 😀
 
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P_X

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I think @Gutwrench may have a point.

Women as a group aren’t listened to as much as men with regards to pain as per https://www.amazon.co.uk/Invisible-Women-Exposing-World-Designed/dp/1784706280/ref=sr_1_1

However on race how much of the issue is a general lack of income/wealth for blacks and/or that predominantly black areas in the south of the US have very poor healthcare.
Or you can argue it's was the time of the year, or the hospitalists patient load, etc. For example if I want to be facetious, I can point out that you guys are dismissing that (as far as I saw in the videos) she herself complained about not getting adequate care because of being black and not because of being a female. She wasn't in the South and she was receiving care at a university hospital.

You can argue that she was hypoxic and under the influence of narcotic pain medications, but she seems to have capacity and expresses herself coherently on the videos. The line of facts and perceptions go like this here:

A) She complained of getting subpar care
B) She had the perception that she received poor care/communication because of being black
C) She had an outcome that definitely triggered a quality-of-care evaluation

Fact A is supported by Fact C. While Fact B may or may not link Facts A and C together, it is on its own is an outcome that good communication tends to prevent with great efficacy. What happens in this thread? The guy who has in the past advocated for us not to consider logical inconsistencies in others' values as a flaw but to "accept them as just different values and perceptions" now preaches about this tough-minded bullshit. Concurrently, he recreates the communication style that consistently lead to perceptions like described in Fact B.

One of my professors used to emphasize that bad communication will evoke the nocebo effect in patients, and even though you can't fix everything, what you should always strive for is to elicit a placebo effect in your patients. Soft skills matter a lot. So for example, what Dr Moore claimed is that she was told "You're not even short of breath" is a excellent nocebo trigger and very inappropriate communication. The source of such interaction is probably burnout and a shorter fuse (it happens to many of us at some point), but again implicit bias studies suggest that Blacks are more likely to be on the receiving end of such.
 

Eraserhead

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Or you can argue it's was the time of the year, or the hospitalists patient load, etc. For example if I want to be facetious, I can point out that you guys are dismissing that (as far as I saw in the videos) she herself complained about not getting adequate care because of being black and not because of being a female. She wasn't in the South and she was receiving care at a university hospital.

You can argue that she was hypoxic and under the influence of narcotic pain medications, but she seems to have capacity and expresses herself coherently on the videos. The line of facts and perceptions go like this here:

A) She complained of getting subpar care
B) She had the perception that she received poor care/communication because of being black
C) She had an outcome that definitely triggered a quality-of-care evaluation

Fact A is supported by Fact C. While Fact B may or may not link Facts A and C together, it is on its own is an outcome that good communication tends to prevent with great efficacy. What happens in this thread? The guy who has in the past advocated for us not to consider logical inconsistencies in others' values as a flaw but to "accept them as just different values and perceptions" now preaches about this tough-minded bullshit. Concurrently, he recreates the communication style that consistently lead to perceptions like described in Fact B.

One of my professors used to emphasize that bad communication will evoke the nocebo effect in patients, and even though you can't fix everything, what you should always strive for is to elicit a placebo effect in your patients. Soft skills matter a lot. So for example, what Dr Moore claimed is that she was told "You're not even short of breath" is a excellent nocebo trigger and very inappropriate communication. The source of such interaction is probably burnout and a shorter fuse (it happens to many of us at some point), but again implicit bias studies suggest that Blacks are more likely to be on the receiving end of such.
That’s me refuted.
 

P_X

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That’s me refuted.
Your point shared with @Scepticalscribe is valid tough. It isn't easy to be a female patient for many reasons. The most objective one is that preclinical drug testing mostly takes place in male rats/mice. Then women experience some weird (minor) drug side-effect and we either don't believe them, or throw our hands in the air like, "I have no idea what's going on."
 
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