What are everyone's thought on Vaccine Passports.

Herdfan

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I figure they are coming. In one form or another.

Did a search for them, but didn't find anything, so @Eric if there is another thread, please delete this one.
 

Eric

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I figure they are coming. In one form or another.
I'm 100% for it. I have both a photo of my card and a QR code generated from my state in a Note on my iPhone. People want to feel safe and that's why I think many restaurants are doing it on their own (at least here in CA) without Government intervention.

Did a search for them, but didn't find anything, so @Eric if there is another thread, please delete this one.
Let's leave this, it's a topic that stands on its own.
 

SuperMatt

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I’m all for it as well. Every big sporting event should require them, starting with the NFL and NASCAR. That out to catch a lot of people who might not get it otherwise. Movie theaters should require it.

It should absolutely be required for all flights, trains, any long-distance transportation where you’re close to others.

The people who care more about their personal freedom than about the health of others they are endangering can stay home and not participate in events with the rest of the community.
 

Eric

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Another one pro vaccine passport. Mine are already digital in my UCLA health app. Pull it up and show it on my phone - no biggy.
Easy peasy - and to think I was worried it would lead to Marxist troops marching down my street to take my guns but it turns out not.
 

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As a temporary measure until the pandemic is at a less dire level, sure. Daily deaths from COVID are still too high for everything to "go back to normal" and we need to do what we can to prevent this disease from spreading.

But I don't think this should set a precedent for a future policy of showing vaccination information to participate in society.
 

lizkat

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As a temporary measure until the pandemic is at a less dire level, sure. Daily deaths from COVID are still too high for everything to "go back to normal" and we need to do what we can to prevent this disease from spreading.

But I don't think this should set a precedent for a future policy of showing vaccination information to participate in society.

Yeah there's a "papers, please" aspect to it that is prospectively unnerving. But we wouldn't be at the point where some entities (private or public) demand proof of vaccination, if so many people hadn't been bamboozled by the GOP into politicizing a public health issue to begin with.

There was some resistance to the polio vaccine back in the 50s after it became available, but that didn't take on a partisan cast, even though Truman used to call for "mobilization against polio" and it certainly didn't end up with people getting into shouting and shoving matches over how schools or community swimming pools or whatever handled the situation.

But then that was a time of less questioning of authority, and not everything about that was wonderful either. I remember my sister coming home from the local park's swimming pool in tears one summer because the pool administrator wouldn't let her swim unless she "scrubbed her knees better" in the pre-swim showers. The poor girl had already scrubbed her knees until they practically bled, and what the admin was looking at was scars from removal of embedded gravel in her knees when she'd gone head over handlebars riding her bike at an angle across railroad tracks one day the previous autumn. But my parents didn't try to override the admin's decision, they just shrugged and took us to a nearby bay off Lake Ontario for a swim more often.

Today I can imagine the average mother going up there to that pool and handing the admin a piece of her mind over something like that. Back then my mom, like a lot of other moms in the neighborhood, relied on the "wait until your father gets home" approach to interactions of a child with the larger community. I still can't envision my parents buying into an anti-vax gig though.
 

Alli

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I see no problem with it. I carried one with me until I was in my 20’s. Showed all my immunizations from childbirth. Required for entry into every school I went to.

The “papers, please” rhetoric is absurd. Nobody is going to stop you at a traffic light and demand your vaccine passport. It will be your choice to not attend sporting events, entertainment, bars, or restaurants.
 

SuperMatt

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I see no problem with it. I carried one with me until I was in my 20’s. Showed all my immunizations from childbirth. Required for entry into every school I went to.

The “papers, please” rhetoric is absurd. Nobody is going to stop you at a traffic light and demand your vaccine passport. It will be your choice to not attend sporting events, entertainment, bars, or restaurants.
You need ID to buy alcohol. You need ID to vote. You need a license and proof of insurance and auto registration to drive. You need a passport to travel… You have to take off your belt and shoes and let them go through your luggage and get body-scanned to board a flight… But OMG… let’s whine and cry about having to prove vaccination status?

Free-dumb.
 

MEJHarrison

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I've got a picture of mine on my phone and would love something even easier. If I ever do get asked for it, it might take a minute or two to find. It's in my favorites, but to be honest, it just took me a minute or two to find where they'd moved Favorites to. So point proved. I'd love to see something universal in the Health app.

I have no problem with a passport being required. And I'm almost certain my job is requiring all employees to be vaccinated (I work in healthcare). I suspect it's company wide, but it might just apply to those who work directly with patients. But that's not how we do things where I work. For years, part of my review was if I followed proper hygiene procedures like washing my hands after using the restroom. To be clear, I'm a computer programmer working for the health insurance part of the company. We're even a separate entity, just under the umbrella of the larger company. Still, I got my vaccination back in January with the doctors and nurses. So I'm guessing it will be required. That's just how we roll.

I figure they are coming. In one form or another.

Just for kicks, what are your thoughts beyond they're probably coming? You've almost certainly giving this topic more thought than I have, and you tend to see things from a different perspective than I usually do, so I'm curious what you think.
 

Herdfan

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Just for kicks, what are your thoughts beyond they're probably coming? You've almost certainly giving this topic more thought than I have, and you tend to see things from a different perspective than I usually do, so I'm curious what you think.

As noted, we have had to have proof of vaccinations for many things over our lifetimes. So from that standpoint, I have no issue with it. And if it gets us back to normal, then even better.

However, I do see an interesting divergence from the left. No ID to vote because that's bad, but you have to show a VP to vote. On some level that makes no sense and is kind of hypocritical.

As the statistic I posted in the COVID STUPID thread, only 28% of Blacks in NYC are fully vaccinated. Right now that means that 72% of them can't go into a restaurant, or a movie or many other indoor activities. The number for Hispanics is 49%. A VP will bring similar restrictions to any number of people, so it needs to be accepted that people and in some case, groups of people along racial and ethnic lines, will be prohibited from lots of aspects of living. So from this standpoint I am against it.

Would there be a situation where say a movie theater has vaxxed days and unvaxxed days? Right now I am seeing the vaxxed be given privileges the unvaxxed don't have to attend concerts or possibly even hold a job.

There has to be a better way, but there also may not be. The next couple of years are going to be rough.

An interesting history lesson here: as @lizkat noted about the Polio vaccine in the 50's, it was all the rage, but the last case of Polio wasn't until 1979.
 
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Alli

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Would there be a situation where say a movie theater has vaxxed days and unvaxxed days? Right now I am seeing the vaxxed be given privileges the unvaxxed don't have to attend concerts or possibly even hold a job.
Can you imagine the cleaning involved? If I were the theater owner I would say definitely not. The unvaxxed have made their decision.
 

Herdfan

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Can you imagine the cleaning involved? If I were the theater owner I would say definitely not. The unvaxxed have made their decision.

That's fair, but I think we have moved past the clean every surface panic.
 

Clix Pix

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Another supporter of the vaccine "passport" here, too. It just makes sense to me that it be very clear and that someone has to show proof of having been vaccinated. During that brief time in my area when masks were no longer required of those who had been vaccinated, I still wore one each time I went out to the library, grocery store, bank, wherever.....and I was always leery of those who were in the store without masks, being fully aware that there among them were going to be people who actually hadn't been vaccinated at all and who had been vehemently anti-mask. Not too hard to guess that at least some in the store/library/wherever sans mask were joyfully taking advantage of the situation, thereby putting others at risk, especially children. Now it's a moot point, as we are back to everyone being required to mask up when within buildings and such.

I have a photo of my vaccination card on my iPhone, not a big deal to show it to someone if need be, and I would have no objections to doing that. A more formal vaccine "passport" would be much better, though, an actual mandated and required entity to be shown as needed, just as if requested I pull out the driver's license as proof of my identity. That would remove any uncertainty, doubt and distrust when in various facilities and also could possibly also serve as a stimulus to get the vaccine-hesitant to the nearest site to finally get their own jabs, which would benefit them personally by providing access to desired places and protect all of us.
 

lizkat

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As noted, we have had to have proof of vaccinations for many things over our lifetimes. So from that standpoint, I have no issue with it. And if it gets us back to normal, then even better.

However, I do see an interesting divergence from the left. No ID to vote because that's bad, but you have to show a VP to vote. On some level that makes no sense and is kind of hypocritical.

As the statistic I posted in the COVID STUPID thread, only 28% of Blacks in NYC are fully vaccinated. Right now that means that 72% of them can't go into a restaurant, or a movie or many other indoor activities. The number for Hispanics is 49%. A VP will bring similar restrictions to any number of people, so it needs to be accepted that people and in some case, groups of people along racial and ethnic lines, will be prohibited from lots of aspects of living. So from this standpoint I am against it.

Would there be a situation where say a movie theater has vaxxed days and unvaxxed days? Right now I am seeing the vaxxed be given privileges the unvaxxed don't have to attend concerts or possibly even hold a job.

There has to be a better way, but there also may not be. The next couple of years are going to be rough.

An interesting history lesson here: as @lizkat noted about the Polio vaccine in the 50's, it was all the rage, but the last case of Polio wasn't until 1979.

On the voting thing I don't have a problem with ID to register, e.g. automatic registration when being issued a driver's license. But for my money signing the book at the polling place s/b good enough on election day when voting in person, signing the ballot-enclosure envelope for vote by mail likewise, and all the stuff about purging voter rolls without adequate notification is a crock. As for other forms of vote suppression, e.g. closing polling places where the vote lean is undesirable from the in-power group's point of view, and using as an excuse something like budget constraints, or trying to shut down vote by mail etc. just wrong. And that's before we get to the latest R move in some states, trying to make it possible to just override the vote if it doesn't turn out an R majority. Hope those laws, where passed, all land in court on a pre-emptive strike against a 14th amendment violation.

On the covid thing, yeah we're in uncharted territory, not least because of the mutating antics of this coronavirus and the large unvaxxed population, bad combo for ever approaching herd immunity. We may never get there. So it may end up an uglier version of annually risking flu, only with covid the price is higher. And we still have a long way to go in understanding the risks and the underlying pathways to what's called "long covid". So it's not LIKE flu. And ongoing costs to the US health system will not be like flu either.

With the polio vaccine there was far more compliance, not just because of less politicization but because of far more fear of the clearly life threatening and debilitating effect on kids in particular. Still, the disease is still not completely vanquished despite the very effective Global Polio Eradication Initiative that launched in the late 1980s. There are at least a few countries in which polio remains potentially endemic: Nigeria, Pakistan and Afghanistan. Even during the Afghanistan war the effort has continued and made progress. A snapshot from May 2021 is up on the GPEI website now. 712k Afghan children were vaccinated in just that month. The rural outreach has been energetic but terrain, climate and political instability remain negative factors.


Not sure what the world will have say to us --nothing complimentary!!-- if polio pops up again in the USA, which is unlikely but possible. We need to find a way to educate effectively anew about vaccinations before we have to learn the costs of ignorance at the school of hard knocks. We're absolutely not used to the ravages of diseases against which most US kids have routinely been vaccinated for decades and decades.
 

MEJHarrison

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As the statistic I posted in the COVID STUPID thread, only 28% of Blacks in NYC are fully vaccinated. Right now that means that 72% of them can't go into a restaurant, or a movie or many other indoor activities.

Of that 72%, a full 100% of them of them can get the shot, for free. So, either that's a group who won't be having many nights out with a dinner and a movie due to bad choices they've made, or it's a group that isn't getting proper access to the vaccine and that should be corrected ASAP.

I wouldn't allow vaccination hesitancy to hold back any public health measures designed to protect society as a whole. If that means a bunch of people can't go to a restaurant, then that's how that's going to play out I guess. And I'm ok with that. They keep going on about how this is their choice. This is what happens when you make the wrong choice. They've rejected every reasonable attempt to get them to do the right thing and in my opinion, they deserve to stand on the sidewalk watching the rest of us inside enjoying our meals.
 

Chew Toy McCoy

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As noted, we have had to have proof of vaccinations for many things over our lifetimes. So from that standpoint, I have no issue with it. And if it gets us back to normal, then even better.

However, I do see an interesting divergence from the left. No ID to vote because that's bad, but you have to show a VP to vote. On some level that makes no sense and is kind of hypocritical.

As the statistic I posted in the COVID STUPID thread, only 28% of Blacks in NYC are fully vaccinated. Right now that means that 72% of them can't go into a restaurant, or a movie or many other indoor activities. The number for Hispanics is 49%. A VP will bring similar restrictions to any number of people, so it needs to be accepted that people and in some case, groups of people along racial and ethnic lines, will be prohibited from lots of aspects of living. So from this standpoint I am against it.

Would there be a situation where say a movie theater has vaxxed days and unvaxxed days? Right now I am seeing the vaxxed be given privileges the unvaxxed don't have to attend concerts or possibly even hold a job.

There has to be a better way, but there also may not be. The next couple of years are going to be rough.

An interesting history lesson here: as @lizkat noted about the Polio vaccine in the 50's, it was all the rage, but the last case of Polio wasn't until 1979.

i don’t have an issue with requiring an ID to vote. I honestly don’t see what the big hurdle is in getting one, but if it’s poverty reasons and you have to be a citizen to vote, I can’t think of a valid reason an ID for those people shouldn’t be provided for free. Do you have an issue with that?

I could be wrong, but I think some states already do and it’s probably a safe bet that it’s not the states that are actively piling on more restrictive and right favoring voting laws.
 

Herdfan

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i don’t have an issue with requiring an ID to vote. I honestly don’t see what the big hurdle is in getting one, but if it’s poverty reasons and you have to be a citizen to vote, I can’t think of a valid reason an ID for those people shouldn’t be provided for free. Do you have an issue with that?

I could be wrong, but I think some states already do and it’s probably a safe bet that it’s not the states that are actively piling on more restrictive and right favoring voting laws.
No issue at all. We can even have mobile ID vans to go around and make sure people have one.



On the voting thing I don't have a problem with ID to register, e.g. automatic registration when being issued a driver's license. But for my money signing the book at the polling place s/b good enough on election day when voting in person, signing the ballot-enclosure envelope for vote by mail likewise, and all the stuff about purging voter rolls without adequate notification is a crock. As for other forms of vote suppression, e.g. closing polling places where the vote lean is undesirable from the in-power group's point of view, and using as an excuse something like budget constraints, or trying to shut down vote by mail etc. just wrong. And that's before we get to the latest R move in some states, trying to make it possible to just override the vote if it doesn't turn out an R majority. Hope those laws, where passed, all land in court on a pre-emptive strike against a 14th amendment violation.

I think opposing Motor Voter by the GOP was a failure. If you register to vote when you get a license, then no one can say people don't have ID.
 
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