Today’s Shooting (an ongoing topic)

[Huntn]

As reported on NPR, over 300 mass shootings this year, more than one a day. The Forth is no different. America, when are you going to get your collective head out of your asses?

See the video at this link:

Highland Park parade shooting suspect charged with 7 counts of murder, state's attorney says | CNN

The suspect in Monday's mass shooting at a July 4th parade in Highland Park, Illinois, that left seven dead and injured more than two dozen has been charged with seven counts of first-degree murder, Lake County State's Attorney Eric Rinehart announced during a news conference Tuesday evening.

www.cnn.com

I’m reaching a point, where I’m starting to think that the perpetrator of such a crime should be pilloried, and each member of a family harmed by him should be able to torture him. Actually I’m not, but when someone does something like this, I have an urge to see the individual suffer some level of terror that they perpetrated on others just because the perpetrator is a sick shit who had easy access to a gun, by the sound of it converted to an automatic.

 

[Citysnaps]

As reported on NPR, over 300 mass shootings this year, more than one a day. The Forth is no different. America, when are you going to get your collective head out of your asses?

See the video at this link:

Highland Park parade shooting suspect charged with 7 counts of murder, state's attorney says | CNN

The suspect in Monday's mass shooting at a July 4th parade in Highland Park, Illinois, that left seven dead and injured more than two dozen has been charged with seven counts of first-degree murder, Lake County State's Attorney Eric Rinehart announced during a news conference Tuesday evening.

www.cnn.com

I’m reaching a point, where I’m starting to think that the perpetrator of such a crime should be pilloried, and each member of a family harmed by him should be able to torture him. Actually I’m not, but when someone does something like this, I have an urge to see the individual suffer some level of terror that they perpetrated on others just because the perpetrator is a sick shit.

Sadly, I don't think that will stop the mass shootings.

 

[GermanSuplex]

Complex problems usually don't have simple solutions. But simple problems usually have simple solutions.

Conservatives find simple solutions to complex problems, and find complex solutions for simple problems.

Too many guns? Too much gun violence when the answer is clearly more guns + easier access = more gun violence? Lock down schools, arm more teachers, drop all requirements and responsibility that come with gun ownership. Let's remove doors and add metal detectors and a police force and national guard members at schools.

National debt too high? Well, we can't possibly make the wealthy pay a tax rate on par with your average working joe. Let's reduce all regulation and give the rich MORE money.

If you were to ask most conservatives three basic questions, they'd probably answer in the affirmative:

-Should there be background checks for weapons purchases?
-Should a woman have the right to choose, irrespective of your belief on abortion?
-Should a billionaire pay the same tax rate as a firefighter, cop, plumber, janitor, etc.?

Yet they will vote for people who stand for none of that.

We all play a part in this, and I'm not saying these shootings are solely caused by conservatives. But clearly, they keep building this alternate reality they are living in, and they do nothing as their policies fail. I hate to post that meme of a dog in hell saying "this is fine"... but its so accurate.

 

[Huntn]

Sadly, I don't think that will stop the mass shootings.

This was my emotional response, not my solution.

 

[Huntn]

Complex problems usually don't have simple solutions. But simple problems usually have simple solutions.

Conservatives find simple solutions to complex problems, and find complex solutions for simple problems.

Too many guns? Too much gun violence when the answer is clearly more guns + easier access = more gun violence? Lock down schools, arm more teachers, drop all requirements and responsibility that come with gun ownership. Let's remove doors and add metal detectors and a police force and national guard members at schools.

National debt too high? Well, we can't possibly make the wealthy pay a tax rate on par with your average working joe. Let's reduce all regulation and give the rich MORE money.

If you were to ask most conservatives three basic questions, they'd probably answer in the affirmative:

-Should there be background checks for weapons purchases?
-Should a woman have the right to choose, irrespective of your belief on abortion?
-Should a billionaire pay the same tax rate as a firefighter, cop, plumber, janitor, etc.?

Yet they will vote for people who stand for none of that.

We all play a part in this, and I'm not saying these shootings are solely caused by conservatives. But clearly, they keep building this alternate reality they are living in, and they do nothing as their policies fail. I hate to post that meme of a dog in hell saying "this is fine"... but its so accurate.

I agree with you that conservatives by todays definition, look at every issue in their lifes in an overly simplistic manner. The huge issue is how conservatives and their elected politicians have decided that oppression of anyone not adhering to their hypocritical straight jacketed lifestyle along with cheating, and coupled with a fantasy view of events to justify their self serving positions is a valid methodology to kill American Democracy. They can do this and claim they are saving America. Nope…

The problem is the Conservatism in a nutshell has been reduced to out of date simplistic values:

• Marriage is between a man and a woman.
• White Privilege- some form of whites are always better so they deserve it, or look at what whites had that they are now robbed of. Some of this has to do with racism and some with implosion of the US middle class based on the actions of the corprotacracy. These people in many cases used to be part of a healthy middle class long since diminished.
• Gun Worship- crime is up, guns are the problem, the police won’t protect me, my guns are the answer.
• Christianity- A potential human has priority over a functional human being.
• etc, fill in the blank.

Most of this comes right out of the 1950s, except gun worship developed in the 60s as urban gun related crime and distrust of “big brother” was and is on the rise.

 

[Runs For Fun]

And another one

2 police officers injured during July 4th shooting on Ben Franklin Parkway; $20K reward offered

A $20,000 reward is being offered for information that leads to the arrest of the armed suspect who wounded two police officers.

6abc.com

 

[GermanSuplex]

I agree with you that conservatives by todays definition, look at every issue in their lifes in an overly simplistic manner. The huge issue is how conservatives and their elected politicians have decided that oppression of anyone not adhering to their hypocritical straight jacketed lifestyle along with cheating, and coupled with a fantasy view of events to justify their self serving positions is a valid methodology to kill American Democracy. They can do this and claim they are saving America. Nope…

The problem is the Conservatism in a nutshell has been reduced to out of date simplistic values:

• Marriage is between a man and a woman.
• White Privilege- some form of whites are always better so they deserve it, or look at what whites had that they are now robbed of. Some of this has to do with racism and some with implosion of the US middle class based on the actions of the corprotacracy. These people in many cases used to be part of a healthy middle class long since diminished.
• Gun Worship- crime is up, guns are the problem, the police won’t protect me, my guns are the answer.
• Christianity- A potential human has priority over a functional human being.
• etc, fill in the blank.

Most of this comes right out of the 1950s, except gun worship developed in the 60s as urban gun related crime and distrust of “big brother” was and is on the rise.

Right. And the white privilege thing is so pervasive on the right. Even for people who aren't necessarily racist, I imagine loners can easily find "community" - be it in person or online - by regurgitating far-right rhetoric. I mean, you look at the Highland shooter, I haven't (yet) seen anything where race fits into this, but still... he fits the bill on other issues; Stereotypical violent ideology, hated politicians - yet seemed to be a Trump supporter.

Not saying there aren't crazies on the left, but I don't see a pattern of folks who attend Obama rallies and listen to Rachel Maddow committing mass murder.

There's absolutely random crazies out there who are just murderous nuts with no ideology, but as of late, a lot of these killers are young white men who listen to a lot of Trump and Tucker Carlson/Fox News.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

There’s no deterrent for these shooters. Suicide or killed at the scene, imprisonment, or executed by the state doesn’t matter to them. The shock and notoriety is the goal. Their only regret is probably a lower than they hoped for body count. These situations will just continue as long as those with the money and power aren’t included in the list of victims. And even then it will probably take at least a dozen of those. I think you’re just wasting a lot of mental calories believing otherwise. There isn’t a supposed safe or sacred place left. They’ve all been shot up and nothing meaningful has changed.

 

[Herdfan]

There’s no deterrent for these shooters. Suicide or killed at the scene, imprisonment, or executed by the state doesn’t matter to them. The shock and notoriety is the goal.

One thing that seems to be a common theme to these shootings (aside from the gun) - the person was known to law enforcement.

What aren't we doing correctly in these cases? Is it money? Then why wasn't money added to the bill than just passed.

Not knocking anyone here, but just need to know why all these people are known about, yet nothing is done.

 

[SuperMatt]

One thing that seems to be a common theme to these shootings (aside from the gun) - the person was known to law enforcement.

What aren't we doing correctly in these cases? Is it money? Then why wasn't money added to the bill than just passed.

Not knocking anyone here, but just need to know why all these people are known about, yet nothing is done.

Scroll through the guns thread a bit. Think about who gets treated to Burger King after committing mass murder and who ends up in a body bag for a busted taillight. You might be able to figure this one out yourself.

 

[SuperMatt]

One thing that seems to be a common theme to these shootings (aside from the gun) - the person was known to law enforcement.

What aren't we doing correctly in these cases? Is it money? Then why wasn't money added to the bill than just passed.

Not knocking anyone here, but just need to know why all these people are known about, yet nothing is done.

To get a bit more cerebral about it, this Fordham law professor, an expert on criminal law, explains it very well in this Twitter thread.

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1544441942997716993/

TLDR: You cannot predict who might commit such a heinous act.

My take: No semi-automatics? No way this many people can be killed by one man.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

BREAKING NEWS: The following have now been designated high risk group activities: Shopping, praying, learning, dancing, concerts, and holidays. Proceed with extreme caution.

The authoritarian right has created their brown shirts with militia larpers and the unhinged with easy access to guns to cause chaos in the streets. All who oppose this shall be designated anti-America radicals. Who can save us? Not the Democrats! They are weak. Only the Republicans have the will and muscle to safely restore our streets!

 

[Huntn]

This shooting as with some previous mass shootings illustrate that semi-automatic, especially altered fully automatic, bump stock, large magazine capacity weapons should be illegal, should be military issue only. Hunting people is a terrible reason, the only reason for their existence, yet, the gun lobby, gun worshippers loves them. I’m holding real power in my hands, I could hold my own in the next civil war, or go out and murder scores of human beings without much effort at all!

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

One thing that seems to be a common theme to these shootings (aside from the gun) - the person was known to law enforcement.

What aren't we doing correctly in these cases? Is it money? Then why wasn't money added to the bill than just passed.

Not knocking anyone here, but just need to know why all these people are known about, yet nothing is done.

My question is how many of these potential threats are the police aware of. A good cover story or deflection for law enforcement is "You are unaware of how many of these situations we actually prevented". You can't prove a negative, but it sure seems like our mental health monitoring consists largely of "You cool?" "Yeah, I'm cool." "Right then, off you go."

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

This shooting as with some previous mass shootings illustrate that semi-automatic, especially altered fully automatic, bump stock, large magazine capacity weapons should be illegal, should be military issue only. Hunting people is a terrible reason, the only reason for their existence, yet, the gun lobby, gun worshippers loves them. I’m holding real power in my hands, I could hold my own in the next civil war, or go out and murder scores of human beings without much effort at all!

Hey, we just past historic gun control legislation! We couldn’t possibly consider more for at least 3 decades. Why you buzz killing the recent historic gun control legislation? I sure hope the ongoing mass shootings don’t deflate the great accomplishment that was the recent historic gun control legislation.

 

[sgtaylor5]

https://www.cnn.com/2022/07/05/us/victims-highland-park-illinois-shooting-fourth-of-july/index.html

A bit too far

 

[SuperMatt]

My question is how many of these potential threats are the police aware of. A good cover story or deflection for law enforcement is "You are unaware of how many of these situations we actually prevented". You can't prove a negative, but it sure seems like our mental health monitoring consists largely of "You cool?" "Yeah, I'm cool." "Right then, off you go."

Again, think about a trait these shooters have that unarmed drivers with broken taillights who get gunned down by cops don’t share.

 

[GermanSuplex]

Again, think about a trait these shooters have that unarmed drivers with broken taillights who get gunned down by cops don’t share.

They left the handcuffs on this kid's dead body all the way to the coroner. Let us also not forget that in Ohio, you can conceal carry and have no obligations to alert you are armed to the cops.

Given what happened in Minnesota with Philando Castile, who told the cops he was legally armed and did NOT reach for his weapon but was shot dead.... the notion of "just comply and you'll be fine" is bullshit. Also, while I would never suggesting fleeing from cops in cars or on foot, people do it ALL THE TIME. Cops has been on the air for how long? Every damn episode has a foot chase. People hid under flipped-over kiddie pools, in bushes, etc. and you can't always see what they're up to, and the cops manage to haul their ass in unharmed.

There is a clear pattern in who gets taken in alive and who gets shot dead, and it has nothing to do with the crime committed.

Jayland Walker was handcuffed when his body arrived at the medical examiner's office, according to the autopsy report | CNN

Jayland Walker was handcuffed behind his back when his body arrived at the coroner's office to be processed as part of the investigation into the officers who shot and killed him in Akron last week, according to a medical examiner's report that was reviewed by CNN.

www.cnn.com

 

[AG_PhamD]

As reported on NPR, over 300 mass shootings this year, more than one a day. The Forth is no different. America, when are you going to get your collective head out of your asses?

See the video at this link:

Highland Park parade shooting suspect charged with 7 counts of murder, state's attorney says | CNN

The suspect in Monday's mass shooting at a July 4th parade in Highland Park, Illinois, that left seven dead and injured more than two dozen has been charged with seven counts of first-degree murder, Lake County State's Attorney Eric Rinehart announced during a news conference Tuesday evening.

www.cnn.com

I’m reaching a point, where I’m starting to think that the perpetrator of such a crime should be pilloried, and each member of a family harmed by him should be able to torture him. Actually I’m not, but when someone does something like this, I have an urge to see the individual suffer some level of terror that they perpetrated on others just because the perpetrator is a sick shit who had easy access to a gun, by the sound of it converted to an automatic.

I would think a lot (most?) of those 300 mass shootings are actually gang violence, which I think is a related problem but with different causes and solutions compared to the much more senseless mass shootings like Uvalde and Buffalo. That’s not to say it’s not a serious problem though. Especially considering innocent people often get caught in the cross fire. The fact remains were the only wealthy country with a gun problem to this extent and it’s only getting worse.

In the case of non-gang affiliated perpetrators targeting innocent civilians, making a public example out of them (ie pillorying them) might only embolden them. A lot of these psychopaths are seeking notoriety to begin with. And most of them feel like they have nothing to live for anyways and wrongly slighted by life/society anyways, so torturing them so to speak night only justify their sentiment.

I would actually suggest not giving mass shooters the attention they crave, ie not publicizing their name, pictures, etc- in cases where they kill themselves, are killed, or are caught prior to a manhunt. The practicality of doing so is probably very difficult since people want to have answers and there are obviously some legal/ethical questions around doing that. I suppose that could also lead to unintended consequences too ie being more likely to create the circumstances for a manhunt so that their name and picture had to be released. But it’s an interesting tactic to think about.

 

[Yoused]

Crimo drove to Madison, 2+ hours away, and mulled over doing more shooting with the gun/60 rounds he had left, but decided against it.