The George Floyd Trial

Huntn

Thread Starter
Site Champ
Site Donor
Posts
986
Reaction score
1,402
He's a pharmacist, so he wasn't really trained to make these assessments:) I didn't read the autopsy report, but my understanding is he had an underlying hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, which is common amongst black men. Now if somebody is kneeling on your neck, the heart has to work harder to push blood into the brain... it's a vicious cycle. Let's say that's true... He could have had a good chance of getting saved via CPR (it's invented for situations like this). Guess who prevented that from happening?! Seriously, I'm annoyed by this because they want to obfuscate the fact that Floyd died because of Chauvin who could not be stopped because Floyd's killing was "official police business".

It'll be interesting to see them explain to the jury why they weren't allowed to help him.
My impression this has happened on multiple occasions where a citizen typically black has been mortally wounded, and the police just let them bleed out. I think this happened with the black EMT killed in her apartment in a no knock raid, to the wrong address? The police were not held accountable for the death, but were scolded for stray bullets going into a next door neighbors apartment.
 

ericgtr12

Elite Member
Staff member
Posts
3,075
Reaction score
5,900
It's absolutely a mindfuck and definitely traumatizing. They either do the right thing and get labeled as the savage criminals justifying policy brutality, or watch this man die in the hands of cops.

I do worry Chauvin will get away with this... You only need one racist on the jury...
And we've seen it time after time, it's not just the cops who are racist, it's the system. At least they were able to add a few different options here and I have a feeling that deliberations won't be easy for one or two people on the fence, hearing about their reactions so far it sounds like it's really impacting them.
 

P_X

Elite Member
Site Donor
Posts
2,180
Reaction score
3,900
My impression this has happened on multiple occasions where a citizen typically black has been mortally wounded, and the police just let them bleed out. I think this happened with the black EMT killed in her apartment in a no knock raid, to the wrong address? The police were not held accountable for the death, but were scolded for stray bullets going into a next door neighbors apartment.
Oh for sure. Nothing's more striking than the visuals of a person in a pool of blood next to the cop who shot them waiting like they could do nothing.

And we've seen it time after time, it's not just the cops who are racist, it's the system. At least they were able to add a few different options here and I have a feeling that deliberations won't be easy for one or two people on the fence, hearing about their reactions so far it sounds like it's really impacting them.
This trial will make or break this country. If Chauvin's acquitted, we'll see a MAJOR influx of white supremacists into the force.
 

ericgtr12

Elite Member
Staff member
Posts
3,075
Reaction score
5,900
Oh for sure. Nothing's more striking than the visuals of a person in a pool of blood next to the cop who shot them waiting like they could do nothing.


This trial will make or break this country. If Chauvin's acquitted, we'll see a MAJOR influx of white supremacists into the force.
I think we would also see BLM protests like never before, and I would be out there with them.
 

P_X

Elite Member
Site Donor
Posts
2,180
Reaction score
3,900
AAAAAAARGH.

Physician testimony is so frustrating.... Defense tries to establish Floyd was complaining of shortness of breath due to Fentanyl.... The defense lawyer asked the doc whether hypercarbia (elevated CO2) could have made Floyd feel short of breath and the doc said "yes". Fuck no it *doesn't if the cause is opioid overdose! The way opioid overdose causes hypercarbia is that it suppresses respiratory drive and air hunger. We specifically use it to treat air hunger.

You can tell that the defense has a very weak case when putting such emphasis on the lack of Narcan use to "reverse" "opioid-induced" cardiopulmonary failure. As the physician suggested, it's "nice" to have a circulation that actually takes narcan to opioid receptors...
 
Last edited:

ericgtr12

Elite Member
Staff member
Posts
3,075
Reaction score
5,900
AAAAAAARGH.

Physician testimony is so frustrating.... Defense tries to establish Floyd was complaining of shortness of breath due to Fentanyl.... The defense lawyer asked the doc whether hypercarbia (elevated CO2) could have made Floyd feel short of breath and the doc said "yes". Fuck no it can't! The way opioid overdose causes hypercarbia is that it suppresses respiratory drive and air hunger. We specifically use it to treat air hunger.

You can tell that the defense has a very weak case when putting such emphasis on the lack of Narcan use to "reverse" "opioid-induced" cardiopulmonary failure. As the physician suggested, it's "nice" to have a circulation that actually takes narcan to opioid receptors...
I haven't been watching but I'm guessing the prosecution grilled him?
 

P_X

Elite Member
Site Donor
Posts
2,180
Reaction score
3,900
I haven't been watching but I'm guessing the prosecution grilled him?
Yes. It wasn't that bad, but medically speaking, the prosecution tried to make the argument that high CO2 is a sign of hypoventilation that can emerge secondary to fentanyl overdose. It's bullshit, if he's narc'd out of his mind he would have been less agitated. It also has a short half life...in my field we used to do it if we needed very quick sedation with the ability to do adequate mental status exams in the next hour or so.

If I were the defense I would have focused on methamphetamine that could cause arrhytmias and cardiac arrest. From my perspective they appeared poorly prepared focusing on medically irrelevant stuff (i.e. I've learnt nothing relevant from the second half of physician testimony). Yet considering the current notoriety of fentanyl, it's probably a better drug to focus on to manipulate the jury.
 

P_X

Elite Member
Site Donor
Posts
2,180
Reaction score
3,900
Yes, when they're handcuffed face down pleading for the life you can't be too careful. I get the defense has to focus on this stuff but it's hard to imagine a jury buying it.
The insinuation by defense was that
1) the police chief has been off the streets for many years
2) There is a "heightened sense of awareness" of danger when the most dangerous police activity of approaching an assailants car takes place
3) Floyd was "actively resisting" so the applied force was proportionate (as we learned today, the criteria of "active resistance" can be very broadly interpreted and applied to anybody unhappy with police intervention. If you go limp: you're actively resisting. If you stiffen up, you're actively resisting.
4) Floyd was short of breath because of fentanyl and you cannot prove that his death was not secondary to opioid overdose. Again, opioids don't cause shortness of breath they actually treat it by reducing the discomfort caused by unmatched respiratory supply to a person's respiratory need. This on its own is sufficient for me to rule out fentanyl overdose as a cause of death. (I've seen people commenting on this on r/Conservative who couldn't even even spell fentanyl).


The police chiefs non-verbal communication was absolutely telling about what he thinks about Chauvin's actions.
 

lizkat

Elite Member
Site Donor
Posts
2,791
Reaction score
6,270
Yes, when they're handcuffed face down pleading for the life you can't be too careful. I get the defense has to focus on this stuff but it's hard to imagine a jury buying it.


Like any citizen in good health would be just fine after a cop knelt on his or her neck for nine minutes and 29 seconds?

Chauvin should have taken a plea. But at least now we get to see how difficult it is to try to defend his inexcusable actions.
 

P_X

Elite Member
Site Donor
Posts
2,180
Reaction score
3,900
Like any citizen in good health would be just fine after a cop knelt on his or her neck for nine minutes and 29 seconds?

Chauvin should have taken a plea. But at least now we get to see how difficult it is to try to defend his inexcusable actions.
I give it slightly more than 50% that it's gonna be a hung jury. :/

It only takes a single "ghost skin".
 

lizkat

Elite Member
Site Donor
Posts
2,791
Reaction score
6,270
I give it slightly more than 50% that it's gonna be a hung jury. :/

It only takes a single "ghost skin".


I'm not good at assessing where my fellow countrymen stand on a lot of topics, I've realized. Cops killing people of color because "apparently they can" is one of those topics. And even if they can't, apparently there's now a sense at least from some cops' perspective, that the facts of old cases can be manipulated when it comes to current public review of those cases.

I lived in NYC when the unarmed immigrant Amadou Diallo died in a hail of 41 police bullets, 19 of which hit him, and which gunfire had continued after he had fallen to the ground per an eyewitness. There is a lot that is interesting about the acquittal of the four police officers who shot him to death. The trial was moved to Albany from NYC, the jurors were four Black and eight White. But even more interesting is an annotation in the Wikipedia piece about relatively recent edits made to that piece and to other Wiki pieces about high profile shootings by police. Some of the edits appear to have been made from computers at NYC Police Headquarters and have attempted to mess with public views of facts of these cases, some of which cases now of course are practically ancient history.

"A report from Capital New York[17] reported that 85 IP addresses belonging to the New York Police Department had made changes to Wikipedia pages about NYPD misconduct and also to people killed in police interventions, including this article.[18] One of these editions stated that "Officer Kenneth Boss had previously been involved in an incident in which an unarmed man was shot, but continued to work as a police officer" and was changed to "Officer Kenneth Boss was previously involved in an incident in which a man armed was shot.ā€[17] Two policemen associated with these editions were reported to receive only "minor reprimands".[19][20]"​

We may have a really long way to go in the USA when it comes to the reality of a colorblind Lady Justice, if cops are still playing with the American public --and the world-- on bad police shooting cases that went wrong in the jury box 45 years ago and the cops or their defenders are still trying to make it seem like what happened was OK.
 

Huntn

Thread Starter
Site Champ
Site Donor
Posts
986
Reaction score
1,402
Yes. It wasn't that bad, but medically speaking, the prosecution tried to make the argument that high CO2 is a sign of hypoventilation that can emerge secondary to fentanyl overdose. It's bullshit, if he's narc'd out of his mind he would have been less agitated. It also has a short half life...in my field we used to do it if we needed very quick sedation with the ability to do adequate mental status exams in the next hour or so.

If I were the defense I would have focused on methamphetamine that could cause arrhytmias and cardiac arrest. From my perspective they appeared poorly prepared focusing on medically irrelevant stuff (i.e. I've learnt nothing relevant from the second half of physician testimony). Yet considering the current notoriety of fentanyl, it's probably a better drug to focus on to manipulate the jury.
Yeah, but he died.
 

ericgtr12

Elite Member
Staff member
Posts
3,075
Reaction score
5,900
I give it slightly more than 50% that it's gonna be a hung jury. :/

It only takes a single "ghost skin".
If history is any judge I fear this is an accurate guess. Society as well as law enforcement simply puts less value on the life of a black person, even when they witness a slow and cruel death of this magnitude in high resolution video.
 
Top Bottom