The future of affirmative action

[Deleted member 215]

The Supreme Court is set to hear a case challenging affirmative action in college admissions:

Supreme Court Will Hear Challenge to Affirmative Action at Harvard and U.N.C. (Published 2022)

The court’s new conservative supermajority may be skeptical of admissions programs that take account of race to foster educational diversity.

www.nytimes.com

The suit alleges that Harvard admissions use subjective criteria like "likeability" and "courage" that effectively sets a ceiling for the number of Asian American students admitted. It claims that Asian American students are disadvantaged by affirmative action, stereotyped as book-smart and one-dimensional. Harvard argues that it does not discriminate against Asian American applicants and that its admissions policies that consider race as a factor are lawful per recent SCOTUS rulings.

Do you think the SCOTUS will do away with affirmative action once and for all? Is affirmative action in college admissions still necessary? What is the future of affirmative action in the U.S.?

 

[SuperMatt]

The Supreme Court is set to hear a case challenging affirmative action in college admissions:

Supreme Court Will Hear Challenge to Affirmative Action at Harvard and U.N.C. (Published 2022)

The court’s new conservative supermajority may be skeptical of admissions programs that take account of race to foster educational diversity.

www.nytimes.com

The suit alleges that Harvard admissions use subjective criteria like "likeability" and "courage" that effectively sets a ceiling for the number of Asian American students admitted. It claims that Asian American students are disadvantaged by affirmative action, stereotyped as book-smart and one-dimensional. Harvard argues that it does not discriminate against Asian American applicants and that its admissions policies that consider race as a factor are lawful per recent SCOTUS rulings.

Do you think the SCOTUS will do away with affirmative action once and for all? Is affirmative action in college admissions still necessary? What is the future of affirmative action in the U.S.?

Is affirmative action the issue? Or is it the slots saved for white kids? For some of the elite universities, they have “legacy” slots, and based on past policies only allowing white students at such universities, those slots are de facto reserved for white students. Why don’t they go after that type of favoritism first?

However, I wouldn’t be surprised if these elite universities are perverting the affirmative action rules that allow them to factor race into the admission process as an excuse to exclude Asian students. The problem here is that if the entire system is invalidated, it is black students who will likely be hurt the worst.

 

[Herdfan]

Simple question? Should 100%of university applicants be graded on a color-blind basis? Students apply through a 3rd party that assigns them a number to prevent discrimination on ethnic sounding names and makes their decisions based solely on merit.

Good or bad idea?

 

[ronntaylor]

As long as Affirmative Action/Diversity Efforts are seen as assisting Black students, it will be problematic. More legacy admissions (read white students) get admitted/placed ahead of ostensibly more "deserving" students. But the laser focus is on Black students. The last several cases were white kids targeting Black students "unfairly" admitted even though a great deal more white students were leapfrogged ahead of the complainers. Now it's Asian students targeting Black students that they deem unfairly getting placed before them. Again, the number of white students with legacy, rich parents, "student" athletes, etc. getting ahead dwarfs the number of Black students assisted with Affirmative Action/Diversity Initiatives.

An encouraging trend is that lots of Black students (maybe as part of the current racial reckoning?) are choosing historically Black colleges and universities without a thought about primarily white schools. I've always thought it was always a trap where Black students are not welcomed and are often in hostile territory no matter how they entered the Ivy League/top schools.

 

[GermanSuplex]

Simple question? Should 100%of university applicants be graded on a color-blind basis? Students apply through a 3rd party that assigns them a number to prevent discrimination on ethnic sounding names and makes their decisions based solely on merit.

Good or bad idea?

I would be ok with that, but we know people of means are still able to pervert the system. And then you have the issue of people of wealth who simply have access to more resources to better their chances - private schools, homeschooling, tutoring, extra classes, etc.

And to be clear, those students shouldn’t be punished either. What is the common ground between trying not to disenfranchise ANYONE, while also admitting the discrepancies that exist and trying to do the Christ-like thing and lend a helping hand to people and create a somewhat more level playing field, all while making sure those with means don’t abuse the system?

I don’t know. Your idea is a starting point though.

Of course, this also brings into play the concept of systemic racism and income inequality, which is another layer of debate that one has to wade through when discussing affirmative action in jobs and college admissions.

I fear the end goal here is a return to the status quo, which is not any better than some of the legit arguments to be made against affirmative action. However, if we can at least agree that things the way they were are not an alternative option to things as they are now, that would be a reasonable footing from which to move forward.

 

[ronntaylor]

Simple question? Should 100%of university applicants be graded on a color-blind basis? Students apply through a 3rd party that assigns them a number to prevent discrimination on ethnic sounding names and makes their decisions based solely on merit.

Good or bad idea?

Would that nix legacy admissions, an ode to white supremacy? Many (most?) top schools admit more legacy slots than Black, Latinx and Indigenous students combined.

 

[User.168]

.

 

[JayMysteri0]

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1486767083069353985/

Also to answer this choad's question & tie everything, all they have to do is answer one question.

Why was there ever a need to give Black students scholarships / AA?

Hint for the person asking, it has something to do with that "systemic racism" you threw in there.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1486767083069353985/

Also to answer this choad's question & tie everything, all they have to do is answer one question.

Why was there ever a need to give Black students scholarships / AA?

Hint for the person asking, it has something to do with that "systemic racism" you threw in there.

Being the majority is the new minority.

Not being elite is the new elite.

I think I cracked the code. Nonsense is the new sense.

 

[Herdfan]

Would that nix legacy admissions, an ode to white supremacy? Many (most?) top schools admit more legacy slots than Black, Latinx and Indigenous students combined.

Where would applicant number 456-721 include the information that their father and grandfather attended the same university and that their family has donated xyz to the new library building?

No it can be a factor as can many other metrics. Give it a weight, maybe a point on a 100-point scale. Simple check box of did your parents/grandparents attend? Not who they are and certainly not how much money they donated.

 

[User.168]

.

 

[Huntn]

Simple question? Should 100%of university applicants be graded on a color-blind basis? Students apply through a 3rd party that assigns them a number to prevent discrimination on ethnic sounding names and makes their decisions based solely on merit.

Good or bad idea?

This all boils down to do you support the premise of Affirmative Action or not?

 

[ronntaylor]

No it can be a factor as can many other metrics. Give it a weight, maybe a point on a 100-point scale. Simple check box of did your parents/grandparents attend? Not who they are and certainly not how much money they donated.

That would continue to perpetrate race-based admissions. So white applicants can use race, but Black, Latino and Indigenous students are shit out of luck. Got it!

 

[SuperMatt]

Would that nix legacy admissions, an ode to white supremacy? Many (most?) top schools admit more legacy slots than Black, Latinx and Indigenous students combined.

They should call it what it is: affirmative action for white students.

The colleges are discriminating against Asian students, because they are outperforming the white students in many cases, and the schools don’t want to become majority Asian. IMHO, they are abusing the rulings that allow them to consider race in the admissions process. I expect the court will rule against the schools, to the detriment of black and latino students.

 

[Herdfan]

This all boils down to do you support the premise of Affirmative Action or not?

All things being equal, yes. Quota's, no!

 

[ronntaylor]

All things being equal, yes. Quota's, no!

No one uses quotas. White Right-wing boogeyman for all their answers.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

This is a weird one. It seems like both sides are saying Asians aren't likable or courageous but aren't going to unpack that further. Let's just take that as a given and rule from there.

 

[ronntaylor]

This is a weird one. It seems like both sides are saying Asians aren't likable or courageous but aren't going to unpack that further. Let's just take that as a given and rule from there.

Asians do kinda get it from all sides. But in this case, and another that escapes me right now, they appear to be proxies for white critics for diversity programs that are deemed helpful to Black and Latino students. There are several Asian communities that would benefit from targeted diversity/affirmative action programs. These plaintiffs don't care about "those people" though. They would have a better case if they went after the white kids with lesser credentials/scores that are given preference. But that would be biting the hand that feeds into the "model minority" myth that benefits many of them.

 

[Herdfan]

No one uses quotas. White Right-wing boogeyman for all their answers.

I will give you a chance to walk this back.

 

[GermanSuplex]

I actually think teaching what republicans call CRT (aka accurate history) in schools would clear a lot of these issues up in a generation or two. You teach people the truth, you get them to see a wider world view, people get along better, minorities are happy because there's less racism, white people are happy because minorities are moving up the success ladder without any pesky "socialism", and then we get closer to that equal footing we all talk about.

But a lot of people in this country simply don't want that. They want to keep people stupid and divided, and that only further perpetuates the need for things like affirmative action. This is very similar to the BLM/"Don't all lives matter?" debate.