Trump voters always were and are about scared white people

Chew Toy McCoy

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Huffpo posted an article stating there were plenty of those at the rally and who stormed the capitol who aren’t exactly struggling financially, despite the economy frequently being stated as their reason for supporting Trump. Trump gets overwhelming support from white people who are afraid of no longer being top of the food chain in the US. This ranges from white supremacists to people who view equal rights for women and minorities not as equal but as giving them special elevated treatment making them even more protected and looked after than whites. This belief is also made worse by a media that largely paints minorities as criminals or invaders. So for them it’s not even that all people start on a level playing field, but that minorities start below that line based on perceived criminality and then are suddenly elevated to top position.

Regardless, eventually, sooner than later, whites will be the minority in the US. Better start warming up to it. Maybe in 100 years you’ll become the persecuted minority that needs special protections.
 

Chew Toy McCoy

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I believe that the prediction based on current numbers / population growth / migration is 2045.

Here's the cognitive dissonance we're dealing with here.

Do you believe in white privilege? No
Do you think there are too many foreigners in the US? Yes
Do you think too many foreigners are taking what rightly belongs to you? But Antifa.
 

Chew Toy McCoy

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I've never quite understood the argument considering that the country was built upon the backs of immigrants, refugees and slaves. But it is, as you noted, amusing to see the mental gymnastics employed.

I think the "upon the backs of immigrants" bit is a big part of it. To some they should just be allowed to contribute to the benefit of white people with little to no rewards to themselves in that effort.
 

JayMysteri0

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Huffpo posted an article stating there were plenty of those at the rally and who stormed the capitol who aren’t exactly struggling financially, despite the economy frequently being stated as their reason for supporting Trump. Trump gets overwhelming support from white people who are afraid of no longer being top of the food chain in the US. This ranges from white supremacists to people who view equal rights for women and minorities not as equal but as giving them special elevated treatment making them even more protected and looked after than whites. This belief is also made worse by a media that largely paints minorities as criminals or invaders. So for them it’s not even that all people start on a level playing field, but that minorities start below that line based on perceived criminality and then are suddenly elevated to top position.

Regardless, eventually, sooner than later, whites will be the minority in the US. Better start warming up to it. Maybe in 100 years you’ll become the persecuted minority that needs special protections.
You know how back in the day we didn't have Lite anything? And now I'm sure someone is working on Lite H2O.

I think of some of the 45ers there are just the Lite version of...

They know it's socially unacceptable to outwardly talk like a klan member. They will even associate with PoC if they have to because of work. The problem of course begins if those PoC at work or other fields start doing to well, and they begin to believe stories that that success came at their expense. Check any discussion about Affirmative Action in PRSI. Someone always KNOWS someone who didn't get into their college because of some PoC ( except Asian ) with poorer ( how they know that, they never reveal. I assume privacy issues ) scores or skills was let in instead.

It isn't overt racism. It's subtle, it's the Lite version. It's the modern variation of the tactic of pitting the less fortunate against one another, to keep them from looking at who's truly taking advantage of them.
 

DT

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You know how back in the day we didn't have Lite anything? And now I'm sure someone is working on Lite H2O.

I think of some of the 45ers there are just the Lite version of...

They know it's socially unacceptable to outwardly talk like a klan member. They will even associate with PoC if they have to because of work. The problem of course begins if those PoC at work or other fields start doing to well, and they begin to believe stories that that success came at their expense. Check any discussion about Affirmative Action in PRSI. Someone always KNOWS someone who didn't get into their college because of some PoC ( except Asian ) with poorer ( how they know that, they never reveal. I assume privacy issues ) scores or skills was let in instead.

It isn't overt racism. It's subtle, it's the Lite version. It's the modern variation of the tactic of pitting the less fortunate against one another, to keep them from looking at who's truly taking advantage of them.

That's a terrific article, the historical info, plus the breakdown/analysis of the Klan/racism/trumpism.


Linda Gordon

One other thing that’s very much in common between the ’20s Klan and what’s going on today is conspiracy theories. Take one example: Members of the second Klan spread the theory that the reason so many Catholics were coming into the United States was not because they were poor and looking for a better life, but because the pope ordered them to come. And once they came, they were supposed to go underground, awaiting the time when the pope would give the order for a coup that would take over the American government and establish the United Catholic States of America.

That’s based on religion, but I’m sure you can see the similarities to these white nationalists who seem to have this capacity to believe completely bizarre theories without any evidence, like Hillary Clinton is operating a massive child sex abuse ring.
 

DT

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Anna North

Why were people in the era of the second Klan so willing to believe these kinds of conspiracy theories? And what does that tell us about the rise of this kind of theory now?

Linda Gordon

I can only give you some simple, partial answers. One is, it depends on who you hear the theories from. In the case of the second Klan, a very large role was played by ministers. The Klan claimed to have 40,000 ministers. And they were not just members, they were people who, through their sermons, urged people to join the Ku Klux Klan to protect white Protestant domination of the United States. And in general, I do think that people tend to believe things depending on who they hear them from.

There was also a tendency to be hostile to science. Science seemed to them to be part of this conspiracy to take America away from the people who really belong to it. And I think that lies behind the fact that today’s far right is often also people who don’t want to wear masks. They just do not want to believe the science. And that was true in the ’20s. In the ’20s, the big issue was evolution. The Klan went all out in its battle against evolutionary theory and teaching evolution in schools.
 

Joe

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Yeah, it's not just poor rednecks. I've seen doctors, lawyers, and CEOs losing their jobs for rioting at the Capitol. I used to poke fun at Trump supporters calling them rednecks, but the riot proved its not just rednecks. You would think that a lawyer or doctor would have more common sense than to fall for this Qanon conspiracy theories. But they fell for them, and rioted, and ultimately lost their job, etc.
 

Scepticalscribe

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You know how back in the day we didn't have Lite anything? And now I'm sure someone is working on Lite H2O.

I think of some of the 45ers there are just the Lite version of...

They know it's socially unacceptable to outwardly talk like a klan member. They will even associate with PoC if they have to because of work. The problem of course begins if those PoC at work or other fields start doing to well, and they begin to believe stories that that success came at their expense. Check any discussion about Affirmative Action in PRSI. Someone always KNOWS someone who didn't get into their college because of some PoC ( except Asian ) with poorer ( how they know that, they never reveal. I assume privacy issues ) scores or skills was let in instead.

It isn't overt racism. It's subtle, it's the Lite version. It's the modern variation of the tactic of pitting the less fortunate against one another, to keep them from looking at who's truly taking advantage of them.
Excellent, informative, thought-provoking and well written piece.

Thanks for sharing.
 

lizkat

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Yeah, it's not just poor rednecks. I've seen doctors, lawyers, and CEOs losing their jobs for rioting at the Capitol. I used to poke fun at Trump supporters calling them rednecks, but the riot proved its not just rednecks. You would think that a lawyer or doctor would have more common sense than to fall for this Qanon conspiracy theories. But they fell for them, and rioted, and ultimately lost their job, etc.

No matter how I try to understand this, so far I just can't get there. I see it's obviously true from videos and even selfies and interviews about the insurrection at the Capitol. But my brain just balks at trying to envision the edges of how someone with a reasonably good education and livelihood even begins to take up a conspiracy theory and ends up having invested so much of themselves in it as to sacrifice all that for a web of lies and.... what, a sense of "knowing more" than the rest of us, or something? Comes back to needing to feel special?
 

Chew Toy McCoy

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No matter how I try to understand this, so far I just can't get there. I see it's obviously true from videos and even selfies and interviews about the insurrection at the Capitol. But my brain just balks at trying to envision the edges of how someone with a reasonably good education and livelihood even begins to take up a conspiracy theory and ends up having invested so much of themselves in it as to sacrifice all that for a web of lies and.... what, a sense of "knowing more" than the rest of us, or something? Comes back to needing to feel special?

Look how successful Trump got and he’s a complete idiot by just about every measurement.
 

Scepticalscribe

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Look how successful Trump got and he’s a complete idiot by just about every measurement.

Actually, he's not, and neither is Boris Johnson, a man whom some still insist on describing as "a buffoon".

They are, each of them, both of them, the pair of them, a very nasty piece of work.

Yes, of course, Donald Trump couldn't run a business without serial bankruptcy, and is incompetent at governance, but that makes him a poor manager, (of bureaucracy and business, both,) but not an idiot.

I read an interview with James Comey (published this week, in the Guardian) where he remarked that Trump "conveys a menace, a meanness in private" that is not always evident in public.

I think Trump is an extraordinarily sinister, malevolent narcissist, a pathological liar, corrupt to the core, a bully and a boor, with a sadist's appetite for hurt and humiliation, a horrible human being, who has never really been held to account by anyone.
 
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lizkat

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Look how successful Trump got and he’s a complete idiot by just about every measurement.

I don't think Trump believes in anything at all. He has adopted certain red lines when it comes to trade, immigration, etc. I don't understand how he traded on his sorry brand for so long when he's left a trail of variously shady, bankrupt or predatory companies behind him, except for his having understood that almost everything has a price and a raft of lawyers can usually find out what it is if they're paid well enough.

But I'm talking about people who managed to become middle class entrepreneurs or managers or small town lawyers etc and now have landed in this maelstrom of conspiracy theories.. even some who didn't sign up for the Capitol incursion when Trump incited it are now trying to spin up how the inauguration of Biden wasn't even real or that he doesn't head up a real government.

How is this not just play acting?

To me it's like watching kids who take some blocks or toys and manage to spin the hour before supper into adventure stories that are more fun than hanging out on the porch and just being captives of hunger.

Only at least the kids have some purpose I can understand. These adults who are into QAnon seem detached from both regular political activism and the apathy that a lot of their peers have about politics. It's like they're in it because belonging to a movement focused on QAnon theories or believing in them seems singular, special, somehow elevating of their spirits. Like a religion without a deity, now that Trump's feet are starting to look like they're made of clay. Not sure their belief system has the underpinnings of most major religions, i.e. the things that cause the faithful to roll up sleeves and look after each other at least on occasion. The Trump fanatics of the QAnon variety that we see now --paraded on social media yet again but now it's as they get arrested-- seem as narcissistic in their own way as their erstwhile leader Mr. Trump. Held together by excitement of having a special cause, but when the party's over they're individually whiny and talking about being victimized, exactly like Trump himself has done.
 

Chew Toy McCoy

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I don't think Trump believes in anything at all. He has adopted certain red lines when it comes to trade, immigration, etc. I don't understand how he traded on his sorry brand for so long when he's left a trail of variously shady, bankrupt or predatory companies behind him, except for his having understood that almost everything has a price and a raft of lawyers can usually find out what it is if they're paid well enough.

But I'm talking about people who managed to become middle class entrepreneurs or managers or small town lawyers etc and now have landed in this maelstrom of conspiracy theories.. even some who didn't sign up for the Capitol incursion when Trump incited it are now trying to spin up how the inauguration of Biden wasn't even real or that he doesn't head up a real government.

How is this not just play acting?

To me it's like watching kids who take some blocks or toys and manage to spin the hour before supper into adventure stories that are more fun than hanging out on the porch and just being captives of hunger.

Only at least the kids have some purpose I can understand. These adults who are into QAnon seem detached from both regular political activism and the apathy that a lot of their peers have about politics. It's like they're in it because belonging to a movement focused on QAnon theories or believing in them seems singular, special, somehow elevating of their spirits. Like a religion without a deity, now that Trump's feet are starting to look like they're made of clay. Not sure their belief system has the underpinnings of most major religions, i.e. the things that cause the faithful to roll up sleeves and look after each other at least on occasion. The Trump fanatics of the QAnon variety that we see now --paraded on social media yet again but now it's as they get arrested-- seem as narcissistic in their own way as their erstwhile leader Mr. Trump. Held together by excitement of having a special cause, but when the party's over they're individually whiny and talking about being victimized, exactly like Trump himself has done.

The reason I said that is because you are saying you can’t wrap your head around outwardly successful appearing people joining in the civil war LARPing. How do you know they aren’t just as deranged as Trump? Clearly they are.

I’m actually kind of pessimistic on what it takes to get high up or near the top of what American success typically gets defined as. It’s a lot of screwing people over either directly or simply not giving a shit about anyone outside your path to success.
 

lizkat

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I guess I feel pretty blessed then. I did live and work a long time in NYC, but on balance as far as exposure to narcissists and people off the wall in other alarming ways who held very good jobs at the same time... I'd say I've only known about a dozen or so at most. Some were real pieces of work though. And some were more on the comical side, or so I saw it after putting about ten years between my experience and the recollection...

Anyway none of them expressed political opinions anything like the crap I routinely read now has been reported on Fox News of an evening. I've only met a few people who are signed up to actual conspiracy theories, and they are the old ones like the USA's moon landings having been a hoax filmed in the deserts of Arizona.

But what bothers me is that so many of the conspiracy fans seem pretty young. So we in the older generations have either done something strange in our parenting, or else this is what happens when we decide to defund public education just as the age of the internet begins and the opportunity to become informed or disinformed expands logarithmically. Being disinformed may seem like more fun?
 

fooferdoggie

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another trump supporter caught this is their store front
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