ICE Vehicles: General topics

[DT]

A couple days ago one of my tires (2012 Fiat 500) reported low pressure (about 25psi) so I topped them all off using my portable cigarette lighter outlet powered air pump. The next day I came out and got a low pressure warning on my right rear tire. I checked it and it was completely flat. Thinking I had picked up a nail, I refilled it and let it sit the rest of the day, no leak, and then the next day I drove it about and pressure is holding. I guess there could be a nail that is now holding in the air. I don’t think a mischievous passerby decided to empty my tire of air, so I’ll keep an eye on it.

Maybe the valve got stuck when you were topping them off, and when you filled that tire it "unstuck".

 

[bunnspecial]

@bunnspecial

First, yes, there's only one M3, I always try to use TM3 or M3P when talking about my car

I totally understand the desire to have easily swapped vehicles, it was one of the drivers behind me trading my '16 GT for my '19 GT (6-speed manual to 10-speed auto). Personally, where I'm at now, I haven't missed the manual - heck, in the last 3 months, I haven't missed __gears__ at all.

Interesting that BMW has moved away from DCT as the "auto" option in their performance models, to a more traditional 8-speed automatic. I'd guess cost, complexity of the DCT vs. regular automatics getting really good (the A10 in my previous GT was definitely "not your Dad's automatic")

Anyway ...

Yeah, the giant nostrils, I ... have no words. Yeah, the 3 series non-M looks much better (the current top-of-the-line 3 is the M340i)

The IS500 is super interesting, first, Lexus, they're just fantastic (I owned one), and I can't say enough good things about the ownership experience (including the dealer interaction). A few years ago I came super close to buying the spiritual ancestor to the IS500, the IS F. I believe the V8 is about the same spec as it was back then, it's a stellar engine, a lot more like a Mustang, or even an F-car than the V8 in say, a Camaro/Charger, and it's a rare V8 + RWD sport sedan that's also not too far out there pricewise (like some of the Mercedes, and V8 optioned BMW M cars)

Yeah, the swapping vehicles is definitely a thing, especially now that she has a Jeep and all the issues that come with that . She's shopping also and right now a Pilot is top of the list-she wants a CUV/SUV(likes the high seating position) but she's often amazed(in a bad way) at how little her Compass will actually hold. Our "big" suitcases(American Tourister that are just a tiny bit under airline max check size) won't both fit in hers with the seats up. Meanwhile, my MKZ swallows them whole in the trunk with room to spare. We were hauling folding chairs over to the inlaws a few weeks ago-we have 8 of them and it's a game of tetris to fit them in hers, and once again just toss them in the trunk of the MKZ and off we go. The only time it comes up short is in height.

To be honest, a lot of the smaller CUVs just don't use space that efficiently, but that's a different story.

All of that aside, it's amazing to me that my now 11 year old car just keeps going, while it seems like it's something else every month on her 3 year old vehicle. Coils and plugs are on the to-do list in the next month since I'm at 90K and I can feel the occasional misfire under acceleration even if it won't throw a CEL. Consequently, if her car throws a CEL at 6:00 in the morning when she's leaving for work, or whatever else happens, she can grab my keys, hop in, hit the seat memory button(one of those little touches luxury cars still get you and it blew her mind the first time I showed her it even existed) and go on. I can then take the MG to work(don't tell Hagerty!) or drive hers and figure out what's ACTUALLY going on.

All of that said, I've never known anyone unhappy with the whole ownership experience with Lexus. It's looking like the IS500 might come in at a bit over $60K, which is a lot better than the M3 at over 80K. The 340i(sorry about the model mix up) starts out a lot lower, but BMW is really annoying with how they nickel-and-dime over little options. At least the M3 doesn't have a ton of that, and the M-Sport package gets a lot of stuff I'd want to option up.

As another little side rant, though, it seems like everyone wants a sunroof, and on some models/trims of cars you almost have to special order to get one without one. I've had one on each of my dailies and I'd frankly do without one. The one on my Maxima never gave me issues, but I also never used it. My Lincoln LS had a design defect(known and documented) where the drain tubes would shrink to the point where they'd no longer attach to the drains and all of a sudden your A pillar would start leaking in the rain. I finally hacked it together by cutting the factory drain tubes short WAY down the A pillar then running Tygon from the vents down to there, but that was a job and a half given how tight clearances are. Now my MKZ, if I inadvertently roll it back, for whatever reason won't close all the way forward again without help. The first time it happened, I spent two days chasing what I thought was something loose and scraping when it was just wind noise from an incompletely closed sunroof. Short answer-I never use them, have no use for them, and I have a bad track record of sooner or later having trouble with them.

We'll see what happens. Part of me says that I have no reason to part with the MKZ, but I've never been IN LOVE with it the way I have some of my other cars. It's just kept trucking along, though.

 

[bunnspecial]

And dozens of Plaid owners of the official MB, TMC, Reddit groups continue to say they would prefer a car without it.

i.e., exactly this:

Needless to say I haven't driven a car with one, but I'm still trying to wrap my head around how it's even safe.

Most modern 4-spoke wheels, including the one on my MKZ, give you an area to grip that roughly simulates the yoke. Since reading about it, I've tried driving a few times with just keeping my hands there. A lot of the driving techniques I learned just go completely out the window without the rest of the wheel there. As an example, I learned hand-over-hand steering for larger turns, and you can't do that when you don't have a wheel. I learned after a turn to slacken my grip on the wheel and let it naturally center, but still have my hand around it so that I could grab it if I could. There's also the bad but also common driving habits like one hand at the top.

I've driven things like go-karts that have something like the yoke, but they're also maybe 1 turn lock-to-lock. It seems to me like sharp turns with over 2 turns lock-to-lock are going to leave you contorted and make you take your hands off to continue the turn-the exact opposite of what you want to do in a critical maneuver.

That's just one guys opinion, and I'm sure some will discount it given my overall general dislike of the brand...

 

[DT]

@bunnspecial

I'd say your perspectives mirror my take, and dozens of other people, including some pro drivers, and even some reviews by safety organizations.

At around 4:26-4:27 (in that ring video posted ...) there's a hard left, and the driver's left hand just has a couple of fingers on the yoke, and his right is way over the top, almost down the 9 o' clock position, wrist and elbow all twisted up. If a driver was approaching that turn with a [round] wheel, they would've setup their hands, done a quick shuffle steer so that at full turn-in, they would be way over the 12 o' clock, all twisted up, and could've kept their left hand securely on the wheel.

 

[bunnspecial]

@bunnspecial

I'd say your perspectives mirror my take, and dozens of other people, including some pro drivers, and even some reviews by safety organizations.

At around 4:26-4:27 (in that ring video posted ...) there's a hard left, and the driver's left hand just has a couple of fingers on the yoke, and his right is way over the top, almost down the 9 o' clock position, wrist and elbow all twisted up. If a driver was approaching that turn with a [round] wheel, they would've setup their hands, done a quick shuffle steer so that at full turn-in, they would be way over the 12 o' clock, all twisted up, and could've kept their left hand securely on the wheel.

In general, watching that video, I feel like a lot of the turns are "sloppy" compared to vehicles with more conventional wheels. Here's one, for example, with an M3(the real one) and M2 on the track together



Watch hand position in particular between the two videos, it looks to me like the Plaid driver could have cut some of the wandering and taken the turns better if they weren't twisting their wrists into pretzels going around them. The M3 driver seems to keep speeds of 90+ km/h where the Plaid was dropping to ~80 in similar turns. I think, as is often the case in this sort of stuff, that Teslas in general can turn out good times in a situation like this because they're able to make up the lost speed in the curves so easily in the straights. That's nothing new-watch a race between say a 60s Mustang and a similar age Healey, Triumph, or even MG and the Mustang usually comes out on top because they can out-accelerate in the straights despite not being able to turn to save their lives. The little sportscars do surprisingly well in spite of having a lot less power because they can corner so much better.

To get back to the yoke, though, I definitely see points(like the one you mentioned) where, IMO, the Plaid driver could have shaved a few more seconds just by having a wheel to grab.

The ever-insufferable Musk seems to have dug his heels in on this, though, and apparently the yoke is going to be the only option on the Plaid. We'll see if the government agrees, though, and it may happen if there are accidents where better/more conventional controls would have helped.

 

[DT]

The ever-insufferable Musk seems to have dug his heels in on this, though, and apparently the yoke is going to be the only option on the Plaid. We'll see if the government agrees, though, and it may happen if there are accidents where better/more conventional controls would have helped.

Good video!

The real litmus test would've been to offer both steering options, track, and report on steering choice percentages.

And yeah, this is one of those times where you can't separate the personality of the CEO from the product, as this is purely a subjective design choice with him.

 

[DT]

The new Kia EV6 BEV (a sort of "twin" to Hyundai Ioniq 5) been getting pretty rave reviews:



Does quite a few things right, kind of a big deal for Kia in that it's their first vehicle that falls into a luxury segment, and it's an EV platform that will also be the foundation for a number of less expensive models.

 

[bunnspecial]

Good video!

The real litmus test would've been to offer both steering options, track, and report on steering choice percentages.

And yeah, this is one of those times where you can't separate the personality of the CEO from the product, as this is purely a subjective design choice with him.

I had that same thought as I was typing up that response.

I'd be shocked if the same driver weren't able to shave at least several seconds off with a wheel than the yoke and everything else otherwise the same.

Given how-as you say-the personality is inseperable from the product in this case, if that were done I seriously doubt the results would be made public.

 

[bunnspecial]

Another random thought, too not completely related to the yoke but on my comments on the drive above-

One of the things I've noticed is that Teslas have great 0-60 times-among the best for a 4-wheeled vehicle at any price point-but they often get beat by more powerful ICE in the quarter mile and longer as most powerful ICE cars are only starting to get wound up at ~60mph and EVs are often starting to run out of steam. 60-100mph or even 0-100mph times aren't always the easiest to find, and I'd be curious to see how the Plaid compares to higher end ICEs.

In a situation like the above, I mentioned earlier Teslas having an advantage accelerating back on the straights, but at the speeds involved I don't know how stark that advantage is. As always, just being able to keep your speed is better than dumping it and getting it back.

So, with that in mind, I'm wondering if Tesla is losing even more with the yoke causing more slow-down than might be needed with a wheel.

 

[DT]

Another random thought, too not completely related to the yoke but on my comments on the drive above-

One of the things I've noticed is that Teslas have great 0-60 times-among the best for a 4-wheeled vehicle at any price point-but they often get beat by more powerful ICE in the quarter mile and longer as most powerful ICE cars are only starting to get wound up at ~60mph and EVs are often starting to run out of steam. 60-100mph or even 0-100mph times aren't always the easiest to find, and I'd be curious to see how the Plaid compares to higher end ICEs.

In a situation like the above, I mentioned earlier Teslas having an advantage accelerating back on the straights, but at the speeds involved I don't know how stark that advantage is. As always, just being able to keep your speed is better than dumping it and getting it back.

So, with that in mind, I'm wondering if Tesla is losing even more with the yoke causing more slow-down than might be needed with a wheel.

The Plaid destroys most ICE vehicles in the 1/4 mile, it's running very low 9s over 150MPH, and it's consistent, and it doesn't lose power race after race.

This guy drag races a ton, hahaha, the track kept threatening to throw him off, I think there's a 9.50 breakpoint for requiring extra safety gear, then they let him run it wide open at some point:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtzceK2L9HqGp7utkkFP7MA

My M3P apparently runs pretty consistent 11.6-11.7, at 114-115 which is quick too, I mean, my 3rd Gen GT usually puts down higher MPH, but worse times unless setup on tires, etc.

That's the killer thing: stock, street tires (plus 4-doors )

 

[Scepticalscribe]

@bunnspecial: I was watching the most recent video from steph (idriveaclassic) this afternoon - I really enjoy her stuff, and it struck me - and this thought also struck me, while waiting for a bus yesterday, en route to the farmers' market - and watching cars drive by - that an extraordinary number of modern cars are really quite strikingly ugly.

Aesthetically ugly. Astonishingly so.

You mention the adjective "ugly" earler in this thread, when discussing BMW, but really, when contrasted with many motors from the 40s, 50s, 60s, indeed, 70s, - modern cars (perhaps, to my jaundiced eye) do seem to be exceptionally ugly, while some of the lines of some older models do seem attractive, to my bespectacled eye.

Any thoughts on this?

 

[bunnspecial]

@bunnspecial: I was watching the most recent video from steph (idriveaclassic) this afternoon - I really enjoy her stuff, and it struck me - and this thought also struck me, while waiting for a bus yesterday, en route to the farmers' market - and watching cars drive by - that an extraordinary number of modern cars are really quite strikingly ugly.

Aesthetically ugly. Astonishingly so.

You mention the adjective "ugly" earler in this thread, when discussing BMW, but really, when contrasted with many motors from the 40s, 50s, 60s, indeed, 70s, - modern cars (perhaps, to my jaundiced eye) do seem to be exceptionally ugly, whiel some of the lines of some older models do seem attrcative, to my bespectacled eye.

Any thoughts on this?

Styling does change, and one of my biggest dislikes now is some makers now treating grilles like they were treating tailfins in the 50s. If you look at a lot of modern higher performance cars, the front is nearly all grilles.

I've noticed too that the US Domestic makes are going for some "retro" designs of 80s cars-Ford has the Bronco and Jeep the Wagoneer, for example. Somehow or another, they manage to lose the charm of the old designs, and I think the new ones are not particularly attractive.

Some of the changes in appearance over the years have been governed by laws/regulations. The US is a large enough market that, at times, regulations here can impact the entire world, although some makers do make US models. There's also California-spec models, which sometimes have their own pecularities, but California is such a large market that it can sometimes dictate changes for all US models.

As an example, in the early 70s the US started requiring two things-bumpers that would not be damaged by a 5mph impact and bumper heights that would minimize pedestrian injury. To solve the former, many US cars started getting big blocky foam bumpers, and often the simple solution to bumper height was to raise the ride height of the entire car. That "uglied" a lot of US designs, especially on cars where the European version was unchanged.

Something big changed in the late 80s/early 90s that has had a big impact on the front of a lot of US cars. For a really long time, US headlights had to be a 7" sealed beam unit. Originally they were always round, but rectangular ones came along later. As headlights go, there's something to like about glass lenses that never fog or cloud, and the fact that you get a new and properly aligned reflector every time you change the light, but it didn't allow for a ton of variation. Things like pop-up headlights headlight covers were a product of that also.

Once manufacturers were free to design their own headlights, things changed a lot. Now, headlights use plastic lenses that integrate into the overall shape of the front of the car and can be distinctive as long as they meet regulations for brightness and pattern. Aside from individuality, that also actually had a big impact on fuel efficiency because it not only smoothed out the front of the car but also allowed more aerodynamic designs. To my eye, that's the single biggest reason why cars made since the 90s look so different from older vehicles...

 

[Herdfan]

In a situation like the above, I mentioned earlier Teslas having an advantage accelerating back on the straights, but at the speeds involved I don't know how stark that advantage is. As always, just being able to keep your speed is better than dumping it and getting it back.

You mention accelerating back on the straights. How is the transition between regen braking and then hard acceleration?

 

[ericwn]

A few exterior shots, my GT providing the photo bomb in the background on a couple Love they maintain the iconic grill/headlamps, while updating it, and adding way more sophisticated lighting.

It’s just a gorgeous colour! Really nice. I was surprised how modern and complete these newer Jeeps feel inside.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[DT]

It’s just a gorgeous colour! Really nice. I was surprised how modern and complete these newer Jeeps feel inside.

Thanks, and I just saw a post it's not available any longer (companies tend to have a few cycling colors outside the normal black/white/red/silver). A few weeks after that pic was the last time the roof was on it

 

[DT]

Finally got a new software update on the Tesla, some additional "fun" stuff (Disney +), some nice tweaks to controls, including a new "car wash" mode (turns off auto wipers, locks the charge port, so these things don't trigger), and as always, tweaks to core vehicle functions.

@quagmire Did you get this yet? I went from 2021.4.21 to 2021.32.21

 

[User.168]

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[DT]

@theSeb Did you see the video I posted about the Kia EV6? I know you checked out an Ioniq 5, wondering if the Kia flavor improves on the things you didn't like[?]

 

[quagmire]

Finally got a new software update on the Tesla, some additional "fun" stuff (Disney +), some nice tweaks to controls, including a new "car wash" mode (turns off auto wipers, locks the charge port, so these things don't trigger), and as always, tweaks to core vehicle functions.

@quagmire Did you get this yet? I went from 2021.4.21 to 2021.32.21

Not yet. Still stuck on 4.21.3

 

[DT]

Not yet. Still stuck on 4.21.3

Mine updated after I made some threatening remarks at my car ...

FWIW, I was on the same specific revision as you, 2021.4.21.3, this update they dropped the last place version identifier, so it's just 2021.32.21

Apparently the versioning methodology is year.week.build, so a 2021.32 is a branch started in Week 32 of 2021, i.e., 08-09-2021 - 08-15-2021 (and build being an incrementing sequence, usually denoting a fix vs. a feature).