The recall of Chesa Boudin and the failure of progressive criminal justice reform

[Deleted member 215]

Chesa Boudin is San Francisco’s recently-elected progressive district attorney who was voted out in a successful recall effort yesterday, thanks in large part to the efforts of the Asian American community in the city. SF is one of the most progressive cities in the U.S., yet even it recalled a progressive D.A. who was seen by many as not doing enough about a rise in crime in the wake of the pandemic (in particular, property crime and anti-Asian hate crimes). I often hear from the “defund” crowd that more policing is not a solution to an increase in crime, that we need to invest in other services instead (yet which services I'm unclear of, often the solutions are vague and the effort is on getting money out of the police department). Yet it seems pretty clear that the people, when confronted with a rise in crime and homelessness and an overall decrease in quality of life, turn toward strengthening the police force and the carceral system, no matter how progressive their sympathies may be otherwise.

A similar effort succeeded in L.A. in which a former Republican who promised to increase the number of police officers significantly as well as the number of sanitation workers to clean the streets of homeless encampments won the Democratic primary (Eric Adams’s recent victory in NYC could be seen as another parallel). Why are progressives losing to moderate “tough on crime” Democrats? Do progressive criminal justice reform policies lead to a temporary increase in crime that most people are not willing to put up with?

 

[SuperMatt]

Chesa Boudin is San Francisco’s recently-elected progressive district attorney who was voted out in a successful recall effort yesterday, thanks in large part to the efforts of the Asian American community in the city. SF is one of the most progressive cities in the U.S., yet even it recalled a progressive D.A. who was seen by many as not doing enough about a rise in crime in the wake of the pandemic (in particular, property crime and anti-Asian hate crimes). I often hear from the “defund” crowd that more policing is not a solution to an increase in crime, that we need to invest in other services instead (yet which services I'm unclear of, often the solutions are vague and the effort is on getting money out of the police department). Yet it seems pretty clear that the people, when confronted with a rise in crime and homelessness and an overall decrease in quality of life, turn toward strengthening the police force and the carceral system, no matter how progressive their sympathies may be otherwise.

A similar effort succeeded in L.A. in which a former Republican who promised to increase the number of police officers significantly as well as the number of sanitation workers to clean the streets of homeless encampments won the Democratic primary (Eric Adams’s recent victory in NYC could be seen as another parallel). Why are progressives losing to moderate “tough on crime” Democrats? Do progressive criminal justice reform policies lead to a temporary increase in crime that most people are not willing to put up with?

Fear. It explains the Trump win in 2016. He ginned up fear of immigrants and Muslims and rode that fear into the White House.

People (falsely) believe that ”tough on crime” strategies like the War on Drugs actually work. Such policies are good at one thing. Putting black men behind bars.

I saw on commenters for the Fox story about Uvalde blaming “defund” for the shooting there. Uvalde spends 40% of its budget on police; they are the opposite of defunding. But it’s a good example of the nonsensical belief that defund will lead to chaos.

After 9/11, people supported America’s invasion of Iraq, a country that had nothing to do with 9/11. Because they feared basically the entire Middle East.

If one stops and thinks critically, they can observe and analyze data from various American cities as well as other nations, and see what really works. Unfortunately, most voters are reactionary, and fear is the biggest thing we react to.

 

[Eric]

Chesa Boudin is San Francisco’s recently-elected progressive district attorney who was voted out in a successful recall effort yesterday, thanks in large part to the efforts of the Asian American community in the city. SF is one of the most progressive cities in the U.S., yet even it recalled a progressive D.A. who was seen by many as not doing enough about a rise in crime in the wake of the pandemic (in particular, property crime and anti-Asian hate crimes). I often hear from the “defund” crowd that more policing is not a solution to an increase in crime, that we need to invest in other services instead (yet which services I'm unclear of, often the solutions are vague and the effort is on getting money out of the police department). Yet it seems pretty clear that the people, when confronted with a rise in crime and homelessness and an overall decrease in quality of life, turn toward strengthening the police force and the carceral system, no matter how progressive their sympathies may be otherwise.

A similar effort succeeded in L.A. in which a former Republican who promised to increase the number of police officers significantly as well as the number of sanitation workers to clean the streets of homeless encampments won the Democratic primary (Eric Adams’s recent victory in NYC could be seen as another parallel). Why are progressives losing to moderate “tough on crime” Democrats? Do progressive criminal justice reform policies lead to a temporary increase in crime that most people are not willing to put up with?

I'm one who fully supported the recall, most support reform but anyone who lives or works in San Francisco is fed up with the amount of crime going on, seriously it's like comic book "save Gotham Batman" bad there. People are literally walking into stores, filling up their carts and walking out in front of God and everyone with a look like "holy shit, I can't believe how easy this is" on their faces.

Not only are they refusing to prosecute them, the police have all but stopped trying to even stop them as a result. So yes, the people in the city are understandably pissed, they don't feel safe shopping or walking the streets. We all understand the challenges in dealing with poverty and there's plenty of blame to go around but this is more than that.

Even the most progressive Democrats have had it, the city needs to act. I hope Mayor London Breed was paying attention because she's next on the chopping block if no changes are made.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

SF is too cost-prohibitive for most people and people don't just wake up one day and decide to be homeless or a criminal. I see close to nothing being done in CA about the insanely high cost of living and the progressives seem to be more interested in being more lenient on the poor and their sometimes related criminal activities than doing something to make them less poor.

 

[SuperMatt]

Here’s a good explanation of how perception and reality don’t match up in this situation.

https://wapo.st/3MwLcV0

(paywall removed)

Yet the case against Boudin’s record plays out a bit like Lim’s story: It’s compelling at first blush, but it ultimately collapses with some scrutiny. It’s true, for example, that San Francisco saw a considerable increase in car thefts and home burglaries last year. But violent crime in the city was down in 2020. Overall crime was down 25 percent from 2019. And all major categories of crime remained well below their five-year average. Murders did increase in 2020, but only by 14 percent (from 41 to 47) from a 56-year low in 2019. By comparison, murders nationwide were up about 25 percent in 2020. So far in 2021, murders in San Francisco are down 20 percent from last year.

Another criticism of Boudin is that his office failed to bring enough cases to trial last year. But the pandemic closed courtrooms across the country, including in San Francisco. Most jurisdictions in the United States saw only a fraction of the trials they typically hold each year. Boudin’s charging rates for both violent and property crimes are similar to that of his predecessor, according to Mission Local. And as Boudin points out, San Francisco police made arrests in only about 10 percent of burglaries last year. A DA can’t file charges if the police don’t make arrests.

But we are a democracy and in the end, people didn’t like what Boudin was selling. Hopefully his replacement can assuage the fears of the populace while implementing sustainable policies.

 

[Deleted member 215]

The high cost of living is I'm sure a major driver of a rise in property crime and homelessness, but what do you do about it other than build more housing? And that's difficult given zoning laws and housing caps. A number of communities around where I live are considering raising the housing cap and allowing for more multi-family housing and gee, it's being met with a huge NIMBY backlash.

You want to see crime and homelessness go down, but one thing that would help in the long term by lowering the cost of living (more housing), you oppose. That's life in America...

 

[Eric]

In the end he was out of touch with the people, failing to prosecute and grasping onto policies that allow criminals to commit crimes with little to no accountability. If you look at local discussion, in a mostly Liberal crowd, he has been universally hated all around. For example:



In fact if you look at any of the local subs or Twitter you see a lot of people fed up with all the crime there, someone has to take the heat and he topped the list for not only refusing to prosecute, but really just being out of touch with the people on these issues.

 

[ronntaylor]

Boudin is especially incompetent. But the pandemic and the economic downturn has resulted in crimes spikes all over the country. Including areas with conservative and moderate prosecutors. The DA that kicked off the wave of progressive offices, Larry Krasner in Philadelphia, won re-election. Kim Foxx, despite the Jussie Smollett mess, is looked on favorably as a much more progressive DA than her predecessor Alvarez. Adams here in NYC is getting called out for a less than stellar performance thus far. Not surprising as he was a former Police captain for a decade and a half before being elected Mayor. He wasn't a fount of knowledge on current policing strategy and efforts. Many cases highlighted as part of the "Defund the Police" movement aren't actually cases of defunding the police. It's more about budgetary sleight of hand shenanigans.

Many cases of actual Defund the Police have been successful and overlooked or hidden because of political agendas. Camdem, NJ is a good, if imperfect example. I believe this has been brought up here by others (my memory is a bit foggy, so it's possible it was brought up at the other place).

Continuing bad policing and indifferent prosecutor offices in either direction aren't an answer to rising crime.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

The high cost of living is I'm sure a major driver of a rise in property crime and homelessness, but what do you do about it other than build more housing? And that's difficult given zoning laws and housing caps. A number of communities around where I live are considering raising the housing cap and allowing for more multi-family housing and gee, it's being met with a huge NIMBY backlash.

You want to see crime and homelessness go down, but one thing that would help in the long term by lowering the cost of living (more housing), you oppose. That's life in America...

Much like responsible gun owners, individual high rent and mortgage payers don't see themselves as part of the problem. They can afford to pay it and that should come with certain perks like low crime, the illusion of not living in a packed city, and the homeless should be out of sight, out of mind. I can understand that mentality to an extent, but the fact is that the utopia they feel they paid for isn't going to exist as long as we do nothing to improve more people's economic situation.

 

[SuperMatt]

In the end he was out of touch with the people, failing to prosecute and grasping onto policies that allow criminals to commit crimes with little to no accountability. If you look at local discussion, in a mostly Liberal crowd, he has been universally hated all around. For example:



In fact if you look at any of the local subs or Twitter you see a lot of people fed up with all the crime there, someone has to take the heat and he topped the list for not only refusing to prosecute, but really just being out of touch with the people on these issues.

It’s great to see the local perspective. Thanks for sharing it.

I don’t like the national news outlets shouting “progressivism is dead!” When what you’ve got is a unique situation in a specific city with an incompetent and unpopular DA.

 

[Eric]

Continuing bad policing and indifferent prosecutor offices in either direction aren't an answer to rising crime.

At this point I think we would be happy with any policing. They're doing nothing at this point, openly refusing to do their jobs because those they arrest will be out doing it again the next day. Both the prosecutors and the police need reform here if we want to see any substantive change.

 

[SuperMatt]

The high cost of living is I'm sure a major driver of a rise in property crime and homelessness, but what do you do about it other than build more housing? And that's difficult given zoning laws and housing caps. A number of communities around where I live are considering raising the housing cap and allowing for more multi-family housing and gee, it's being met with a huge NIMBY backlash.

You want to see crime and homelessness go down, but one thing that would help in the long term by lowering the cost of living (more housing), you oppose. That's life in America...

Sadly, NIMBY is a real thing. It’s probably the biggest barrier to building higher-density housing in areas that desperately need it. And when it comes to the Silicon Valley tech bros, they are literally the apex of “F U all I got mine!”

 

[Eric]

It’s great to see the local perspective. Thanks for sharing it.

I don’t like the national news outlets shouting “progressivism is dead!” When what you’ve got is a unique situation in a specific city with an incompetent and unpopular DA.

Man you aren't kidding, Twitter is full of Republicans pouncing on this and I've just been ignoring them. They can try to score political points but what they don't get is this same crowd would never vote for a Conservative at the same time, Progressives need to find some middle ground here and listen to their people.

 

[Citysnaps]

The pandemic and its dynamics along with the housing crisis, exacerbated with recent cheap and plentiful Fentanyl made it tough for his success.

 

[SuperMatt]

plentiful Fentanyl

Sounds like a great name for a punk band

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

Man you aren't kidding, Twitter is full of Republicans pouncing on this and I've just been ignoring them. They can try to score political points but what they don't get is this same crowd would never vote for a Conservative at the same time, Progressives need to find some middle ground here and listen to their people.

This kind of reminds me of when the SF school board was focusing on renaming schools named after problematic historical figures instead of getting kids back in school, which both pissed off locals and gave the right another talking point about cancel culture and democrats being out of touch with important issues.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

Sounds like a great name for a punk band

Or an artisanal sleep aid.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

I’ll just put this here.

Left-Wing Group Too Disorganized For FBI Agents To Infiltrate

NEW YORK—Admitting that they had been working for several years without any discernible success, FBI agents confirmed Wednesday that a local left-wing political group was too disorganized to infiltrate. “We’ve had a few guys in there posing as members and trying to manipulate them into...

www.theonion.com

 

[Deleted member 215]

Citations Needed had a very interesting (and different) take on all of this.

They pointed out that Jacksonville, FL has a population roughly the same size as SF and has a much higher murder rate, yet you don't get national stories about their "crazy DA" because the DA there is a conservative Republican. SF is supposedly an example of "socialism gone wrong" yet SF is one of the most unequal cities in the U.S. (California is one of the most unequal states) and is not socialist in the least. It's anti-left propaganda that ends up in the NYT and other non-right-wing sources. That doesn't mean there isn't a property crime problem in SF, but it's just interesting how this stuff gets framed in the media vs. crime in other cities. Like how Kansas City has a higher murder rate than Chicago, but "Kansas City" isn't code for "black on black" the way "Chicago" is. People definitely vote based on perceptions and what's in the media. Perceptions and what's in the media aren't necessarily reflective of reality though.

 

[SuperMatt]

Citations Needed had a very interesting (and different) take on all of this.

They pointed out that Jacksonville, FL has a population roughly the same size as SF and has a much higher murder rate, yet you don't get national stories about their "crazy DA" because the DA there is a conservative Republican. SF is supposedly an example of "socialism gone wrong" yet SF is one of the most unequal cities in the U.S. (California is one of the most unequal states) and is not socialist in the least. It's anti-left propaganda that ends up in the NYT and other non-right-wing sources. That doesn't mean there isn't a property crime problem in SF, but it's just interesting how this stuff gets framed in the media vs. crime in other cities. Like how Kansas City has a higher murder rate than Chicago, but "Kansas City" isn't code for "black on black" the way "Chicago" is. People definitely vote based on perceptions and what's in the media. Perceptions and what's in the media aren't necessarily reflective of reality though.

Yep, Fox News always blabs about all the murders in Chicago and blames them on the evil liberals. Meanwhile, the top 3 cities for murders are in GOP-run states where a 5-year-old can buy an uzi for $1.99 (or will be able to soon at the rate they‘re loosening gun laws there): Jackson, Mississippi; Gary, Indiana; and St. Louis, Missouri.

Most of the right-wingers shouting about how the liberals are done for because of San Francisco probably couldn’t even find San Fran on a map.